Vegans please explain why honey is wrong

I usually buy local honey but unfortunately haven't seen the honey lady since lockdown.
In the meantime I'm trusting Prince Charles to look after his bees properly.
???

Fruit farmers will keep or rent hives in their orchards for obvious reasons, it increases the crop and more than enough honey is produced for the bees themselves.

GillT57 According to a Guardian article a few years ago millions of acres of rainforest have been destroyed for soya production leading to loss of biodiversity

BlueBelle

I think it’s such a small amount of vegans that don’t eat honey that I see no reason why we are questioning them it’s their choices surely perhaps there doesn’t have to be a solid reason the fact that they are uncomfortable with it should be enough The same with eggs

I think that you are confusing veganism and vegetarianism BlueBelle.
If you eat eggs, you are absolutely not a vegan.

Oldwoman70

GillT57 According to a Guardian article a few years ago millions of acres of rainforest have been destroyed for soya production leading to loss of biodiversity

Yes that's right, chiefly for animal feed.

As I understand it, the more 'fervent' or puritanical vegans do not like to eat anything where man has meddled, so keeping bees for the purpose of harvesting honey, and practices such as artificial pollination of avocados etc.

The world is predicated on creatures killing other creatures in order to live; on the stronger creatures exploiting the weaker.

We may not like the idea, but there it is - that is what the world is all about.

One might question why it is like it; and why we might at the same time have been given finer feelings that baulk at this system; but it is what it is.

If there is some grand plan, it totally eludes me. I just accept what is.

This is why I mostly do not watch wild life programmes - it is just an unremitting saga of killing.

The idea that human "meddling" is unacceptable completely misses the point that each species meddles in others in order to live.

I think it is a pretty rubbish idea, but then I did not create such a world.

I have some bone china mugs that I used when my vegan niece visited, only realised later but thankfully she either didn't notice or it didn't matter to her.

I m not a vegan Fanny and I m only saying vegans don’t have to give reasons it’s their choices I didn’t say they ate eggs You misunderstood my post

My son has been vegan for several years. He won't eat honey at all.
He also won't eat eggs, or anything with egg in it, like Quorn products.
I said if the hens are well cared for, and present you with an egg each day in return, what's the harm in eating it?
He said the eggs should be fed back to the hens.
I said who would take the time and trouble of keeping hens then? ?‍♀️
He does sit on our leather sofas though...

The person who gave away the eggs probably found the idea of eating an egg repellent !

Coincidentally, when I watched A Perfect Planet this afternoon, the wasp in the centre of the fig was explained. The female loses her wings as she makes her way to the centre of the flower and can't get out again once she has laid her eggs. Perfect food for gibbons!

Where's vegansrock when we need her?

There are many unethical practices in commercial bee keeping. Conventional beekeepers aim to harvest the maximum amount of honey, with high honey yields being viewed as a mark of success. When farmers remove honey from a hive, they replace it with a sugar substitute which is significantly worse for the bees’ health since it lacks the essential micro-nutrients of honey.
In conventional beekeeping, honey bees are specifically bred to increase productivity. This selective breeding narrows the population gene pool and increases susceptibility to disease and large-scale die-offs. Diseases are also caused by importing different species of bees for use in hives. These diseases are then spread to the thousands of other pollinators we and other animals rely on, disputing the common myth that honey production is good for our environment. In addition, hives can be culled post-harvest to keep farmer costs down. Queen bees often have their wings clipped by beekeepers to prevent them leaving the hive to produce a new colony elsewhere, which would decrease productivity and lessen profit. There are many bee species and only 7 are honey bees, honey bees are not essential for large scale pollination. Honey is not essential to eat, plenty of other sweeteners available for those who choose.
As for eggs, chickens are the most abused and exploited animal on the planet. Male chicks are crushed to death within hours of hatch, chickens in their natural wild variety would only lay eggs two or three times a year, but they have been over bred to lay repeatedly which depletes the calcium in their bones and leaves them weak and lame, hence those who keep ex battery hens often feed chickens with their own eggs to replace the calcium. they are sent to slaughter when they are past their usefulness, worn out from repeatedly laying, crippled or diseased.
Thats why some people choose not to eat honey or eggs. It’s a choice, those who choose to eat them should not smirk at or belittle those who don’t. I’m not or criticising people who choose to eat animal products , I’m answering the OP.

