Would you want to know you had a granddaughter?

Spabbygirl - is the sister still alive? Could you tell her now? I wonder if there is not something still which could be salvaged, in relation to the family connection?

Thanks so much for your messages. I'm on a different time zone here in Australia of course, so woke up to all the messages.

To answer some of the questions raised, GeminiJen - my mother knows about my pregnancy through another relative. She hasn't reached out to me. She's abusive, and I've had had to cut her out of my life for my own wellbeing around 3 years ago. My father was lovely but an enabler of her behaviour, and died of cancer 5 years ago. She is capable of flying into rages when someone goes against her or criticizes her and/or she feels rejected or unloved, and is capable of appalling behaviour. I have been much better without her in my life, and it's a situation I agonized for over a decade and sought counselling before taking such drastic measures. When it was first mooted to me that I may need to cut my mother out of my life, by the Head of University counselling when I was 22 years old, I was horrified at the thought that she could even suggest it. After all, your mother is your mother. Over the following 10 years, I came to realize why my counselor had posed that to a 22 year young woman. And other counsellors suggested the same. Mothers are meant to be put on a pedestal, and children loyal to them for life. But my mother is narcissistic, domineering, controlling, emotionally abusive and capable of physical abuse - although the latter very rarely only when she flies into a major rage. She's never apologized for what she's done in a rage. She's never taken responsibility for what she's done. She gaslights, blames others, or blames the victim for provoking her. I have scars of cuts at my elbows, a broken finger and scars of cuts at my scalp form when she threw all the dinner plates on the kitchen table at me when I was 17. I was I would add a straight A-grade student, who never got any detentions, and took my first job at 14 years old. I was not a bad teenager (and not that it would have justified her actions had I been anyway).

I get along well with everyone else in my life.

I'm very close to my sister, who is 10 years younger than me, and who I was a kind of half-sister / half-mother to. I've flown her to London when I was living there, and had her stay for a month. When she was little I used to pick her up and take her to the swimming pools, and we'd cook together, and I took her on girlie trips. And she'll come over and see the baby and stay with me. But she's 25 and newly qualified as an art teacher, and has her own life just opening up for her.

Nonnie - that is my hope too.

Spabbygirl - Goodness I really feel for what you've been through. Ironically I am an archaeologist - and art historian, and did my MA in England. (Small world) What an arse men can be. I guess these days with DNA testing, it's much harder for men to deny paternity in that way. Mind you I look at the way Elizabeth Hurley had Steven Bing publicly deny paternity, be proven wrong by DNA test, and he continued still to be awful and have nothing to do with his son. She formed a little circle of surrogate fathers around her son - including Elton John, Hugh Grant etc. And I don't think her boy knows his Dad at all.

I don't think my situation is going to go the same way. I had a text just yesterday from my baby's father, saying that I'd been the topic of conversation with his friends the night before, and they were all very excited for him becoming a Dad, and they wanted to meet me.

So I feel he is improving over my pregnancy as he's coming to terms with it, and I've done my best to try and understand what's caused his reaction and his past experience where I think quite frankly he had massive burn-out from caretaking and responsibility. And I've tried to reduce his anxiety in our conversations and emails. To reassure him I'm not going to do a dependence flop on him, as happened with his ex girlfriend with her redundancy, father's death and then breast cancer. Where he ended up solely responsible for providing financially, emotionally, looking after her, etc, in the very difficult circumstances.

Goodness I'm just so pleased to have had all your views and advice though.

I will keep my fingers crossed that he's going to end up telling his parents himself. (I'm pretty sure he's terrified of his mother's reaction, immense disappointment and/or disgust in him as the timing suggests he kind of two-timed on myself and his most recent ex who visited from the UK and stayed with his family.)

If the baby's born and they still haven't been told or informed, I'll then look at trying to sensitively send them a small note and photograph of Sophia.

I really hope it won't come to that - that he'll tell them himself. And it is looking more promising from his recent text message about his friends being excited for him and wanting to meet me. It seems like some progress.

