witzend, I love that description about how the worms came in, it is very heartening. Last house my farmer neighbour used to grow the same winter wheat year after year and he said that the agronomist told him that his soil was barren, so he put nasty bulk fertilisers on it and he sprayed against insects with a big machine and the land remained barren and people locally developed some nasty illnesses, all in the same valley, near those fields
I did what I could on my allotment, discovered bocking 14 comfrey and never looked back, bees loved it and I always left some flowers for them. Our allotments, like oases in a desert of surrounding farmland, much now owned by men in suits. When I came here, I made sure to bring some bits of comfrey and they took hold and the bumble bees came and have stayed
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Gardening
New potager garden is complete. Has anyone else got a potager?
(73 Posts)I did have a thread about my new build garden in 2019. It was such a dreadful mess, the footings were 12 feet deep and builders had filled the huge void with large and small stones, sand etc and it had all been compressed by very heavy machinery. They then put 6" of something on top that they called soil but really it was half stones and half top soil. Thankfully I was in time to stop them flinging grass seed on top
My vegetable garden is in raised beds laid out in a pattern of a parterre, with gravel paths between them and a sculpture of a chcicken in the middle that is made from pieces of old agricultural equipment - springs and the like and dated garden tools like secateurs.
karmalady
They then put 6" of something on top that they called soil but really it was half stones and half top soil. Thankfully I was in time to stop them flinging grass seed on top
I gave a wry smile when I saw that - ours must have had about half an inch of top soil on top of builders' rubbish.
We've rescued the back garden with topsoil, manure and compost but left the front to "lawn" (weeds).
Well done, your hard work is paying off.
MawtheMerrier
By potager do you mean kitchen garden ?
Veggies instead of flowers?
As a child it was the vegetable garden or even the humble cabbage patch!
Ours is strictly divided into flowers, fruit and veg.
I think DH would look bemused if I suggested a potager garden (he's a bit old-fashioned
)
However, we do have flowers amongst the veg but they're known as weeds by other people.
I noticed that forget-me-nots have taken over my strawberry patch so I must heave them out, they are thugs.
That sounds lovely, M0nica.
My new home has a gravel garden which, I have discovered from the neighbours, was professionally designed for the previous owner as she was gradually losing her sight and needed something very low maintenance. It was the garden that sold the property to me and I was lucky to get it.
I'm not a low maintenance gardener though so I'm raking off some areas of gravel and removing sections of landscape fabric so I can deepen the very narrow borders. I'm delighted that the compacted clay soil underneath crumbles easily when worked and there are lots of worms!!
It's not a large garden but there is room between the shed and a hedge to develop a small vegetable patch with raised beds. The gravel paths are already there. Bonus!
I had to leave a lot of stone pots, sculptures and pieces of agricultural equipment behind when I moved
but I will have fun trying to source new 'treasures'
It all sounds lovely karmalady and so much hard work and planning but worth it, by the sound of it. Please post some photos as it grows in the coming months. I have two allotment plots (my home garden is overshadowed by neighbours very tall, unmanaged trees). The first one, started when the site in opened in 2013 on a former grazing field and the second I took over in 2016. The whole field was completely devoid of worms for several years, other plot holders commented too. I now have raised beds + composts heaps and large patches of Comfrey Bocking. I first saw worms 3 years ago and now they are really back and thriving. The first patch is devoted to fruit and vegetables and the other devoted to flowers of all sorts and is a real picture at times, but a lot of self seeding happens and the veg plot has its fair share of flowers! The pollinators love it too, it’s a very busy place for them, even yesterday. The robins were at my elbow as I weeded then. I hope I don’t sound too silly when I say it makes my heart sing and really is my happy place. I hope others get as much enjoyment from their gardens.
That's interesting. The potager here in France is just the vegetable garden, literally where you grow your potage (soup). ?
We had 36 raised beds in our last potager and are currently working to create the new one. Not a flower in sight! Would be interesting to know when the meaning got changed in English.
Is a potager a bit like an allotment?
No Gelleh, but both my plots are laid out in a similar way and the planting mixed!
Friend does authentic Tudor cookery and makes pottage for the peasants ( veg soup with beans etc) and amazing food for the gentry using mainly a sharp knife and charcoal fire. So pottage old English as well!
Mamie
That's interesting. The potager here in France is just the vegetable garden, literally where you grow your potage (soup). ?
We had 36 raised beds in our last potager and are currently working to create the new one. Not a flower in sight! Would be interesting to know when the meaning got changed in English.
I think that was where I was coming from Mamie but I defer to superior knowledge.