When we lived in Cornwall we kept ex battery hens. They looked very handsome when their feathers regrew and lived happy lives decimating the garden. We didn't bother about artificial lighting so they just had a break from laying in the winter and started up again in the spring.

Thanks Vegan.

A good reason not to eat bought cakes and ready meals which contain battery eggs.

I've also been advised to only buy locally produced honey and not commercial types as it still contains all the enzymes and goodness which does you good. Local rape honey didn't quite cure me of my horrendous cough and hay fever symptoms when the rape is in bloom but it nearly has. Commercial honey had no effect.

Thanks, vegansrock, I will try not to argue with my vegan son in future.

Wish I had room for chickens, I had them when I was a child. We bought two new colonies of bees in late spring, they were rather late arriving, so didn't have time to get much in for their winter stores, so they have fondant as well. We're hoping for honey this year.

You’ve got to be very committed to be vegan. I’m a strict vegetarian, I don’t eat eggs or milk because you tend to avoid animal related items more and more. I still like cheese but I could switch to the vegan version if I wanted to, same with honey. I don’t wear leather shoes or buy leather handbags. Probably still rather difficult to eat out even though things have improved in this country. I might cross that thin line and become fully vegan, it’s a way of life.

oldwoman80 re. Soya production - aboutnd 70 percent of the world's soy is fed directly to livestock and only six percent of soy is turned into human food, which is mostly consumed in Asia.

..... and 86% of livestock feed is not suitable for human consumption. Therefore, the vast majority of soya fed to livestock is the by product of the soya used for human consumption. ( from the International livestock Research Institute 2019)

I wonder how neutral the International livestock research institute is? And where do they get that figure of 86% from? The continued destruction of rainforests and all the biodiversity and wildlife is almost all down to the expansion of animal agriculture and the American model of industrial cattle production. Land which could be used more productively for arable farming is being used for intensively reared animals and growing feed for them. But we’ve now strayed away from bees.....

The thing that upsets me most is the continuous milking of cows to supply us with milk. I am not a vegetarian or vegan, but whatever animal product I buy it has to be free range and organic. Tried all the other milks and I don't like them, cant imagine not having my numerous cuppas black, so I guiltily continue to buy organic milk and hope the animals are treated well. I think if any animal is treated well and as in the case of pigs and cows ,live outside and not transported far for slaughter I am ok about the meat. I wouldn't eat halal meat cant bear the thought, it's too upsetting. But honey from a local bee keeper who loves his bees. An awful lot of farmers actually live their animals and poultry and work long and hard at animal husbandry.

A vegetarian I know eats fish, does that make her a flexitarian?

Why is it ok to eat fish but not meat?

I’m probably a bit of an oddity in that I’m a vegetarian but also a beef and lamb farmer! I strongly believe that my livestock lead the best, most natural life they can lead - far better than many domestic ‘pets’. It is my job to ensure that they are safe from harm, are never hungry or thirsty, that medical needs are met promptly, and that they are treated with respect and compassion, and that at the end, they have ‘a good death’. The land I farm produces excellent grass for livestock, but it’s not suitable for growing arable crops. I look after our grass pastures because it produces the food for my animals, both in summer and as hay and silage in the winter months. The only additional feed they have is feed for the ewes for the 6 weeks up to lambing and for the calves in the run up to weaning. Farmers seem to be disproportionately blamed for damage to the environment whilst no one, for examples, bats an eye at house owners digging up their front gardens to lay a block paving drive to park their second car! Looking after our planet is such a huge issue and it’s down to everyone to consider their part.