Thank you so much everyone for your advice and thoughts.

x Emma

As a grandmother I would be very upset if I had a granddaughter and was not told about her not to mention that I would tear a strip off my son for not telling me sooner BUT I agree with the other ladies wait until after the baby is born try and get a support team around you for then, your emotions are going to be all over the place and you don't want to say or do something you might otherwise regret your baby and you are the only two people that matter. As for the father and I use the term loosely notify him of the birth and weight and take care of your self enjoy these first few precious moments. Please take care you and your child are the only people that matter.

Perhaps the title of the thread is wrong; perhaps it should be more along the lines of 'do I have to involve my baby's grandparents in her life'

Yes, I would want to know that I had a granddaughter, I would be distraught if I thought there was a grandchild out there I could not get to know and love.
Your ex-partner sounds a bit of an odd-bod though so I wonder what his parents are like. Is there any way at all of finding out before you include them in your child's life (if they want to be included).

And can you see your sister more often? It's not so far to New Zealand from Australia.

Emma you should only tell the grandparents if you are prepared to have them in your, and Sophia's, life forever.
To tell them they have a granddaughter, and then to deny them contact for whatever reason would be cruel.
You seem to be assuming that they will want contact, too. That may not be the case, as spabby illustrates.
How would you feel if they rejected you and your daughter?
It's not the end of the world if children don't know their grandparents. Many don't, for a variety of reasons.

i was in almost exactly the same situation as you 24 yrs ago, i have my own grandchildren now, one is sitting on my lap so i can't use capitals etc. my boyfriend was a bristol archaeologist whose wife died in a car accident young. I got pregnant after seeing him for a year or so & at first he was great when I said I wouldn't have an abortion either, but after a while distanced himself till when I was 7 months he said, 'I tell you one thing, I'm having nothing to do with this child.' But he never wanted to loose contact with me, he said. How the heck he thought he'd manage that I don't know. Anyway, I was hurt & wondered about grandparents etc. I waited till baby was born, he wouldn't be at birth but took me home from hospital where home care looked after me but he totally distanced himself from us though he did give us money. I said to him if he didn't tell his parents, I would cos I thought it in childs best interest, so he said he'd tell them. His dad rang me and said he didn't believe it and wanted nothing to do with us. His sister didn't know & I still wonder if I should have contacted her to this day. I ditched him at that point & went to court for maintenance but it hurt. Every time I looked at the baby, who I adored, I couldn't believe his dad would be so foul. I was working in fostering & adoption then (I'm a social worker) & went to see a child in care who said she wanted to see her dad & I just burst into tears!
I love Jamiie (baby) to bits & I don't think he missed his dad, his dad was on tv once talking about english heritage in devon as he was an archaeologist for them but James wasn't interested, too busy playing!
The hurt went in time, but I never lost the adoration of my son, I just think Rob (dad) was a stupid twerp with the emotional intelligence of a fly. I wish I'd seen it a long time before, I wouldn't now waste my time with someone like that & thats what I tell my kids.
I don't really think there is a right way to handle this, I think its what you feel most comfortable with, if he's going to play a part he will whatever you do, so long as you're reasonably sensitive.
My story had a happy ending in the end without him, maybe it would have been horrible long term had he felt forced to take a role he possibly isn't capable of, I suppose everyone is different. I waited till the baby was born though before forcing the telling issue, so they could see what I was talking about.
PM me if that helps, or I'll be back soon, we've just got our grandchildren this weekend & much as I love them, they certainly keep you busy!!
Lynne
ps i remember now, he said id done it deliberatly!! i guess its one way to shift the blame!!

Would you want to know you had a granddaughter?

Yes

He is 40 and shrinks away from commitment, sounds like he hasn't grown up yet. Yes he has history with being relied upon but we are talking about a new life here. I would wait until Sophia is born and see what his reaction is before informing his parents. I personally wouldn't want him as a partner if I were you, too self absorbed but as a gran, I would be mortified if my son was reluctant to let it be known he was a father.

This seems as though it was a casual relationship & that he doesn't want to let you into his personal life, wait until baby is born he may change his mind.
Most mothers will go with their son's wishes.

