Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

I did contact the train company and they are confident trains will be running normal on Monday. They are working hard to find out why it happened and making sure the injured are supported.

Did you all have the severe alert on your phones. Made me jump by not into full HPX mode. Took me a few minutes to find where the noise was coming from then saw my phone flashing . My daughter text me straight away to check I was ok just as I was texting her I was ok. She had her phone in a bum pocket and didn't realise what was happening. You know me . I said a bad case of farting to which she replied with lots of rolling laughter faces.

Hope little Zizzy and Poppy where ok when the alert sounded ?

Yogin hope Joey was ok with the alert ? Can't remember having had one before. Hopefully all going well meeting Babs for lunch on Thursday in Lewes. As a family they are going through a lot at the moment as you most likely know. But like I told her family comes first . If we can't meet I will go next year. Even though the thought of the escalators and tube are daunting I know I will get help from tube assistance staff.

Hope everyone else was ok when the alert went off and any pets where ok. But we should have had a warning it was going to happen . I know my HPX group where effected some had full on episode others like me jumped but not just them but family members who haven't got it.

Smiles and Mr S becareful where you live . With your lovely surroundings and golf course near by it will only take a tiny spark to start a fire. I have a park and wildlife reserve near me plus farm land is only 15 mins away on the bus . My daughter at the end of her road is a large farmers field where the. 1&2 million pound houses are .

Please take extra care everyone its going to be very hot again .

Yes, it's frightening isn't it Whiff; the speed these fires spread means they are soon out of control.

Hopefully everything will have been sorted by Monday but you're right about contacting the train company to see if there's anything they can tell you.

Anyone seeing the about the fire near Stourbridge golf course I used to live 10 mins away in the car. There is a huge wooded area the otherside of the pub my husband and friends drank it . I called them 'the old gits drinking club. 'My husband was the youngest by 20 years.

Then the train crash near Lewes guess who is going on Monday for 5 days . Will have to phoned the train company and see what the arrangements are as 4 carriages derailed and multiple injuries.
And don't know how long the track will be closed for . But I will still get there .

I posted so I didn't lose it as it took me 2 hours to write.

Like Allsorts said there is no such thjng as normal . We are all unquie . Those with the same gene mutation letters and numbers have things that are unquie to us. There are several gene mutation letters and numbers but it's a gene mutation in our brain receptors. Luckily I have the one my parents had to be carriers had 50/50 chance of having a child with it . I have it but not a carrier for it so my children and grandsons are fine. My brother doesn't have it nor a carrier. But there are 3 that if a person has it they are also a carrier so it means they pass it on to their children.

IntoTheEther you do not sound like a pity party you are hurt. Reading your 2nd post . Not speaking to her grandad for 7 years is awful. My sister in law unless she texts her sons they never bother with her. And they never contact their granddad he will be 94 this week. My brothers chidren treat her better than her own. If anyone should estranged their mom its my nephew and 2 nieces by my brother's 2nd wife she has always been a nightmare and still is . My husband couldn't stand the sight of her but was never treated badly as she was family.

Have to go . Will be back have move it or lose it class this morning and need to get up.

Just realised I haven't posted for a while so pages behind again. I really don't know where time goes.

IntoTheEther glad you found this thread. No one wants to become estranged unfortunately it seems to become a weapon to use against family members especially to parents .

We all come to a point when we decide estrangement with child / children or grandchildren to give up . Took me 3 years to decide I never want to see or speak to my son ever again . We are strangers . I have no idea who he is now and I am definitely not the mom he knew. He sent the email in May 2020 and up to 2023 contacted him 3 times via text . One for bank details as I sold my husband's number plate in 2021 as he left to the children in his will. Had been holding on to it since 2004. Neither wanted it on their cars. My brother contacted via email and after 4 days he didn't reply so I got very mad and knowing he would be at work at 4am sent him a text send me his bank details by 6pm or lose the money . In hindsight wish I had said 9am. He send them at 9.30 am but what hurt was he put thank you . After all the crap he wrote in his email he had the nerve to put thank you . Should say I moved here 7 years on Sunday to live closer to my children . He came every week with my 2 grandsons for 7 months. He told me they got excited when they knew they where coming here .

