Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Morning all

Little cooler today, we took a walk on the beach this morning at 7am, it was lovely, walked a bit further as son with us.

Joey did enjoy his cool bath Smiles but he isn't normally keen. You are very kind & thoughtful with your little dog Poppy, I would be the same. So, you are getting a little puppy! It will be wonderful for you all and will help Poppy move forward after your loss. Best of luck today

You make some good points Dogwhisperer - especially about taking time before responding. It’s all theoretical but I think is really good to have thought it through just in case.
Whiff you remain an inspiration in the way you managed to move house to a new area and build a meaningful and full life with new friends.
Smiles…..how exciting!! A new puppy will more than make up for the disappointments on holiday 😊 Another yes to photos please!

We expect photos Smileless 🤗

Spring 20 said: I wonder from time to time how I’d feel if they ever chose to reach out again. I genuinely don’t know.

I'm wrestling with exactly the same thing. Our daughter chose to estrange herself 6 years ago with no warning or explanation, and I am now very ambivalent about whether I want her back in my life again. I know reconciliations don't always go well and you can never turn the clock back to how things were before. I've decided that what I should do if she gets in touch is:

Wait at least 24 hours before replying. It's best not to reply in haste and regret at leisure.

Discuss it with my wife before replying, because this is something we must jointly decide on.

Initially be friendly but cautious and hear what she has to say.

Set boundaries, including: no social media talk ("you're toxic / narcissistic / manipulative etc") and no financial abuse ("I don't want a relationship but I want your money").

Be prepared to walk away if necessary, on the basis that no relationship at all is better than a bad relationship.

Smikes I am so glad you are going to have a puppy. You and Mr S have years ahead of you plus the puppy will give Poppy something to fuss over and love . The puppy will help all 3 of you.

I will never reconcile with my son. No point as I could never trust him . My life is full and I will not change it. If my grandsons do track me down in years to come by the time I have told them what their parents did not since the estrangement but before then they will never want to see me again . I can live with that.

Everyday the rage and anger I feel over my husband dieing gets me doing all the things I do. I us it as a positive emotion .
As my dad always said not such word as can't.

It was 35° here yesterday in Sleaford. Went to Hornchurch after having my brothers meet up with a friend of his but also old class mate of mine . Saw him last year for the first time last year first time since we where 16. He will be 68 soon.

Had to cut our visit to Hornchurch and the heat was making everything worse.
Went to Bomber command on Wednesday. The heat is effecting my sister in law with her MS and her dad, my adopted dad.

Funny enough even in this hot weather I always have the shower on hot. It eases my joints .

Hope Joey enjoyed his bath. Aggie had one to but not happy. But she did like being cooler.

Going home today . At least the trains are air conditioned. Glad I brought my cotton tunics . Had a wonderful time but always nice to go home. Hopefully next month when I go away again it won't be so hot .

Be glad to have my eyes tested Wednesday and I know i need new glasses as I can see walking in my reading ones always a sign I need new ones. Sit fit and move it or lose it will be hot but still going as its part of my routine.

Had a go on my sister in laws light mobility scooter. And much to my surprise I coukd use it with ease. Don't need it for shopping but I want to go to Rimrose valley but its to far for me to walk too ,have abd wander and go home. Last year really messed with my health. Already decided when I go home I will be taking the higher dose of tablet my neurologist said I could if my body feels like I need it. Have been falling more at home last few weeks and tripping when out frightened me. I don't want to lose my independence.

Had results of my blood tests every result normal including my sodium . Yah.

My daughter said it was only 24° there yesterday still hot to me .

Saw something never seen before all the hay has been cut and going one past one field there was a mini whirlwind whirling the cut hay across part of the field. It was beautiful.

Everyone try stay cool 😎 and safe journey home.Smiles .

Evening all (I sound like Dixon of Dock Green ).

Going home tomorrow and although it's been nice to get away, nothing has gone to plan.

We went to an Italian across the road from the cottage on Tuesday evening. Hung around for about 5 minutes to make sure Poppy was OK and were out for just over an hour. As we approached the cottage coming back, we could hear her crying. Don't know if she'd heard us coming but she sounded more distressed than excited. I felt so guilty .

So we couldn't revisit the castle as that would have meant leaving her again, so yesterday just went for a run out and spent the afternoon watching tennis and using the hot tub and enjoyed an M&S dining in meal for tea.