Emma...Lots of useful advice here, I hope you think so too.

One thing I'm surprised no one seems to have picked up on is the issue of your own mother. In your first post, you say that you're estranged, and describe her as narcissistic and controlling.
Towards the end of your second post however, you make a comparison between the supposed views of paternal versus maternal grandparents.

It seems to me (as someone who knows you only through what you've written here) that all your focus so far is on establishing a relationship with one set of grandparents, while dismissing the other.
E.g. Have you told your mother that you're pregnant? If not, why not? If you did, how did that go?...
So many unknowns about your situation mean that it's very difficult to comment in any meaningful way. Perhaps more useful for you to talk this through face to face with friends...and/or take professional advice?
..and take good care of yourself

As someone who was adopted at birth, I commend you for wanting to establish contact with your child's grandparents. As I have become older I would love to have had contact with someone who was genetically related to me, I have always known of my adoption but only recently been able to trace my birth family members, many of whom are no longer alive.
I think you need to approach this very gently as I'm sure you realise, if you send a photo after her birth you will give the grandparents the opportunity to accept and love her. If they choose not to do this, then you have at least tried to establish contact. Who knows, it may take them some time to accept the situation - you can only leave the door open for further contact. I think it's worth trying for the sake of your child.
As a grandparent myself I would really want to know even it it initially came as a shock. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

As a grandparent I would want to know as soon as I had a grandchild and not find out accidentally perhaps years later. I would wonder why the mother had excluded me.

Children benefit from having grandparents and these are the only ones she will have. I really believe you have nothing to lose by telling them and then allowing them to make the decision about whether they want to be involved or not. You have said they have a good relationship with the brother's ex so why would they not want to have one with you?

My bet is that the father will want to be involved with his child and will be so proud he will tell his parents himself.

Emma, I am very sorry for my post which I didn't think through properly before I posted. I really hope things go well for you and even if the father doesn't become a big part of your daughter's life, that she knows who he is and his family at least acknowledge and show an interest in her.
Go slowly and good luck with the birth and both your futures .

You are absolutely right Tresco,I know someone like your freind too.But paternal grandparents are usually the ones who suffer when relationships break down.I know two grandmas who can't see their GC.For that reason,for me,no, I would rather not know.

In my experience, family secrets are almost always toxic and they almost always come out, often at the most awkward times. For example, a friend of mine didn't know her 'father' was in fact her stepfather until her aunt mad a casual remark at his funeral. It caused a lot of distress and a feeling that my friend had been deprived of knowing her own father (who was still alive). So I am always in favour of being open and truthful. My good wishes to you whatever decision you make.

Thanks for your messages.

He's not married. I know where he works, and what he does. We speak on the phone and text, and he has come to the baby scan, and if he can't come to one due to work - he calls me afterwards. And we meet for a meal and catch-up quite often when he visits.

I feel he is getting gradually more accepting of the fact a baby is on the way as time has gone along. (Although concede this could be wishful thinking on my part!) And I would like some financial help from him, but I accepted when I had the baby that I would certainly be bearing the majority of the weight of raising this child. I want him to see his daughter and for her to know her Dad, and he plans to see her.

By way of further context on the grandparents, his father is retired teacher, and his mother hosts International homestay students. They have another son (his brother), who has children from a previous relationship and current relationship. They have I think around 4 grandchildren from their other son, and they see all of them, including the grandchildren from that son's previous marriage, and they get along with the ex-wife and she comes over with the kids so they see their grandchildren.

Marmark with regard your concern I would about turn in any way, in respect of the grandparents relationship, I wouldn't. I'm very committed to my daughter having family. And I'm very patient as a person. And I'm open-minded and non-judgmental to different views. I've done a lot of travel in my life. So I'm confident once a relationship is initiated between my daughter and her grandparents, I would never break it.

I just hope he tells them himself.

I do feel they will find out eventually because all his friends know, and if he's taking our little girl out to the park etc, I think it's inevitable he'll bump into someone the family knows, etc. There are just too big logistics to keep it a secret for very long. Although it's possible it would be a few years he'd manage to keep it a secret before being caught out.