He had told me they where expecting a 3rd son 27th July 2020. His email ended I don't like you but love you mom so give me a few months. So I did it was his birthday 13th August and second sons the same day. So I sent presents for my new grandson ,cards ,cheque and letter explaining how the cheque was to be spilt including money for my oldest grandson . It was a friendly letter no mention of the email and telling the results of my heart tests. 14th August everything came back all unopened the babies presents crushed finger marks in the wrapping paper a note hand written saying he did not want my vindictive or manipulative behaviour anywhere near my family ever again. Zero contact.

My daughter was here with her eldest and pregnant with my grandson . I don't know if I was more upset or angry. I gave the presents to give to a baby charity my daughter supports.
I have never been vindictive or manipulative in my life.

By what's apping you are only hurting yourself more you need to stop. In the past if I argued with my son we cleared the air but the arguments where always face to face and cleared up face to face . My husband died when our children where 20&16 in 2004 they knew from 2001 their dad wouldn't live 5 years. I gave him a bit of leeway for his behaviour after his dad died. But my daughter wouldn't stand for his nonsense and told him off more than me .

I had and do have disagreements with my daughter occasionally but we do it face to face and its resolved face to face and no grudges held.

As a family we all have tempers and are stubborn. My daughter and me still the same . I assume my son is as well his wife is the same . My son in law is not the sort to lose his temper at home and have known him since November 2003 never heard him swear.

My son not only cut me out of his life but all our side of the family. I know its all down to my daughter in laws jealousy especially of my daughter and how close I was with my son .

Bit confused are you married, separated or divorced ? And which children live with who? Just reading your first post so that's why I am asking . Which of your children are neurodivergent or austic? And how old are they ? Why I ask and you don't have to answer bit confused on how you family situation is?

I have friends with adult children,chidren and children or grandchildren with autism. They don't use their behaviour as an excuse for bad behaviour.

Neurodivergent has only appeared in recent years and lot use it as an excuse for bad behaviour. Neurodivergent in itself is not a diagnosis as it can cover a lot of different behaviour problems.

And before you say I don't know what I am talking about . I was born disabled have visible and invisible disabilities but didn't get diagnosed until I was 63. I have a rare hereditary neurological condition which was only detectable by whole genome genetically testing . I have a mutant gene in my brain receptors. Just thought I was weird for 63 years. First patient at my top neurological hospital in the north west to have it. My neurologist had to research it . Thanking the rare disease society put in touch with a Facebook group with it started 17 years ago by a Brit but its world wide and now hit the 1,196 members mark.

The broad spectrum of Neurodivergent could apply to us but its not what we where born with . The mutant gene is in our DNA. We all strongly reject ND label.

Morning all.

You're right Allsorts, Ziggy's definitely a feisty little character and very entertaining. He's very much like our little Pip, loves playing and is already making up his own games.

Mr. S. said he'll probably really like the cat tunnel and cat cave I bought for Pip but I'm not ready for that yet, and also want to wait until he's fully house trained and has proper bladder control.

We're relieved that the weather has cooled down as he has quite a long, thick coat and wont be able to have his first 'puppy groom' for at least 4 weeks.

I'm introducing him to a brush but he thinks it's something else to chew and play with, so have only managed a couple of brush strokes so far. No idea how Rachel will manage but she's great and will find a way.

Thanks Allsorts and your right about our pets giving us so much love, so pleased to see us when we get home. x

I think an awning would be a very good idea, I would not be able to get the thing up though. Dogs and cats have so much love to give and accept us how we are. Uncomplicated unlike children. Little Ziggy seems a feisty little character and tgerexwill be no shortage of dog sitters.

Lovely to hear about your doggie's progress Smiles I chuckled when you said about him attacking your feet .

Thinking of getting an awning, has anyone else got one?

Nice day everyone xx

Morning all, hope you're all OK.

It was awful here yesterday, hot and it felt as if there wasn't enough oxygen in the air.

