Large flowerbed - starting again

Again, thank you very much for your gardening help. Lots to consider. In case anyone wonders why I have a slinky on our bird feeder this was a tip also from Gransnet, to keep squirrels away and it has really worked well

I agree with Merlotgran when she says to remove the lower branches of shrubs and trees, to lollipop them.
I am not a gardener, but have done this successfully with a couple of conifer trees, and it makes so much more space underneath them.

Good luck, a large bed can look daunting but it really does give you scope for having something beautiful, most borders and beds are really too small

This! 👏👏

We have a huge garden with many deep borders and having filled in a big pond which we struggled to maintain properly, we also have a new bed (a bit bigger than your plot) there are tall trees on the south side, a hedge on the south side and is fairly open to the north, but because it has a large open area in front of it, it's actually quite sunny. Orientation is really important as is type of soil, you can improve the soil but unless you add lots of topsoil you won't change it that much. We had no option but to get a load of topsoil, it's very sandy and free draining whereas our garden is clay so it's giving me the opportunity to grow plants that won't thrive in the rest of the garden.We find shrubs are our best friend in large areas, there are so many different types and they create a structure, if you choose some evergreens you also get winter interest and also good Autumn colour from your deciduous shrubs. Hardy perenials go in around the shrubs and I plant bulbs for early spring colour towards the front, I fill up gaps in the spring with annuals. Beds like this develop over the years and most years I clear something out and replant, I never get it right straight away but that's part of the fun. I had a lovely collection of penstemon but lost every single one this year because basically my soil is too heavy for them to withstand a really wet winter, but my roses are fantastic because they like a heavy soil. Good luck, a large bed can look daunting but it really does give you scope for having something beautiful, most borders and beds are really too small.

karmalady

too late to grow green manure this autumn, mine has already grown,been chopped and covered. I would put a good layer of well rotted farmyard manure all over, then cover with weed fabric and leave it to the worms and other creatures to break that down and take it into the soil. If you do that the soil will be quite crmbly by late spring. Don`t bother with composts, they are not designed to add organic matter to a `dead` soil. Organic matter will add structure

Think about removing those trees in front of the fence, they must be taking a lot of goodness, water and light away from the soil

Just planted mine. It’s how we always do it.

Patsy70

Forgot to add, as has already been mentioned, don’t plant anything until the Spring. Leave the worms to do the work of enriching the soil.

My father was a keen gardener. When he moved to a house where he had to start from scratch with the front and back garden he dug over the front garden which was full of builders’ rubble and planted potatoes as he said they enriched the soil. I don’t know how correct this is but after he harvested the potatoes he planted a lawn from grass seed and flowering shrubs, they all grew beautifully. Then he tackled the huge back garden and made a lawn and vegetable patches with all sorts of vegetables, again he planted potatoes first and he gave many potatoes away to friends and neighbours. When it was all finished we had to move house as it was a police house and he was promoted, some lucky person gained the fruits of his labours. I wish I had inherited his green fingers but sadly I didn’t my brother did to an extent but not as much as our father.

When you say, ’we face south west,’ does that include the border which may have a different orientation?

South west facing is an ideal position for plants and the shrubs at the back will only shade plants in the early morning - if at all.

I would crown lift the shrubs, removing all foliage in the lower branches to expose the trunks. This will look attractive especially if you can stain or paint the fence behind. It will also allow more light on to the border. If you remove them completely you will lose your background layer of planting and will need to replace them which will be a lot of extra work and expense.

I’m crown lifting and ‘lolly popping’ some overgrown shrubs in my own garden at the moment which I inherited from the previous owner. This means the planting retains shape and form without losing valuable space.

I agree that it’s too late for green manure.

For more information/ideas - Radio 4 - Gardeners' Question Time, available on Facebook, well worth looking at.

I would put a good layer of well rotted farmyard manure all over, then cover with weed fabric and leave it to the worms and other creatures to break that down and take it into the soil. If you do that the soil will be quite crmbly by late spring

Find a friend with horses 😃
Make sure it's well-rotted.

Quokka

I’d plant green manure over the winter months and dig it in come spring with perhaps a few hundred bags of compost.

Then I’d plant it out to flowering shrubs just leaving a small border for flowers.

Yes, fresh topsoil or added compost rather than adding nutrients to depleted soil.

I always think that adding nutrients to poor soil is like giving someone who is hungry vitamins without feeding them a meal.

You could try the no-dig method or just remove the top layer and replace, leave over the winter.

Which way is the sun?

