Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Smileless2012 I'm so pleased that you have now got a companion for your other dog - that has always been the hardest part of losing a dog for me, seeing the second one grieve for them.
Last Thursday I thought we would be in the same boat as you after our 12-year-old Labrador was found to have extensive masses in her pelvis on a CT scan....but the thinking has now changed after a very clever vet spotted something different on the scan, so we are feeling more positive now, ahead of surgery for her later this week. Ovarian Remnant Syndrome...who knew???

Grandmama you have come to the right place. Took me months of sending PMs to Smiles before I could post openly . Take your time but you have taken the brave step of posting here . Estrangement has been called a living grief can't remember who first said it but it is just that. You grief for the relationship you had with your child and or grandchildren . Like us don't know why it happened. Our children made their choice and don't care how much it hurts us. But they choose to do this not us. But we can choose how long we will let them hurt us.

For you its new. I still remember those early days and not understanding why . But what hurt me most I saw my son on my birthday 4 days before his email. The realisation my son is a cruel coward hurt more than the estrangement. He should have told me to my face . But I know he couldn't have done that . He didn't just estranged me but all our side of the family. I know my daughter in law has always been jealous of my daughter and how close I was to my son . Their dad died when our daughter was 20 & son 16.

Take you time and post anything you want and ask any questions. The longevity of this thread shows how it is needed more than ever. Estranging parents and other relatives has become epidemic because they can do it via technology and don't have to face us .

Ziggy is helping you, Mr S and Poppy get over Pippin dieing . Pippin was there when you needed him most with Poppy after your estrangement. Ziggy will take you all into the future and a new member of your family to love . He will help you cope with your grief and give Poppy a new lease of life as she in a way become his mom . Can't wait to see a picture of him .

This might make you laugh did me. I posted on thread on it was A something can't remember the rest of the letters forum . But according to Barbadosbelle I am rather hard and unsympathetic person and possibly/ probably rather difficult to get on with or please. Did write it down but can't read some of my hand writing . So lovely to to be judged by a person who I have never seen post anywhere before. 🤣

Yogin hope you had a wonderful time at you all day yoga . 🧘‍♂️ My daughter goes to days like that . Also there is a retreat not far from where we live she has bern the last 2 years for a couple of days with friends she made at boxercise class when her youngest was a baby and she could take him with her . He started school in September but the moms kept in touch .
Hard to believe they break up this week for summer hols.
Must remember to ask if she is doing it this year.

Yogin why are you sorry you have nothing to be sorry about . Your suggestion of a stick was kind you didn't know I had been using one for a long time . I call it my third leg. Children do ask me why I have it and explain I woukd fall without it . Then say if I fall could you help me up they say no. The faces on parents is funny but I always talk to children . I have faced disabled discrimination at high school and as an adult. If children are educated about any visible or invisible disabilities from an early age they won't become bigoted adults. I have both visible and invisible disabilities which I was born with . But I am just me .

Anyway better get up as move it or lose class this morning . It was baking yesterday afternoon for sit fit but 10 of us still turned up .
Going to be another hot day take care everyone .

Had a fantastic day yesterday; went to an all-day Yoga festival with friends.

Sorry Whiffs

Need to jump in shower and then take Joey for his walkies for the first time at a normal midmorning time since this heatwave early morning dash!

Enjoy your first walkies with Ziggy Smiles

Grandmama Welcome.

In my experience, doing nothing is the best bet, act as if nothing is wrong. I did the opposite and regret it 13.5yrs on. Best of luck xx

Morning all

Came on today just to hear about your new puppy Smiles sounds like he is settling just in fine. If Mr.S sends the picture to you or you take the picture, then he can upload from your devise. It is easy to do though, just hit on 'choose file' below, your mobile pics will come up, then press 'open' on the one you want to send, you have to then write something then press 'post message' and it will come up with your post. Good luck with new puppy and posting xx

Awh, clever Ziggy, he has found a lovely home, hope he settles well.

Yogin I have walked with a walking stick since I was 29. Spent years until the children got older in a wheelchair when we went out together. Used it from 1988 our daughter was 4 years abd son 6 months old. My husband had wheelchair rage anyone cut in front of me he hit them. It was then I realised you become invisible when in a wheelchair. People would ask my husband what I want which enraged him and said as my wife or can't you see her. I was 19st in those days .

I still use my stick even to go to the bins but still fall. HPX is the gift that keeps giving .

To tired and to hot too write more.

Thank you, Smileless2012.

I am so envious Smileless, there is nothing like a little puppy taking over the place, I bet Poppy can’t understand where he has popped up from.