Little Ziggy is doing really well. He didn't wake up the first time until 4.30 am this morning which surprised me as he slept a lot yesterday because it was so hot.

The previous two mornings he went through to 5.00 am. We've put some fake grass out on the decking and 75% of the time he toddles outside for the toilet and inside, 99% of the time he uses the training pads.

He responds to 'no' so we've all but stopped him attacking our feet; comes when we call him and if one of us has been out, he runs up to greet us .

I agree Allsorts that being on the autistic spectrum doesn't mean that someone doesn't know the difference between right and wrong.

Having that sense of relief because we're no longer embroiled in their drama and targets for their nastiness isn't something I don't think any of us thought we'd ever say Spring.

Describing the pain as being back stage instead of front stage is spot on. It takes time but I hope that for anyone reading this thread who hasn't yet reached that stage, there's hope and comfort knowing that they will get there in the end.

Thank you Allsorts. Still have ‘off days’ but they are fewer and farther between now and I bounce back from them much more quickly. Is good to be able to come on here when I need some reassurance and understanding though.

Spring, I am glad you and your husband are happy now. You cant live in that knife edge for the rest of your life.What you say is correct, most families go through some sort of tragedy, this is ours. .

We tried for 9 years sending birthday and Christmas cards and the occasional message. Apologising, asking what we could do to try and repair the relationship. Each time no response….which slowly and steadily destroyed us. Eventually we realised for our own well being we had to let go and rebuild our lives. Which we have done, and tbh living now without the constant trauma feels like a release. We are happy. Very few families get through life without some form of tragedy….estrangement is ours. It is possible to heal, or at least for the pain to become backstage rather than front stage. Our last communication with our EC was to tell them we loved them. I am content with that. As said above, we can’t influence another person’s actions. We can’t change the past. We can use the time left to us to live a good life however.

Into the Ether, I tried for at least six years, can’t remember exactly, still send cards, why i don't know, luckily both my grandchildren never forgot me and I see them. I no longer want a relationship with her, you don't treat anyone as I was never mind your mother who adored you. In time it gets easier but it is hard to accept for a long time. I am glad I tried everything or I might have regretted it. I came to the conclusion she just left me behind as her wealth increased. I might be shouted down for this but even if your d is on autistic spectrum she knows right from wrong, don't beat yourself up, we are all human, do our best and thats all you can ask of anyone.

Estrangement is often referred too as a living bereavement IntoTheEther because we grieve for and mourn the loss of the adult child whose estranged us.

You say that you used your daughter for emotional support due to the problems you were having with your son which you now see was wrong, and for which you have spent the last 19 months apologising for.

You mentioned neglect, which I understand to mean neglecting her needs when relying on her for emotional support and creating a 'glass child'; a child that is not seen/seen through, and yet you also talk of you and her father dividing your time so she wouldn't miss out on the things she wanted to do because of her brothers, while also ensuring that you had 1 to 1 time with her.

I am in no way attempting to underplay how she would have felt about and struggled with being an emotional support for you, just pointing out that there were also aspects of your parenting that were an attempt to mitigate some of the negative impact on her childhood, because of her siblings.

You didn't get everything right, no parent ever does and having listened too and taken on board what she's told you, have apologised which is all any of us can do.

My husband and I never instigated attempts to communicate with our son when he estranged us. Having received a hand written note on Christmas Eve that we were no longer a part of his and our GS's lives, I did pen a brief response.

Several months later through his brother, he requested a meeting with his father but that didn't go well due to the level of anger and bitterness he exhibited, for which there was no explanation.

Just over 3 years later when we were moving out of the area I emailed him to say 'goodbye' and assuring him that my love would always remain. His response was so vile that I simply emailed my thanks because he'd shown me that saying goodbye was the right thing to do.

It can be as you say a 'catch 22'; you can be damned if you do keep trying to make contact, and damned if you don't. She may see you failing to make contact as a sign that you don't love her but on the other hand, she may see your non acceptance of her wish for no contact by continuing to do so, as not loving her either.