We were looking forward to going to the gardens today as Sunday's and Thursday's they allow dogs in but it was just too hot. Mr. S. went down and asked if it would entail walking on foot paths and the young lady was very honest saying yes it did and there was very little shade. She said there were a lot of people going in with dogs but agreed with him that it was really too hot.

So a repeat of yesterday.

We decided to cancel our 6 day holiday to Hadrian's Wall as we wont be able to do anything that wont involve taking Poppy, which leaves very little to do. I 'phoned A & L to see if they were definitely planning on joining us for a few days but as they still didn't know, we cancelled.

I explained how losing little Pip has affected Poppy so we were cancelling and said we would pay anyway but bless her she said no. She was upset about Pip and said just book again, so we have for next year.

A couple of weeks ago I found some beautiful toffee coloured toy poodle pups for sale, about an hour's drive from where we live which were ready to leave mum this week, but didn't pursue it because we were coming here and due to go away next week.

You can guess what I'm going to say now can't you. I contacted the breeder, expressing interest in one of the boys and we're going to see them on Saturday. Well we wont just be seeing them, I mean you never go to look and come away empty handed do you.

We miss little Pip and everything we do without him just seems 'flat' and we're really surprised at how his loss has affected Poppy, so we're hoping that Ziggy will be a comfort for all 3 of us.

We used to wonder if our ES would ever regret his decision Spring. He acknowledged his dad a few weeks ago and may well have acknowledged me if I'd given him the opportunity to do so, but after 13.5 years I'm not sure if any regrets would make any difference TBH.

Not long into our estrangement when visiting his GM, my m.i.l., he was bemoaning the fact that they hadn't had a decent night's sleep since our first GS was born (they had his brother by then) and how they had no family support!!! That may well have been the extent of any regret.

Being able to share this nightmare journey with our DH's does help doesn't it Marg, the downside being that we see their pain as well as experiencing our own.

I don't know if I do love our GS's TBH Whiff . I know there was an initial rush of love the first time we saw the eldest but it was so long ago, I can't really remember how it felt now.

I know what you mean Yogin, the thought of reconciliation fills me with dread and now the thought of it never happening brings weirdly enough, a sense of peace.

Hope Joey enjoyed his cool bath. Poppy would hate it. To say she's not a water baby would be an understatement.

Take care everyone xxx

Morning all

Another sizzler! Went to the garden of remembrance this morning, showered and out by 7am! It was the best place to take Joey for a walk, really cool under all the trees, birds singing, I think I was the only visitor.

Yes Smiles it does feel like another life and 'was it real'.
Can't imagine reconciling after all these years now. The thought of it doesn't feel me with happiness, I would just expect lots of trouble and sadness, really don't want that again.

Joey is going to have a nice cool bath this morning, I'll be glad when this heatwave has gone, especially as it heats up so early in the morning.

Stay cool all xxx

Spring its was 6 years in May since I last saw my son or spoke to him . He choose the cruel cowards way to end our relationship via email and follow up letter in August 2020. You my have read what happened. But it wasn't just me who he cut out of their lives but all my side of the family. We had nothing to do with his dad's side since my husbands mom died.

My son was 16 when hid dad died so he knows what it is like to only have one parent. I loved the son I had for 32 years who was kind and loving . He is a stranger will be 39 next month. I decided in 2023 I never want to see him again we are strangers . I can never forgive or forget what he and my daughter in law put me through before the estrangement. He made his choice .

I am not the mom he knew . I love the son I knew but have no love for him now. My 3 grandsons are strangers and either been told I don't care or are dead. But if they do want to find me when older that's their choice.

I am happy and live my life to the full . I have zero tolerance for bad behaviour from anyone.

I see my daughter and 2 grandsons every 2 weeks occasionally each week. But both the boys have active social life . My daughter laughs the boys and me have a better social life than she does.

I love my grandsons but don't know them. Last time I saw the oldest 2 they where 4&2 don't even know the name and exact date of birth of their brother.

I am lucky my daughter and family love and care about me. I am not a bad mom . My son made his choice I made mine. I don't hate my son or daughter in law. But they have turned into my in laws and I hated them. My husband never liked his parents but loved them. I hated my mother in law for 40 years but still looked after her for 11 years after my husband died even thought she denied she never had a son or had 2 grandchildren . She refused to go too their weddings.

