Forums for estranged adult children

IssendaiAcolyte

I feel like it's only natural to be biased towards the child due to the inherent power imbalance in a parent/child relationship.

For starters, the child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place.

"The child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place" is a familiar talking point on EAC forums, and is often alternatively expressed as "We didn't ask to be born, therefore we don't owe our parents anything". It's also a thought-stopping cliché, rather like "It is what it is" or "Everything happens for a reason", which are generally used to end conversations or maintain control in arguments.

You might be interested in the following discussion of the phrase on The Philosophy Forum:

www.thephilosophyforum.com/t/we-didnt-ask-to-be-born-therefore-we-dont-owe-our-parents-anything/422

Most of the philosophers were not amused. Still, it is what it is...

Possibly natural but not helpful for a sensible discussion when the bias is so apparent.

I feel like it's only natural to be biased towards the child due to the inherent power imbalance in a parent/child relationship.

For starters, the child never consented to be in the relationship in the first place.

Do you have any comments regarding my post @ 11.27 and DogWhisperer's post @ 10.33?

That's very interesting IA not the link as I wont be opening it, but that it's about children being raised by narcissists. I'm guessing you find parents being labelled acceptable even though in the previous link you provided, if parents label their children as narcissists it isn't.

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There is nothing inherently bad about sharing your experiences online in an anonymous forum. I have once again looked at that forum today and found no issues with what the users are doing.

It seems like an incredibly large forum in general with that topic actually having relatively few visitors and so not unbelievable that they all had abusive parents or were unhappy in the relationship

Looking further there are also much larger topics for those with abusive marriages that use much the same language. Are we to judge them in the same way? Or would that be easier to do if we felt a marriage partner had left the relationship unfairly?

I think it is really important to take these situations on their own merit, so we can be there fully for our own friends and family if they experience similar troubles without inserting our own pain into it instead.

DogWhisperer

In my previous life I used to be a lawyer, and I learned very early on that if you go into court thinking your client is whiter than white and the other side is blacker than black, you are likely to come out of court thinking something rather different! Of course there are two sides to every story, but unfortunately I don't think the youngsters on the estranged kids' forums have got that memo yet.

Purplepixie, I feel for you because we are in the same position. Six years ago, our daughter estranged herself without warning and without giving a reason, and she has only communicated with us once in all that time, which was to ask for her passport (which we sent her).

My heart goes out to you both

I know I can be a difficult human at times, too quick to make blunt comments when I should stay quiet, my DM was the same and that didn’t make for a completely harmonious relationship.

I know have two AD who can be extremely challenging and still living at home.

There’s always another side and as our dear late Queen stated “one’s recollections may differ”

Just seen your post DogWhisperer. The bias I detected is confirmed with I'm biased toward the children.

An interesting link IA; thank you.

I agree with what a lot was said about EP forums when they're closed and only EP's are permitted to join as I've experienced a couple myself. I can't comment on closed forums for EAC as for obvious reasons, I've never been on any.

GN isn't a closed forum so we have EP's, EGP's and EAC all posting and not everything that's been said about forums for EP's/ECP's happens here.

If you were in any way familiar with this estrangement forum, you would know that assisting with problem solving isn't secondary to providing emotional support, and that applies equally to all regardless of whether they've been estranged or are the estranger.

Any knowledge of the estrangement forum here on GN would demonstrate that probing questions are asked and that on the whole posters do not take cues from others reactions. When this has and does happen here it's more often than not the cues from the reaction of someone expressing anger and disapproval of EP's in general are taken from others who share that anger and disapproval.

Some times this comes from other EAC; sometimes from those estranged from parents-in-law and sometimes from those with no personal experience of estrangement.

There are references to narcissism but references to 'gas lighting', DARVO, FOG and other over and often misused 'psychological' terms, are seen here to come from EAC a lot more than from EP's..

The reference to disinheriting from wills did not take into account that there are some EAC who wouldn't wish to inherit from their parents; something we've seen articulated here on GN.

GP's don't have any rights to see their GC; a misnomer so often repeated here on GN despite countless discussions. If GP's are allowed by the courts to apply for visitation it is the children's rights that are being considered; the rights of children to know their extended family.

We have unfortunately seen the vulgar language some EAC use here, either from those posting it themselves or from those producing links usually from Reddit. That is by no means focusing on it, it's something we rarely if ever see from EP's here on GN and not something I saw on the couple of closed forums for EP's I was a member of.