You D during your row told you that she never felt she was loved by you and her father. A couple of years into our estrangement while visiting our eldest son in Aus., he told me that his brother didn't know if we loved him. I told him that if the first 27 years of his brother's life weren't evident of our love, then nothing we could do or say now could make it any plainer.

If you were to ask for my advice,it would be to send one final message to your D. Tell her you love and miss her which is why you've been continually whatsapping, but you realise you shouldn't have been because for her sake and your own, you need to accept her decision. So that is what you're going to do and why you'll no longer try contacting her again in the future.

It wont be easy but IMO this should also include birthday cards and cards at Christmas. We have seen estranging adult children here on GN, saying how they dread getting a card from the parent(s) they've estranged when it's their birthday or at Christmas.

No contact means no contact and the only one who is in a position to change this, is the one who initiates it.

7 months is still early days although for you it will feel like a lifetime so she may change her mind, and you may have more chance of her doing so if you leave her alone to see if spending the rest of her life without her mum in it, is something she really wants .

Thank you for your kind words. 💐
They are appreciated.
My daughter is 24, 22 when we had the row.
She has only used one of those terms, parentification. But she wasn't wrong.
She was 11 when her brother was born.
He used to reverse headbutt and bite me.
I used her for emotional support looking back and that wasn't fair.
On some family holidays her father and I used to divide and conquer. He would take her to places she wanted to while I took the other two, so she didn't miss out. I did have my own 1-1 with her though.
Her father is a decent man but avoidant.
He is very rational and easy going whereas she sees me as controlling. I think that is fair but I also have tried not to be, as my father is the same.
I know she has gone NC as she needs that, and I know I should be happy that she is living her life but I am grieving someone who's not died and it is excruciating, being in limbo like that. I ought to be grateful that at least I know how she is doing. I did, do, and always will love her and so I need to let her have her peace. None of that stops it hurting and it does hurt.
I don't want to trigger any of you so I'm sorry for asking, and please don't respond if it's too painful, but when did you all stop all attempts at communication? It feels like a catch 22. If I don't keep trying then that is evidence I don't love her as I didn't try hard enough and if I don't stop that is the evidence that I don't respect boundaries.
I am not dumb, I have read enough in the last year to know that EC see the trying as a 🚩 but would me stop trying be seen as rejection?

Hello IntoTheEther and a warm welcome to this support thread. I'm sorry that you need to be here but glad that you've found us because those of us who are estranged, know how important it is to know that you're not alone.

I understand the importance of not giving too much information in case it's identifying, but I'm wondering how old your daughter is.

You say you're guilty of neglect, parentification and creating a glass child. Are these things your daughter has accused you of or things that you've attributed to yourself, and what has her father's role been in all of this?

You say you've been co parenting for years so has her father's parenting differed to your own?

Of course I understand if you don't want to answer but a little more information would be helpful.

As you've discovered whatsapping and self flagellation isn't going to help you, and wont help your daughter either. Neither will 'swallowing down' and trying to block out the intense feelings of grief and pain that all of us who have been estranged have experienced.

You must acknowledge these feelings and vent them. If you want to cry then cry, and shout and scream 'into the ether' then do so because trying to hide and/or deny these feelings isn't healthy as many of us can attest too.

We've been estranged from our youngest son and only grand children for more that 13 years. You ask if it gets any better, well for us I think easier is a better word than better.

It's a wound that we feel is healing but will never heal completely and where it has healed, we bare the scars which will never fade.

You do not sound like pity party and never need to apologise here for expressing your grief, pain and sorrow. This is what this thread is for and why it's been here for more than 12 years, because we all need somewhere to talk and being able to talk to the only one's who can truly understand because they're also estranged, is priceless.

Take care and now that you've found us I hope you'll keep posting .

(Seven years)

Thank you for replying btw. 💐 I appreciate the contact. And your wisdom. I cannot alter how she thinks, no. And she already feels like a stranger now. Which makes it harder. But the whatsapping and self flagellation isn't helping me come to terms with the loss. I know 19 months is early days but she hasn't spoken to her grandfather in seven, so I have little hope she'll ever talk to me again. I am sorry. I know I sound like a pity party.

