Estranged grandchild v going to court

I've just read most post apart from Wendysue as they are long & alot, I'll go back to read them.
Skweek & Penny & Grandpiano* so sorry
Emma congratulations & goodluck with baby Sophie

Snapdog You are very lucky to get your contact, I hope all is going well. I think my Judge was a childless women, no empathy/sympathy what so ever, unlike the first two Judges.

My C father walked out when our C were 3,6 & 9, left us in a foreign country with no money, never paid maintenance, but I still let him see the C as I thought it too cruel not to. After the first year he never bothered to see them much, couple of times per year and now once in 3-5yrs as he lives in Indonesia. Yet now he is the father of the year via Skype! Nasty s.i.l got him to start a hate campaign against me, hate mail sent round robin full of lies, so I know how you feel Tracy My now estD was the 3yr old, so never knew her dad really. When it was said her dad would come to their wedding [but only if it was an all expenses paid trip] nasty s.i.l said he would knock him out if he did turn up, from that to this

Footnote [after loosing that long post, finally got it back

Annbach what you have said is utter rubbish, the courts would never take a child away from their mother because a grandparent has asked for a visitation order and they would not act on a grandparent saying she was a bad mother either. Millions of dad's go to court for visitation to their children and no doubt they will try to blacken the mothers name in an effort to get the order or custody they want.

Morning Tracyb

Sorry to hear your sad tale, I have only read a couple of the reply posts, but need to share my story, briefly, with you.

My D&GD lived with me, we had a very special and loving bond, I chose her name and my D named her after me, her second and last name, my only names. Her now husband came along, lived with my D in my house for 6mnths, then they moved into their own home when she fell pregnant with his child. I was at both births of my GC and loved them both with all of my heart & soul. I arranged & paid for their wedding and when they moved into their own home, I gave them £5,000. I was later to be called mean by nasty s.i.l

Whilst on holiday with my other D, which I had invited them to come too, my now estD & nasty husband had a big argument, he was phoning me every half hour, till we packed up and came home to help. My D stayed with me for a few days whilst I tried to mediate between them. When I said to him that my D would get custody of my GD [not his C] therefore my GS [his C] and it's the mother & C that stay in the family home, it's the man that leaves [said in a nice way] his hate jumped from my D to me, he took her back and cut me out!

I went to mediation, but they refused. I then went to court and didn't have a lawyer. First time they didn't show, second they contested, third; the Judge believed his lies and deceit, so I didn't get the permission I needed to go to the main court to applied for the visitation order. Before all this I did everything to try and reconcile, apologizing for anything I had done or said, asking for a family meeting, asking my family members to help, nothing worked. Eventually all my estD family have been cut out and we haven't seen her or my precious GC for 3yrs 2mnths+.

Lots more to the story, but my advise is don't go to court, it makes it a trillion time worst, only way is to hope they will have a change of heart, unfortunately they may not! I even had a warning of an harassment order given to me by a police visit when I went to the park adjacent to my GD pre-school a day after Mothering Sunday, they had told the police I had tried to kidnap my GD, when I hadn't even said 'hello', as my D turned back into the school before I could!

Sorry I've started this now, it's just run on too long, sorry! But best of luck I hope you get to see your GC again, win them with love, not with the courts!

BTW, Tracy, have you ever been to counseling to deal with the effects of what seems to have been an abusive marriage? Whether you have or not, it may be a good idea to go now to help you deal with this new episode of abuse (if I'm right about that). The counselor might also be able to help you find ways to reconnect with your AC (adult children) and XDIL (and so, ultimately, reunite with your GC). Please consider it, if you haven't already.

Also, about X' wife - not to excuse her, but she may be under his thumb and just carrying out his wishes. He sounds like an "evil" man.

Tracy, I'm so sorry. It sounds as if your X was emotionally abusive to you and, in a sense, he is continuing the abuse. I don't know why, except that I'm sure this is about him and his sick need to control, not about you.

I still don't see how your DD and DS could be so influenced by him, unless he has used emotional/verbal abuse to get control of their thinking and so forth. I agree with Luckylegs that your best bet is to focus on trying to rebuild your relationships with DS and DD. Also, I agree with writing them each a letter apologizing for what they have complained about. Just a simple "I'm sorry for XYZ" and that's it.

Really, I mean it - just that and then, of course, an expression of your love. I don't think you should try to defend yourself, "I did this cuz that happened," etc. cuz it will just open up the door to argument. Nor do I think you should add a request to see them or the kids cuz then they may think you're apologizing just to get to see them/the grands. Ok, you would be, but they don't need to know that. Even if they respond, seeing your grands may have to wait a while.