I thought those wonderfultapestry-like geometric gardens were called parterres anyway.
No doubt somebody will put me right there too.
I think the English translation of potager (a French word in origin) would be kitchen garden.
Never let authenticity get in the way of a good design concept. 
Prairie gardening, wildflower meadows, etc., etc.,
Garden Centres rub their hands in glee! 
There's nothing wrong with wild flower meadows. I have 6.5 acres, most of which is given over to wild flowers and trees. All natural. The flat part was originally given over to oil seed rape but after some years is now wild flowers. Throughout the year we have over 100 varieties of wildflowers, including 6 different orchids. When we arrived we tried seeding but it didn't work and so we just left the field, cutting once a year in October. All the flowers that arrived have come from seeds hidden underground and germinating (just as poppies survive for many years) or by spreading from other parts of the garden.
Re: potagers - a Japanese friend has a delightful veg patch. She mixes flowers and veg (companion planting) but she is not a tidier upper so the plot is a riot and there is always something to pick or look at.
I would allow nasturtiums and other flowers that deter insects Merlotgran. ????
We were proud to introduce the idea of growing potatoes under straw to our French village. Also DH grew amazing tromba (large, twirly courgette things) which also started to appear in our neighbours' gardens after the annual seed share. ?
I didn't say there was anything wrong with wild flower meadows.
but try fitting 6.5 acres into a Chelsea show garden.
Gardeners are inspired by these designs, hence my comment about Garden Centres rubbing their hands in glee.
What a fantastic thread karmalady. Thank you for starting it and I'll be back quite often to see how you are doing.
Seven years ago, I moved to be with my new partner, now husband. I inherited what you see in the first photo.?
I grew up in Derbyshire and my father was a keen gardener. We had very little money and my father made good use of his council house garden. Looking back, it would have been described as a potager garden and I loved helping him with it.
50 years later, after a couple of years hard grafting, I now have one of my own and the time to tend it. I uncovered the low raised beds and put a new skin on the polytunnel (photo). It went through a major change two years ago when I was 70. In the last photo, it shows the raised beds becoming even more raised with wide paving around them for the barrow !
I have also planted fruit trees away from the beds. This year I am trying to grow squash. ??
I had never come across the word potager until last year when looking for somewhere to take my visiting daughter for lunch. She is a pescatarian and loves her veggies. I discovered Potager Garden just 45 mins drive from me. After an amazing lunch prepared from what is grown there, we had a wander around the whole of the huge garden that had been slowly rescued from a mass of brambles 20 years ago.
It's been interesting to read that potager gardens in France date back to the Middle Ages when people were given two plots - one for a building and the other to grow vegetables and fruit. They did grow flowers too: Marigolds keep aphids at bay, while roses and nasturtiums attract them and so were – and still are – “sacrificial plants” to draw the little critters away from the vegetables. I've tried marigolds before not so sure about sacrificing a rose though !
Like many of our English words, potager has been introduced from outside the UK. Apparently though it has/had another spelling: Middle English word pottage, circa 1175–1225
Lots of luck and enjoyment with your's Karmalady. Watch your back!
It’s changing I think Mamie, here’s a good article which describes the evolution of potagers from vegetables and herbs only to the modern tapestry style effect - maybe it is an English/American interpretation, but it lends itself as a concept well to people with average sized gardens.
www.gardeningetc.com/advice/potager-garden
What an interesting thread karmalady thank you. That looks really good muse lots of hard work there too.
Yes I think it must be a UK/US thing Casdon. I haven't seen any sign of it here in Normandy though I am sure some people do put flowers in the vegetable garden.
It is just that linguistically it feels odd.
Flowers in the soup? Ce n'est pas possible. ?
Yes, I can see rose petals in the soup not being a good concept Mamie!
www.rhs.org.uk/gardens/rosemoor/garden-highlights/potager-cottage-garden
I’ve been looking at examples, and this one at Rosemoor looks lovely.
MawtheMerrier
Mamie
That's interesting. The potager here in France is just the vegetable garden, literally where you grow your potage (soup). ?
We had 36 raised beds in our last potager and are currently working to create the new one. Not a flower in sight! Would be interesting to know when the meaning got changed in English.I think that was where I was coming from Mamie but I defer to superior knowledge.
I thought those wonderfultapestry-like geometric gardens were called parterres anyway.
No doubt somebody will put me right there too.
Yes, they were, there was one at Hampton Court, designed by a French man I think.
Growing flowers such as marigolds, French marigolds etc, amongst beans helps to deter black fly.
In theory.
Is it different from a traditional cottage garden though?
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