What have you seen that would substantiate your ^feeling (that our) children have expressed discontent in the relationship prior to estrangement (that we, EP's) chose to completely ignore?

I wonder if this were a thread started by an EAC if you would express a feeling that some had not expressed their discontent in the relationship, but had as I and others here have experienced, been estranged with no reason given or for 'reasons' that simply aren't true.

As I said at the beginning of this post, I have no experience of closed forums for EAC that said, I found the link's bias toward EAC unhelpful and a lot of what was written about EAC's 'positive and mature' approach to estrangement has not always been my experience of their contributions to this forum.

What has been helpful and uplifting are the mutually respectful and supportive conversations that have taken place over the years between some EAC and EP's, here on GN.

As is my experience and the experiences of other EP's, children maybe born hard-wired to love and follow their parents but not all adult children do so and those are the ones who will estrange the non abusive parents who love them.

IssendaiAcolyte

There's a blog post from someone who recreationally researched both Estranged Parents & Estranged Children forums.

issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/estranged-parents-forums-vs-estranged-adult-childrens-forums/

The findings are antithetical to what DogWhisperer claims, and in my anecdotal experience I would have to agree with the blog post on this topic.

Also, I find it amusing that estranged parents would rather focus on the vulgar language instead of even beginning to wonder about the cause for such profanity. As if estranged children are all just a bunch of drunken sailors utterly incapable of decorum or sound reasoning.

I have a feeling your children have expressed discontent in the relationship prior to estranging, but you chose to completely disregard it because you still viewed them as little children or viewed their reasons (such as voting for trump) to not be a real reason even worthy of consideration.

All children are born hard-wired to love and follow their parents. Their survival hinges on it until they grow older and wiser.

It's an interesting blog post which I read with care, but unfortunately it shows too many signs of "confirmation bias", that is to say, the tendency to look for and recall information that confirms one’s pre-existing beliefs while disregarding contradictory evidence. We are all guilty of it to some extent, including you, me and the anonymous blogger "Issendai". In fact, Issendai herself admits on another page of her blog that "I’m biased toward the children":

issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/which-parents-are-abusive/

I don't recognise a lot of her claims at all, for example, her claim that in estranged children's forums "Commenters frequently ask probing questions, request further details, and challenge inconsistencies in other members’ accounts." In the overwhelming majority of cases, commenters appear to accept the original poster's claims as fact, dismiss any parental contradictions as "gaslighting" or "manipulating", and encourage the original poster to estrange or continue the estrangement, regardless of how serious or trivial the reason.

InRainbows

No one here would be very happy were they saying the same about us. I find it a little unsettling that we can't treat people as individuals who deserve a space to be supported too. How is it anyone's business but theirs?

If you mean people saying "there are two sides to every story", then yes I think people on here would be happy about it, because this is a principle which is at least 2,500 years old and forms the basis of all Western law, philosophy and politics. The ancient Romans had a Latin phrase for it, "Audi alteram partem" which means literally "Hear the other side". That phrase is still taught to law students today. But the Romans weren't the first to think of it; they borrowed it from the even more ancient Greeks before them. We ignore it at our peril.

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DogsWhisperer I got trolled by my daughter in law on GN June 2020 on the original thread I joined in 2019 after my house sale fell through. The children always knew what my username is as it's what my husband called me . She posed as a nan and said what had happened to me her grandson had read something on Reddit and thinks it was my daughter in law. My pain levels where high so instead of my taking no notice of suspicious names suddenly appearing I clinked on the link . I was staying with my daughter and family while having lot of work done on my bungalow which meant I couldn't stay here .

After couple of sentences realised yes it was my daughter in law burst into tears and handed my phone to my daughter. My daughter thought it was hilarious especially the description of my daughter being unemployable. Before she had my grandson she was in charge of 4 campus management teams at a university with a million pounds budget . Most my daughter in law did was work in a shop. Nothing wrong in that I have done than and other jobs.

My daughter in law had been writing about for over a year before I moved closer to both couples . Well 40 mins in a car from my son and family and used to be 15 mins from my daughter and family but they moved closer to me before their eldest started school as there was a school they wanted him in . Both of their boys go there now .

For all my daughter in law wrote about me it was one sentenced that killed the love I had for her she put FIL died to get away from MIL'. She never knew my husband and knew he died in agony from cancer . I thought how wicked to write such a thing about the father of the man she loves.