We are all here for you if and when you want to open up Grandmama .

Just a quickie from me, we're home with tiny Ziggy and he is really small. He's eaten and done his first wee . Oh, he's just done a pooh and both on the training pad - besotted puppy owner or what!!!

I'll ask Mr. S. to send a pic but last time he couldn't as he has to log on as me on his I Pad and last time he tried, it wouldn't let him.

Good morning Gransnetters. I'm struggling myself at the moment but don't feel able yet to open up on here, hoping the unexpected and puzzling 'No Contact' with me will be short lived. I've been reading the posts on here and on Relationships to see how you manage to cope and live with losing loved family members. The stories have moved me very much and given me strength so to you all flowers and love. I'll post this on Relationships as well.

Good to hear you had a good holiday with your brother Whiff and that you met up with an old school friend, how did that go? Think you should consider a walking stick to stop you falling so much. xx

Morning all

Little cooler today, we took a walk on the beach this morning at 7am, it was lovely, walked a bit further as son with us.

Joey did enjoy his cool bath Smiles but he isn't normally keen. You are very kind & thoughtful with your little dog Poppy, I would be the same. So, you are getting a little puppy! It will be wonderful for you all and will help Poppy move forward after your loss. Best of luck today

You make some good points Dogwhisperer - especially about taking time before responding. It’s all theoretical but I think is really good to have thought it through just in case.
Whiff you remain an inspiration in the way you managed to move house to a new area and build a meaningful and full life with new friends.
Smiles…..how exciting!! A new puppy will more than make up for the disappointments on holiday 😊 Another yes to photos please!

We expect photos Smileless 🤗

Spring 20 said: I wonder from time to time how I’d feel if they ever chose to reach out again. I genuinely don’t know.

I'm wrestling with exactly the same thing. Our daughter chose to estrange herself 6 years ago with no warning or explanation, and I am now very ambivalent about whether I want her back in my life again. I know reconciliations don't always go well and you can never turn the clock back to how things were before. I've decided that what I should do if she gets in touch is:

Wait at least 24 hours before replying. It's best not to reply in haste and regret at leisure.

Discuss it with my wife before replying, because this is something we must jointly decide on.

Initially be friendly but cautious and hear what she has to say.

Set boundaries, including: no social media talk ("you're toxic / narcissistic / manipulative etc") and no financial abuse ("I don't want a relationship but I want your money").

Be prepared to walk away if necessary, on the basis that no relationship at all is better than a bad relationship.

Smikes I am so glad you are going to have a puppy. You and Mr S have years ahead of you plus the puppy will give Poppy something to fuss over and love . The puppy will help all 3 of you.

I will never reconcile with my son. No point as I could never trust him . My life is full and I will not change it. If my grandsons do track me down in years to come by the time I have told them what their parents did not since the estrangement but before then they will never want to see me again . I can live with that.

Everyday the rage and anger I feel over my husband dieing gets me doing all the things I do. I us it as a positive emotion .
As my dad always said not such word as can't.

It was 35° here yesterday in Sleaford. Went to Hornchurch after having my brothers meet up with a friend of his but also old class mate of mine . Saw him last year for the first time last year first time since we where 16. He will be 68 soon.

Had to cut our visit to Hornchurch and the heat was making everything worse.
Went to Bomber command on Wednesday. The heat is effecting my sister in law with her MS and her dad, my adopted dad.

Funny enough even in this hot weather I always have the shower on hot. It eases my joints .

Hope Joey enjoyed his bath. Aggie had one to but not happy. But she did like being cooler.

Going home today . At least the trains are air conditioned. Glad I brought my cotton tunics . Had a wonderful time but always nice to go home. Hopefully next month when I go away again it won't be so hot .

Be glad to have my eyes tested Wednesday and I know i need new glasses as I can see walking in my reading ones always a sign I need new ones. Sit fit and move it or lose it will be hot but still going as its part of my routine.

Had a go on my sister in laws light mobility scooter. And much to my surprise I coukd use it with ease. Don't need it for shopping but I want to go to Rimrose valley but its to far for me to walk too ,have abd wander and go home. Last year really messed with my health. Already decided when I go home I will be taking the higher dose of tablet my neurologist said I could if my body feels like I need it. Have been falling more at home last few weeks and tripping when out frightened me. I don't want to lose my independence.

Had results of my blood tests every result normal including my sodium . Yah.

My daughter said it was only 24° there yesterday still hot to me .