Make a plan, research which plants do well in areas which may be shady and plan it by height and colour.

Penstemons are always useful.
Perennial geraniums near the front.

I had a friend who had a wide border like that, she only went in there once a year to prune backand weed!

Forgot to add, as has already been mentioned, don’t plant anything until the Spring. Leave the worms to do the work of enriching the soil.

I was going to suggest trying to make it a bit smaller or divide it to make it more accessible for weeding. Quite jealous - I'd love to plant something new, I love what I've got but enjoy experimenting with colour.

Agree with most comments. I would definitely reduce the height and spread of those trees, which are preventing light to the border. After reducing the size of the trees, which I’d recommend you get a professional to do, I would suggest you focus on improving the soil with composted manure, spreading at least a depth of 6 inches over the entire border. Would you consider adding a pathway in the middle, which will provide easy access to plant, weed and generally maintain? There are so many beautiful plants to choose from, for both sun and shade. Enjoy planning & planting! 😊

I'm about to try to reduce the size of a huge flowerbed , because weeding it is killing me .
You might want to think about a membrane to suppress weeds .

I agree with all the advice here -cutting those shrubs right back and giving the soil a supercondition .

Does that fence belong to you or your neighbour ?
It looks a bit tired .
After cleaning , I'd give it a couple of coats of Cuprinol .
If using a colour -you need your neighbour's written permission .

too late to grow green manure this autumn, mine has already grown,been chopped and covered. I would put a good layer of well rotted farmyard manure all over, then cover with weed fabric and leave it to the worms and other creatures to break that down and take it into the soil. If you do that the soil will be quite crmbly by late spring. Don`t bother with composts, they are not designed to add organic matter to a `dead` soil. Organic matter will add structure

Think about removing those trees in front of the fence, they must be taking a lot of goodness, water and light away from the soil

glammagran

Thank you all! It would never have occurred to me to leave planting until the Spring. The shrub in the middle is now more like a tree and should never have been allowed to get so big. I’ve never heard of Green manure. Would I need topsoil as well?

Not necessarily re top soil. But I would invest in a couple of bags of compost (Jacks Magic is a good one) and dig that in after you’ve dug in the green manure

The one on the left will be very easy to prune. It doesn’t produce any flowers.

I’ve tried to id the tree/shrub on the right. It’s evergreen and produces quite dark pink flowers in November. I’m loathe to cull it but if I have it cut it back it will be mostly trunk.

Have you identified the shrubs at the back? Maybe they can be severely pruned, at the right time. If they flower, it’s usually after flowering. Without doubt they are restricting light. The ground certainly looks compacted and in need of nutrients. You can buy 70L sacks of soil improver from most garden centres, they usually will deliver. That with some type of manure should improve the soil.
Spend the winter planning the flower bed, draw a plan, plot where the sun falls during different times of the day. Next decide what plants you’d like and their growing conditions, such as type of soil and light levels. You have quite a large area to fill, don’t overcrowd with too many plants. Researching examples of flower beds on the internet might help.

Thank you all! It would never have occurred to me to leave planting until the Spring. The shrub in the middle is now more like a tree and should never have been allowed to get so big. I’ve never heard of Green manure. Would I need topsoil as well?

I agree with cutting back the existing shrubs and exposing more of the wall which you may then decide to paint. I wouldn’t rush into planting it up before spring but would cover the whole border in well rotted farmyard manure and cover that in black plastic or landscape fabric over the winter to prevent weeds from taking hold on a lovely blank canvas. Taking time to improve the soil will pay dividends.

Use the next few months to plan your border taking light and orientation into consideration, also whether or not you want to divide it to aid access for weeding.

Make sure you do a soil test before planting any acid lovers like magnolia or, in some cases, camellias. Personally I wouldn’t add any more shrubs other than low growing ones as you already have two large ones at the back.

The more time spent planning, the better it will be when you begin the exciting stuff - planting. Why not sketch out a plan taking care to get the planting distances as accurate as possible.

Have fun!

I'd thin out those trees/shrubs a bit before you plant too much because they might be blocking some of the light. Also work on the soil as suggested. Roses should be happy, also viburnum all towards the back. Then a weeping cherry tree in the middle with a small border for flowers all around it. Good luck.

How exciting..
Agree over winter with Green Manure will do it good then you can dig it in and then add to that.

www.rhs.org.uk/soil-composts-mulches/green-manures

I’d plant green manure over the winter months and dig it in come spring with perhaps a few hundred bags of compost.

Then I’d plant it out to flowering shrubs just leaving a small border for flowers.