They may not respond, of course, but they might. IMO, it's worth a try. It may be the kind of thing they've been waiting for.

But if it's about something you're supposed to have done to your X and he's lying or distorting, then I realize you may not be able to bring yourself to apologize. So maybe just a short note expressing your love, but reminding them (briefly) that they can't possibly have the whole picture of what happened between you and their dad/ that it's between you and him and in the past. Again, please resist the urge to explain or defend yourself - it's not really their business. If the reply, asking you to explain, I'm going to recommend that you refuse to discuss it further, saying it's not about them (cuz, hey, it's not).

Sigh... that second approach is not as likely to get you a response, of course. But if your heart isn't in an apology, I know you just may not be able to give one.

Many (((hugs!)))

I understand but how do I live everyday knowing he is growing up without us? I cannot understand why my ex and his wife feel the need to poison my children and dil after all this time. I cannot talk to the man without him putting me back 19 years to this time he would belittle me and make me feel worthless so talking to him is not an option and he would love to know how much I am suffering. Its so very difficult but I don't think I can just give up.

Thank you - that's good to know

Hi pennyh so have you had to give up? Is it explained that there are no guarantees or do the courts just go through the motions?
What would you have done differently and I wonder why there is this process if it can be ignored by the parent anyway?
Thank you for taking the time to chat.

TracyB I do not think court is the answer, in fact it would put further strain on already fragile relationship. Write letters to both your children, apologise, even if not in wrong, say you miss them and see what happens, if you get no reply send cards and gifts for all of them each birthday and Christmas, try not to break your heart if you have truly tried everything to put matters right, but make a different life for yourself. Good luck.

Back again! Sorry I left so abruptly, but something came up all of a sudden. Now it's ok.

Anyhow, Tracy, what I'm saying is that you must have some memory of the events of 19 years ago, even if you feel you did nothing wrong (I'm sure you didn't, you sound like a lovely lady) or that you made mistakes but they're too far in the past to matter. Perhaps there's something that (still) bothers your X or that he's pretending still bothers him. Or maybe he has blown it up all out of proportion. and you know that but the young people don't. In any of these cases, once again, I'm so very sorry.

Ladies, lucky for me I've never faced this situation, so I may not understand it, at all. In fact, I'm having trouble grasping how anyone can turn a son or daughter so totally against a parent - even if it's another parent doing it! Especially if the targeted parent has an overall good relationship with their son or daughter to begin with. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me there must have been some serious or ongoing issues there before the X or whoever said anything and maybe the X' words just brought it all to a head. NOT saying "it's all your fault" or making any accusations, just saying there may be more going on here than just your X' influence.

Be that as it may, Tracy, that's why I agree with the previous advice to focus on your relationships with your son and daughter before you think about going to court over your GS. In fact, IF there were previous issues between you and your son and daughter, etc., this would very likely come out in court, anyway. So better, IMO, to try to deal with them now (I realize you may have tried).

Also, as this thread shows, some GPs do get contact orders. But every case is different, so I agree with PPs that if you decide to go that route, you shouldn't do it w/o getting some sound legal advice first.

And I hate to say it, but the rift between you and your son may not help your case. If he appears to agree with his X about the visits, then that may count against you. I don't know, of course, if the mere rift itself would work in XDIL's favor or if he would have to come to court and testify one way or the other. This is one of the things you need legal advice on.

Tracy, I can't help but think you must have some idea of what your X complained about, even if you don't agree with his version of events. But gotta go... back later...

Tracy, I'm a little confused. You tell us in your OP: " My son lives in Dubai and hasn't spoken to me for 3 years now.."

But later you say, "hence we are very close." Did you mean you and your son or you and your GS are close?

Also, you tell us this all stems from something your X told your son and daughter that was then transmitted to XDIL. But you also say she has blocked access to GS for both you AND your son. Perhaps there is more going on here than meets the eye? Maybe it has more to do with issues between her and your son than any concerns she may have, unfortunately, about you?

Your best bet may be to wait till she and your son work out their differences - they may have to do it legally - before you try to improve your situation. Frustrating but possibly true.