I could have estranged her but didn't that's not me . I was brought up with strong sense of family. She put me down as her emergency contact as she knew I woukd help. Saw her every week. He own brother only turned up after she was dead.

We all have a moral code we live by. I treat people how I want to be treated and hopefully help people with my life experience.

If my son throught he coukd break me far to late I broke in 2004 when my husband died. But am living the life my husband wanted for me but only the last 7 years next month before I moved to the nort west. Before that I existed had no life as had both parents and mother in law dependant on me. Mom was last to die in 20217.

I live for the now and future the past has gone ..I decided when I moved here never to go back . I move forward and am happy with my life as it is. Lot to look forward to this year and next.
🫂

We found ourselves wondering tonight if our EC 13 years on ever regretted their action, regretted having taken such an extreme decision. At their request we have honoured their desire for no contact, but have other children and now gc whose lives we are very much involved in. Our EC knows this (from their siblings who they are in occasional contact with). At a time in our life now when we have more free time, we have family holidays together, happily help out with childcare, and are fortunate to be able to treat them from time to time. We’ve accepted things are what they are with our EC and their family. They chose for their own reasons to walk away, but it doesn’t stop us wondering from time to time if they miss being part of the larger family, and the general celebratory life events that happen….weddings, birthdays, new additions to the family etc. A lot is sacrificed, that presumably couldn’t have been imagined at the time of choosing to estrange. Without intending to sound patronising I do wonder if a decade or so on the older, more mature person they are now would make the same decision. I know we have changed over the years, and are (I believe/hope) more compassionate to ourselves and others.
Like others have said though, I’m also at the stage of recovery where life is mostly calm and good. I wonder from time to time how I’d feel if they ever chose to reach out again. I genuinely don’t know. I think fear would be the dominant emotion, fear of undoing the years of recovery after feeling completely devastated and worthless. (I trust this gives hope to those of you more recently estranged that the strong emotions do eventually subside and it is possible to make peace with what has happened).
Happy hols to those of you going away/already away. We’re here for the summer but hopefully will have a break in October.

Marge 75, I know it must be as hard for your husband too. Glad mine missed it but how I wish he were here never the less.

Allsorts I hear you and yes I do have DH. He misses his son very much. (Hugs to you).

Spring20 I'm sometimes sad and I think about him for a while, going back over what's happened. Mostly I get on with my life, I don't feel any love though, like you say, how can you love a stranger. It definitely wasn't social media all those years ago but it was a very strong influence in his life which left us on the outside. Knowing the person he was I know that one day he'll be devastated at what he has done but it'll be too late. On a lighter note, we have a wonderful daughter and granddaughter.

Morning everyone.

I don't know to what extent or any that our ES was influenced by social media Spring; any influence would have come from his wife.

I don't know if 13.5 years ago estrangement was being discussed on social media as much as it is now, if at all. It's not something we and I suspect any of us, would have looked into if not for our own estrangements.

I think we'll all experience triggers from time to time, I know we do even though I'm not sure I love our ES anymore. As you say how can you love someone who is now a stranger. On the rare occasions I do think about him, it's like looking back on a life and relationship that because it no longer exists, I find myself questioning if it ever was real.

How can something so wonderful which it was, turn into something so awful, which is what it's become.

Not wanting anything to do with our ES isn't about forgiveness or anger Whiff, it's about fear. The fear of being in a position to be hurt again because I honestly don't think I'd recover of it happened again, and don't think Mr. S. would either.

Hope you enjoyed the Phil.

We arrived at Alnwick yesterday, back to the cottage we stayed in last year and unlike last year, have swimming costumes so we can make use of the hot tub which we didn't know was here, which we'll do later.

Had Poppy's bed in our room last night as we weren't sure how she'd be without Pip. Keeping her with us today but hope to venture out this evening for a meal. Everything's within walking distance so we wont be out for long and we'll hang around for 5 minutes to make sure she's OK. If she's crying, it will be takeaways for the duration of our stay so fingers crossed.

Spring your last sentence is so true. I love the son I had for 32 years. Who he he is now no idea. But I am also a stranger to him . I have changed a lot in 6 years since the estrangement but had already started that change the moment I move here 7 years next month.

I feel love for my 3 grandsons but because they are part of my husband they are strangers to. Where as the love I feel for my other 2 grandsons is strong as I know them both and would kill for them.