The replies to her posts were vicious about me . But I never engaged with her.

Funny thing is both couples wanted me to move closer to then as I lived over 100 miles away. I was born disabled and at the time of my son sending me the email estranging me he knew I was waiting for further tests on my heart as they found a problem . But what hurt me the most was realising my son is a cruel coward as he was with me on my birthday 4 days before the email. He should have had the guts to say everything to my face. Then I could have put him right in his rewriting of family history and his assumptions of things I did. He sent his sister an email . But she didn't care as unknown to me they hadn't had anything to do with eachother for 5 years but when I was with them they all behaved. My son not only estranged me but all our side of the family . My brother said what the 🦆🦆🦆🦆 did I do. He wanted to go round and in his words bitch slap that wife if his and sort my son out. But I told him to leave it. I have 3 grandson's with then I knew the oldest 2 and they where 4&2 last time I saw them . Their brother was due July 2020 but I don't know his name or exact date of birth.

But I am glad I have had silence from them be 6 years end of this month since I last saw or spoke to my son. Had a kind and loving son for 32 years but he is a stranger and I am no longer the mom he knew.

And to be honest I don't want to see him ever again. I still love him and my grandsons that will never change . But I have no room for them in my life now. If my grandsons do find me when they are older then I will not hold back about their parents and my foolish son who put a time limit on his email which disappeared last year . It still exists as I have a copy so does my solicitor.

Estrangement seems an easy way out for adult children and grandchildren instead of facing their problems. Just blame everything on parents . Instead of facing their own short comings.

I hated my in laws. But looked after my mother in law for 11 years after my husband died even though she told people she didn't have a son or grandchildren and refused to go too their weddings. She didn't have any form of dementia. She was just a vile woman. I was brought up not to abandon family . I could have taken the easy way out but she was still family . Plus she had me down as her emergency contact. Her brother didn't turn up until she died aged 91.

Estrangement is easy that's why so many do it instead of facing their problems.

and kids are encouraged to estrange for even the most trivial reasons. "My parents voted for Donald Trump" is a common one

First of all these are adults. Not kids, not children. Adults.
Secondly, someone who voted for Donald Trump and I do not have the same values or morals, so family or not I would certainly distance myself from them emotionally. Hardly trivial.

Regarding swearing, if it’s allowed on a forum, who cares? Not swearing doesn’t make someone a better more moral person.

No one here would be very happy were they saying the same about us. I find it a little unsettling that we can't treat people as individuals who deserve a space to be supported too. How is it anyone's business but theirs?

In my previous life I used to be a lawyer, and I learned very early on that if you go into court thinking your client is whiter than white and the other side is blacker than black, you are likely to come out of court thinking something rather different! Of course there are two sides to every story, but unfortunately I don't think the youngsters on the estranged kids' forums have got that memo yet.

Purplepixie, I feel for you because we are in the same position. Six years ago, our daughter estranged herself without warning and without giving a reason, and she has only communicated with us once in all that time, which was to ask for her passport (which we sent her).

Yes. There are two sides to every story. I’d love to hear my daughter’s side but she will not communicate. I’ve tried so hard in the past. Now I’ve given up.

Every post on GN, MN etc is one person's version of events usually manipulated to emphasise their view. How often do you read some criticism of a parent, spouse, child and wonder as I do 'What's the other side of this scenario '?

Each case is different so people should not generalise.

Where do I see what is described?

I see people talking about sadness and guilt and attempted reconciliation? Are we to judge them all en-mass? We know that abuse exists and we know it exists within families. As for swearing, well, I've been known to let the odd swearword out. Younger people have always been more inclined to swear. I'm not sure that makes anyone more likely to be a bad person really. I've heard people from all walks of life swearing and would not judge it amongst other adults who aren't offended by it.

I think it is probably the same as any forum, people you agree with and people you don't. I would prefer to get to know and understand a person on more than just one subject before judging.

Too depressing! I never put my parents through what I’ve been through with my daughter.

I know there are bad mothers out there unfortunately and equally challenging children. None of us are perfect and yet are judged and found wanting. A lot of AC just don't want the burden the parents might become and jump ship.

No it doesn't always end up in civil war Hithere. As I posted there have been "some meaningful conversations with those who have estranged where there has been mutual respect and understanding".

That sounds messed up to me too Fallingstar and if it happens here on GN the posts are removed and often those who make them.