Saw something never seen before all the hay has been cut and going one past one field there was a mini whirlwind whirling the cut hay across part of the field. It was beautiful.

Everyone try stay cool 😎 and safe journey home.Smiles .

Evening all (I sound like Dixon of Dock Green ).

Going home tomorrow and although it's been nice to get away, nothing has gone to plan.

We went to an Italian across the road from the cottage on Tuesday evening. Hung around for about 5 minutes to make sure Poppy was OK and were out for just over an hour. As we approached the cottage coming back, we could hear her crying. Don't know if she'd heard us coming but she sounded more distressed than excited. I felt so guilty .

So we couldn't revisit the castle as that would have meant leaving her again, so yesterday just went for a run out and spent the afternoon watching tennis and using the hot tub and enjoyed an M&S dining in meal for tea.

We were looking forward to going to the gardens today as Sunday's and Thursday's they allow dogs in but it was just too hot. Mr. S. went down and asked if it would entail walking on foot paths and the young lady was very honest saying yes it did and there was very little shade. She said there were a lot of people going in with dogs but agreed with him that it was really too hot.

So a repeat of yesterday.

We decided to cancel our 6 day holiday to Hadrian's Wall as we wont be able to do anything that wont involve taking Poppy, which leaves very little to do. I 'phoned A & L to see if they were definitely planning on joining us for a few days but as they still didn't know, we cancelled.

I explained how losing little Pip has affected Poppy so we were cancelling and said we would pay anyway but bless her she said no. She was upset about Pip and said just book again, so we have for next year.

A couple of weeks ago I found some beautiful toffee coloured toy poodle pups for sale, about an hour's drive from where we live which were ready to leave mum this week, but didn't pursue it because we were coming here and due to go away next week.

You can guess what I'm going to say now can't you. I contacted the breeder, expressing interest in one of the boys and we're going to see them on Saturday. Well we wont just be seeing them, I mean you never go to look and come away empty handed do you.

We miss little Pip and everything we do without him just seems 'flat' and we're really surprised at how his loss has affected Poppy, so we're hoping that Ziggy will be a comfort for all 3 of us.

We used to wonder if our ES would ever regret his decision Spring. He acknowledged his dad a few weeks ago and may well have acknowledged me if I'd given him the opportunity to do so, but after 13.5 years I'm not sure if any regrets would make any difference TBH.

Not long into our estrangement when visiting his GM, my m.i.l., he was bemoaning the fact that they hadn't had a decent night's sleep since our first GS was born (they had his brother by then) and how they had no family support!!! That may well have been the extent of any regret.

Being able to share this nightmare journey with our DH's does help doesn't it Marg, the downside being that we see their pain as well as experiencing our own.

I don't know if I do love our GS's TBH Whiff . I know there was an initial rush of love the first time we saw the eldest but it was so long ago, I can't really remember how it felt now.

I know what you mean Yogin, the thought of reconciliation fills me with dread and now the thought of it never happening brings weirdly enough, a sense of peace.

Hope Joey enjoyed his cool bath. Poppy would hate it. To say she's not a water baby would be an understatement.

Take care everyone xxx

Morning all

Another sizzler! Went to the garden of remembrance this morning, showered and out by 7am! It was the best place to take Joey for a walk, really cool under all the trees, birds singing, I think I was the only visitor.

Yes Smiles it does feel like another life and 'was it real'.
Can't imagine reconciling after all these years now. The thought of it doesn't feel me with happiness, I would just expect lots of trouble and sadness, really don't want that again.

Joey is going to have a nice cool bath this morning, I'll be glad when this heatwave has gone, especially as it heats up so early in the morning.

Stay cool all xxx

Spring its was 6 years in May since I last saw my son or spoke to him . He choose the cruel cowards way to end our relationship via email and follow up letter in August 2020. You my have read what happened. But it wasn't just me who he cut out of their lives but all my side of the family. We had nothing to do with his dad's side since my husbands mom died.

My son was 16 when hid dad died so he knows what it is like to only have one parent. I loved the son I had for 32 years who was kind and loving . He is a stranger will be 39 next month. I decided in 2023 I never want to see him again we are strangers . I can never forgive or forget what he and my daughter in law put me through before the estrangement. He made his choice .

I am not the mom he knew . I love the son I knew but have no love for him now. My 3 grandsons are strangers and either been told I don't care or are dead. But if they do want to find me when older that's their choice.

I am happy and live my life to the full . I have zero tolerance for bad behaviour from anyone.

I see my daughter and 2 grandsons every 2 weeks occasionally each week. But both the boys have active social life . My daughter laughs the boys and me have a better social life than she does.