I take on board all your comments about waiting until after the birth before I write to them.

From a mother's perspective, one feels very pregnant at 20 weeks, preparing the baby's room, getting everything needed. Baby is kicking and Mum feels very bonded to baby.

However I understand from a grandparent's perspective, from what you're all saying, that it's a bit of a case of "don't count your chicks until they hatch". Particularly paternal grandparents I guess, as opposed to maternal grandparents (who would likely want to know their daughter is pregnant).

Thanks everyone for their thoughts.

Emma

I agree with Marmark, the father hardly sounds reliable,the parents could be the same. He is basically a sperm donor and if you don't want his involvement just treat him as one.If you had gone to a sperm bank you would not be asking these questions and would be happy to be having a child. If he wants any involvement after the birth then that will be the time to talk about his parents.

Would I want to know? No,I don't think I would,ignorance is bliss.Grandma could get really attached to baby,something happens,bump,that's poor grandma pushed out again.People should put baby's needs first,they don't ask to be born.Yes,ideally,they deserve loving family around them,helps them grow into a well balanced happy confident person.Stability and loving guidance.No,I would be worried sick,you were going to turn,seen too much of it with friends of mine.

I agree with stillhere. It will probably be important for the child to know their family history and they can't do that if they only get half. After all they have a huge chance of looking like, and/or being a similar character, to their paternal grandmother. At least open the lines of communication.

You have made it very clear that you don't need this man financially and it is clear you cannot rely on him emotionally. He is a commitment phobe (is there such a word?). You already know he tells lies so cannot rely on anything he says so do what you want to do and I think that you want your daughter to have grandparents.

I would want to know without a doubt, his parents know how it feels to have their own baby and are almost certain to love their grandchild.

Don't do anything until after the birth. I know several men who were happy to become fathers but determined it wouldn't change their lives. However as soon as their child was born all this changed and they were just as besotted as the rest of us! Who knows, when he sees his daughter he may well fall in love and be so proud he tells the world! So your worries may be unfounded and it may not be an issue but, if it is, go ahead and tell them. You may then find out why he didn't want to tell them, yes, he might even be married but at least you will know.

I wish you the best of luck. Please do let us know what happens.

Is he going to pay maintenance for the baby? Do you want him to? I'm with everyone who says you should say nothing until after he has seen the baby and I think forcing his hand now would be wrong. Your daughter needs some male influences in her life and it could be him if you don't alienate him now. Let us know how you get on.

This makes me uncomfortable sorry , are you trying to force his hand ? Best to concentrate on you child having a good relationship with her father, back him into a corner and the little one may never known her father , he doesn't sound ready for a commitment , perhaps he is married or doesn't want a full time relationship

I think whether he tells his parents or not is down to him. I think all you can expect from this man is child maintenance once the baby is here. And that you should definitely pursue.

I agree with Anya.You may well not want any more to do with this man (I would not.) His parents may well be hostile to you.It is a big thing to go it alone, but you will be amazed at how much you love this baby when she arrives.Children never miss what they don't have, and she will have a loving Mother, and who knows what may happen in the future, you may meet somebody who actually deserves you.Good Luck!

I'm not sure I agree with the advice on here. I think it's up to him if he wants to tell his parents and I do think you may run the risk of alienating him from both you and from the baby if you do so without his agreement. He doesn't sound to me as if he intends acting as a responsible Father. He wanted you to have an abortion and the business about damaging his relationship with his Mother sounds like a weak excuse.

Also, it's still very early days and a long time before the baby will be safely here. At this stage of your pregnancy anything could still happen and I think least said soonest mended, for a while anyway.

My own plan would be to talk to him again and explain what you have told us and how you feel that his parents, as Grandparents, should know about their grandchild. I would ask him outright if he is going to tell them and also what he would think about you telling them. He may well tell you to butt out and even disappear from your life but to be honest, would that really be a bad thing? He is definitely not a keeper in my view.