I know some have reconciled with estranged adult children and have a relationship with their grandchildren . But I am not the sort to forgive or forget . Still haven't forgiven my brother over what I now know was estrangement for 2 years over 35 years ago and never will. All caused by his 2nd wife's lies. I can never forgive how much he hurt our parents and my husband . We have always been close as there is only 16 months between us. And I had 3 witnesses to what I asked. She did want I needed as it was a medical problem but lied and said I forced her. I never liked her and my husband couldn't stand the sight of her. But she was family.

But family doesn't have to mean blood relatives. We can choose friends to become family ,those with pets they are family. I am glad I am the age I am now. I would hate missing out being brought up with a horde of family .members without the distraction of all the technology. Every pavement had hopscotch chalked on it ,children could play out without parents watching knowing other parents would help them if your child had an accident or needed the loo.

Of course things were different when my children where born but kids could still go to the park and playing field ,out on their bikes without parental supervision. But for my grandsons that's not the case anymore. Its not just having to worry about strangers in person but what they can see online .

At least when I grew up and my children you knew who the bullies where as they faced you . But now children and adults are bullied by people hiding behind a screen .

Here on GN there are bullies who take pleasure in hurting people because they are hiding behind a username. Thankfully others fight them and protect the vulnerable.

On a lighter note found myself instead of talking to myself in Sainsburys yesterday singing Ordinary a song we have learnt at choir what bits I could remember. Then walking from the bus stop Son of a Preacher man . Smiles I can understand why you loved singing in a choir . The 4 songs we will be recording are Earth song ,Because of you,Ordinary and Son of a preacher man . Then have 4 more new songs to learn by April we will have 12 to perform at a concert . Its not compulsory to go too the recording or do the concert but wild horses wouldn't stop me doing both.

At the Phil today for the year 4& 5 string orchestra, wind band and choir . Lot of proud parents and other relatives in the audience. Luckily my friend who had the bike accident is able to come but we are in a box so will be more comfortable for her.
And on that note with shut up . 😁

Marg75 - another person estranged 13/14 years now. At a time when estrangement was scarcely recognised/talked about. I often wonder if our EC was influenced by what they read on social media. Maybe I’m wrong but we were so naive about it at the time.
Not sure what love for an EC means now…..as Smiles said, our spirit gets broken and it’s so hard to recover. I too find myself rarely thinking about our EC now…..but it doesn’t stop me from being triggered every so often.
Overwhelming feeling is just one of sadness though, more than any love. How can you love someone who is now a stranger.

This thread saved me as there was no one I could talk to about my son as they wouldn't have understood. Unless you live through an experience like estrangement, bereavement, moving house etc then no one understands what its like . My best friend was a family counsellor for over 20 years . But they couldn't have children and when I told her about my son she put that voice on and told her to knock it off . I don't need a counsellor I need my friend . I never spoke to her about him since.

I only post about things I have experienced or in the case of the BHF site about heart problem I have ,those of my brother and dad. Because I know what my dad went through he talked to me as he didn't want to upset mom . And I know things my brother has and is going through.

We all have a lot tee shirts of various experiences that we can share with others and then they don't feel alone . I am a chatterbox bet you didn't guess 🤪. I am amazed at the people who have talked to me as they had no one who would understand.
Like those in the Wombles who confided in me things they never told anyone and those who asked me where to go for help with PIP ,equipment etc. I could if I wanted to be mean and destroy the repution of the Wombles and destroy there goody goody imagine of community spirit. But I won't as there a lot of them I like. But if the leader and admin try contacting me again I will destroy them not the everyday members. They picked on the wrong person .

My HPX group was a lifeline as finally understand why my body has done and does what it does now . I am not weird but them again my daughter would say yes you are mom 🤣 .

Our teacher at move it or lose it this week asked what we where glad of . Lot of answers about this that the other not basic things . Mine was breathing that got a laugh.

Here it's good friends ,support not just about estrangement but life in general ,understanding and not being criticised for my view on things .

Well my cleaner will ge here soon. ❤️ to you all.

Yes Smiles thank goodness for this thread. I remember when I first found it, it was and still is a lifeline in this unfathomable nightmare. I loved my estD with all of my heart & soul, I would do anything for her and now to this, I would never have imagined that I could say that I no longer love her.