I love my grandsons but don't know them. Last time I saw the oldest 2 they where 4&2 don't even know the name and exact date of birth of their brother.

I am lucky my daughter and family love and care about me. I am not a bad mom . My son made his choice I made mine. I don't hate my son or daughter in law. But they have turned into my in laws and I hated them. My husband never liked his parents but loved them. I hated my mother in law for 40 years but still looked after her for 11 years after my husband died even thought she denied she never had a son or had 2 grandchildren . She refused to go too their weddings.

I could have estranged her but didn't that's not me . I was brought up with strong sense of family. She put me down as her emergency contact as she knew I woukd help. Saw her every week. He own brother only turned up after she was dead.

We all have a moral code we live by. I treat people how I want to be treated and hopefully help people with my life experience.

If my son throught he coukd break me far to late I broke in 2004 when my husband died. But am living the life my husband wanted for me but only the last 7 years next month before I moved to the nort west. Before that I existed had no life as had both parents and mother in law dependant on me. Mom was last to die in 20217.

I live for the now and future the past has gone ..I decided when I moved here never to go back . I move forward and am happy with my life as it is. Lot to look forward to this year and next.
🫂

We found ourselves wondering tonight if our EC 13 years on ever regretted their action, regretted having taken such an extreme decision. At their request we have honoured their desire for no contact, but have other children and now gc whose lives we are very much involved in. Our EC knows this (from their siblings who they are in occasional contact with). At a time in our life now when we have more free time, we have family holidays together, happily help out with childcare, and are fortunate to be able to treat them from time to time. We’ve accepted things are what they are with our EC and their family. They chose for their own reasons to walk away, but it doesn’t stop us wondering from time to time if they miss being part of the larger family, and the general celebratory life events that happen….weddings, birthdays, new additions to the family etc. A lot is sacrificed, that presumably couldn’t have been imagined at the time of choosing to estrange. Without intending to sound patronising I do wonder if a decade or so on the older, more mature person they are now would make the same decision. I know we have changed over the years, and are (I believe/hope) more compassionate to ourselves and others.
Like others have said though, I’m also at the stage of recovery where life is mostly calm and good. I wonder from time to time how I’d feel if they ever chose to reach out again. I genuinely don’t know. I think fear would be the dominant emotion, fear of undoing the years of recovery after feeling completely devastated and worthless. (I trust this gives hope to those of you more recently estranged that the strong emotions do eventually subside and it is possible to make peace with what has happened).
Happy hols to those of you going away/already away. We’re here for the summer but hopefully will have a break in October.

Marge 75, I know it must be as hard for your husband too. Glad mine missed it but how I wish he were here never the less.

Allsorts I hear you and yes I do have DH. He misses his son very much. (Hugs to you).

Spring20 I'm sometimes sad and I think about him for a while, going back over what's happened. Mostly I get on with my life, I don't feel any love though, like you say, how can you love a stranger. It definitely wasn't social media all those years ago but it was a very strong influence in his life which left us on the outside. Knowing the person he was I know that one day he'll be devastated at what he has done but it'll be too late. On a lighter note, we have a wonderful daughter and granddaughter.

Morning everyone.

I don't know to what extent or any that our ES was influenced by social media Spring; any influence would have come from his wife.

I don't know if 13.5 years ago estrangement was being discussed on social media as much as it is now, if at all. It's not something we and I suspect any of us, would have looked into if not for our own estrangements.

I think we'll all experience triggers from time to time, I know we do even though I'm not sure I love our ES anymore. As you say how can you love someone who is now a stranger. On the rare occasions I do think about him, it's like looking back on a life and relationship that because it no longer exists, I find myself questioning if it ever was real.

How can something so wonderful which it was, turn into something so awful, which is what it's become.

Not wanting anything to do with our ES isn't about forgiveness or anger Whiff, it's about fear. The fear of being in a position to be hurt again because I honestly don't think I'd recover of it happened again, and don't think Mr. S. would either.

Hope you enjoyed the Phil.

We arrived at Alnwick yesterday, back to the cottage we stayed in last year and unlike last year, have swimming costumes so we can make use of the hot tub which we didn't know was here, which we'll do later.

Had Poppy's bed in our room last night as we weren't sure how she'd be without Pip. Keeping her with us today but hope to venture out this evening for a meal. Everything's within walking distance so we wont be out for long and we'll hang around for 5 minutes to make sure she's OK. If she's crying, it will be takeaways for the duration of our stay so fingers crossed.