Autistic, sorry. And I don't think she does know I care. In our row, she said she'd never felt loved by either of us. Which was said in anger but also hard to hear.
She lives alongside her father, like ships in the night. They are still talking. We have been co-parenting for years now, living apart with two sets of children, as the younger ones weren't coping in the schools where we lived. There will therefore be abandonment issues there too but she chose to stay with her father as she was happy in her school and didn't want to change to another. I am grateful he is there for her and she has at least one parent she is speaking to but it puts stress on our relationship as he cannot or will not mediate in case she does the same to him. I do not want that for either of them either.

Is not being ND processing information differently from the expected norm. I would ask who is normal? I don't know anyone who is without some issue. You would need a crystal ball or magic powers and so much patience to not do something triggering. Stop beating yourself up there's no easy answer. Stop with the What's App, she knows you care, you and your husband get on with your life and enjoy your time together.

If it sounds hard I am sorry but you cannot alter how people think just how you react.

Good evening,
I am new here. I just wanted to ask if it gets any better. Time isn't healing and all the feelings I've been trying to swallow down and block out are overwhelming. These are feelings of guilt and grief.
It has been just over a year since my daughter last spoke to me, 19 months since we argued (Xmas) and 7 months since she told her father she wants nothing more to do with me.
I have spent the last 19 months apologising on WhatsApp, as she won't take my calls and asking what I can do to make amends.
I said awful things. She did too but that doesn't excuse it. I am meant to be the adult. I have reached out but she does not respond. I am guilty of neglect, parentification and creating a glass child. She hasn't said this but her two siblings are ND, I suspect she is too, and I only first saw it in her brother as it presents differently in girls. But I can't come to terms with the loss and I am making it worse by messaging into the ether. I tell her I love her or am thinking of her once a week, once a fortnight if I try really hard. As I know me whatsapping will be triggering or overstep boundaries.
When will it feel less painful? Will it ever feel less painful?
We are broken.

My brother tired 3 sorts of statins before he found the one that didn't give him muscle cramps in his legs. Funny enough its the one I am on but he has to take a higher dose as he has permanent atrial fibrillation 2 stents in his heart plus one in his brain.
I was lucky only have slight furring in my right artery and the statin is to prevent further furring and needing a stent. I would rather take the statin than have another angiography. Had no side effects from the tablets they don't interfere will all my other tablets.

People like the covid jab fall into 2 camps those pro statins and those against. I am pro anything that will keep me healthy and still able to do all the things I want . I know what my future holds but am fighting to keep my mobility for as long as I can. I got out of needing a wheelchair after years of using one. I will take anything to kept me out of one . As I do not want to be dependant on anyone especially my daughter. I know what that cost me healthwise. But I couldn't abandon those who needed me .

The people I know who came off them said they did so because of aching muscles Allsorts.

What a ridiculous thing for your friend's doctor to say Yogin . I'd have been furious.

Ziggy had his first vaccination yesterday and weighed in with a 100 gram gain ; still tiny though. I went to pay for a repeat prescription to discover to my horror that I didn't have my debit card .

I'd last used it in Tesco's on the 15th so had no idea it was missing. We went there and were told if it had been handed in, they only keep them for 24 hours before destroying them.

Back home I 'phoned the bank to cancel it and order a new one and also to check that my payment in Tesco's had been the last time it was used; it was thank goodness.

As we can't leave Ziggy yet, I went out this morning to get what I can't buy in Lidl's armed with Mr. S.'s card. Got my Tesco's shop and paid for it only to realise I'd forgotten Poppy's food, so went back to get it. Went to the self service check out which I hate using and then back to my car only to discover that I'd left the dog food behind!!!

I was so set on checking I'd not left Mr. S.'s card behind I walked off without the dog food. TBH I was relieved to get home without further incident.

How can such a tiny thing (Ziggy) be so exhausting .

Two friends went on them because doctor advised it but they both came of them after they did a bit of research. One developed muscle pains.