Allsorts I feel for you, sure, like me, you didn't do anything to deserve being estranged from you D&GC. If I get a sudden sadness wash over me, about it all, I quickly push it out of my brain, no point in getting upset, nothing to be done. Hope your tummy is better today, maybe something you ate or drunk? If it happens again, best to visit the doctors.

Bridey & Marg I wonder how they will think when they become GP, will they finally realise the enormity of what they have done to their mum, I hope so.

Whiff xxx

Morning everyone.

Yes, I feel like that too Whiff. It's weird isn't it; not something any of us would ever have expected to feel and thank goodness for this thread because without it, would we have found somewhere where we could talk so openly.

I very rarely think about him now, not even on his birthday and it was sometime ago that I posted here that I loved him but was no longer 'in love' with him. As if that love was purely biological and existed because I'm his mother and would always exist.

Now like you, I'm no longer sure if I love him at all and that had never really occurred to me until we saw him in Lidl a few weeks ago, because I suppose I'd not really thought about it.

I didn't think about just walking past not making eye contact, because there wasn't time to make a conscious decision; maybe it was instinctive.

It was as you say a different time Bridey, a different time and another life which as time goes by when I look back, I sometimes struggle to believe that that life ever existed.

It's not just our hearts they break, they break our spirit. They undermine our sense of self and the dark and menacing cloud they cast over our lives tarnishes everything; the past, the present and the future.

I have become quite numb when it comes to feeling anything for him maybe that's what it is Marg rather than no longer loving them the numbness prevents us from feeling anything at all.

It's not that we want our AC to look after us in our old age, or to be responsible for us in any way, we just want them to care whether we live or die and the stark reality for us is they don't.

I love friends even if we never meet. It's how you are with each other and words can show love and caring absolutely Whiff .

💐Marge, I don't understand it either, thank goodness you still have DH. On your own after a while people forget you have a AC you don't see, there is no one to talk to as it's old news, I come on here, know it's not just me.

My son thinks he broken my heart but that broke when my husband died and hasn't be whole since.

Bridey and Marg sounds weird saying glad to see your names but I am . You echo how we feel. I look at this way if I was on fire my daughter,son in law and 2 grandsons would run in to save me. My son and daughter in law would pour petrol on me to burn quicker. My 3 grandsons wouldn't have a clue who I was.

My son will never know when I die as there is no need. He will not benefit from my death or my 3 grandsons.

I never deny he exists or my 3 grandsons. But love them have can you love someone you don't know.

I love friends even if we never meet . Its how you are with eachother and words can show love and caring . But that's how I feel. Others will disagree but its how I feel and think.

I don't come on here very often but have written about our estrangement from our son. It's been 13 years now, and I have become quite numb when it comes to feeling anything for him. I love the memories I have of his childhood but I feel no love just a bewilderment at how he can live his life knowing he has two parents in their 80s and obviously not caring if we live or die.

Ditto Allsorts,
They broke my heart and some of my spirit, To cut me off the way they did was and is cruel, how can they continue to do this to somebody they profess to love?

Whiff, that's a lot of money raised at the Pakestinian Embroidery. Your walk on the beach sounds lovely, just you and your daughter. I know you made up your mind very early on that you wouldn't reconcile, with me it was more it became impossible to reconcile as it had gone on so long I don't know her so couldn't. I am used to it and have my moments, will never understand how she did such cruel things, she really did break my heart. I have periods when I think it must be me, some thing I did or didn't do and was not aware of, she must hate me very much for her to be like that.
Bridie I know just how you feel.
Smileless, glad little Poppy is now ready for more hot weather after your fraught trip to get her groomed. Good job she always has you and Mr S there as s he must miss her companion so much and it's not like a person, you can't explain.
Last night for some reason, I had such an upset stomach, felt fuzzy and sick, hardly 3 hours sleep, up and down and felt as if I had been in the sun too long but there wasn't any here, very odd. Just had breakfast and all ok fingers crossed.

Sorry to read about your traffic probs Smiles we had bad delays on our trip to R.Ascot, took us 4.5hrs! Always seem to be temp traffic lights around here, taking ages to get to my yoga class Monday good job I always allow plenty of time to get there. Poor little Poppy, nice of you to give up your church on Sunday.

Sounds lovely Whiff your walk on the beach, I love walking by the sea, but not been for weeks, as too hot even before 7am! Like you, I think the love for my once beloved, now estD, has gone, what she has done is truly wicked & cruel and no reason for it either.

Bridey xx