I do feel for all of you in such sad situations. Going to Court is a big decision and if it was me I'd get some free advice from the CAB or a local solicitor before proceeding.
I work in a child contact centre and we do have grandparents who have been Ordered to come here. We do everything we can to enable the contact to work - part of which is that we don't discuss the past, the contact is about making the children comfortable in the situation. So far all grandparent contacts have been successful and have moved on to contact outside the centre. I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do. X

We are in a similar position, but whatever the courts stipulate in regards to seeing your grandkids, you can't make the mother adhere to it.
She can and will make up excuses or deliberately be out when you are allowed to see them. Make out they are ill etc.
Then you have the problem of what she will have said to them if she does agree to you seeing them.
Like you one of our grandkids lived with us for 3 years and we had a close bond with him. But within a couple of weeks of the rift ( for no reason) he was blanking us when we saw him out and now we know he has been told to hid from us.
We have been threatened with the police too.
Personally as much as we are hurting, our grandkids are our main concern and they have to live with my daughter and her latest partner and we do not want them to be used as rope in a tug of war.Our eldest is 13 and we are hoping he will be able to make up his own mind about matters soon.
But legal is not the way to go, but I do know how desperate you feel though.

We are in a similar position and have taken, very expensive, legal advice. We went for mediation but no joy from son's ex partner. We then applied for permission to take it to court to apply for contact with our two grandchildren who we've been separated from after a very close relationship with them, however, mum denied us even the access to proceed as far as court! She's a very vindictive person and we told our solicitor this but feel we weren't fully informed of what might happen, he's just happy to take our money. The advice above sounds much better, wish we'd seen it earlier.

Thank you all I shall take some time to mull over all your thoughts before I do anything . so sad so many of us in this position

How about starting somewhere by writing her a letter reminding her of what you were like when they were staying with you?
You need to concentrate on the positives & not the negatives...no accusations but just a straight forward unemotional letter asking her why after all this time after spending time with you with your GC would she just take the word of your ex-husband?
This might just open up the conversation or at least make her think

I went to court, got a contact order... You can do it yourself, just contact your local court office and ask for the forms it is £60 for the MIAMS form (mediation) and £295 to go to court - you have to obtain leave from the court to apply for a contact order, I have only heard of one person who has been declined this... You do not need solicitors, we went for a 30 min free appointment - or go to CAB for legal advice, but you do not need it, the forms are very easy to complete - don't let people frighten you off - If you have no contact or are being childishly ignored by the so called adults what have you go to loose, I know two people who have just been given contact... go for it!

tracy if all this upset has been caused by something your ex told your son/DiL and daughter then you need to get to the heart of this. What on earth could he have said that would make them react so strongly?

Rather than go to court for visitation rights I would address this issue first.

If you can refute his allegations and prove them to be viscious lies then everything else would surely be sorted. Firstly you need to find out what was said I would think.

emmamelbourne
Glad you have some better news and hope all goes well

Apologies - it's posted to wrong forum topic.

I HAVE AN UPDATE!

He finally told his mother. Apparently only because one of his friends told him "this is happening" and that he needed to tell his mother. (He made a point of telling me that my emails and updates on baby Sophia's scans or requests for him to tell his mother had nothing to do with it.)

She requested that she wanted to meet me, and so we went around there and I like her. She's lovely. And she wants to know baby Sophia, and wants to be in her life.

She was trying to offer me financial help or to buy things I might need, when that is the last thing on my mind. I just wanted her to be able to be in Sophia's life, and vice versa for Sophia to be in her life. She'll be a lovely grandmother, and I think she'll love having little Sophia in her life.

What a relief.

Baby's father is still oscillating between being somewhat helpful and being in a state of semi-denial. Sigh.

I've got some dramas with baby Sophia measuring a bit small, and she may be naturally small or she may be developing growth restriction and need to come out a wee bit early. I have a scan next week to check her growth and chart it against previous scans.

However she has good blood flow and heart rate, healthy on all tests, and I have perfect blood pressure and health. So it's only that she is a wee bit small which is of minor concern, but they'll get her out early if they think she's not getting optimal nutrition and they say she'll be fine if she comes out at 32-34 weeks worst case scenario. (I'm 29 weeks at present.)

I just wanted to thank everyone on this forum who wrote. Your advice kept my patience going with the baby's father, to stay the course in the hope he would tell his mother.

I hope he bonds with Sophia when she is born, and plays a role in her life as her Dad, but it's also great to know she has a lovely grandmother too. (I've yet to meet the grandfather, but he sounds nice too.) I will try and facilitate them seeing Sophia as much as they like.

So thank you Gransnet forum posters.

x Emma

Oh, my dear, I am so sorry for you and do hope that things will eventually sort themselves out, although I honestly have to realistically agree with what others have said. Part of my estrangement with my two daughters was due to the poison poured into their ears during visits to my ex when they were teenagers with the result that I have only once seen my grandson and they haven't spoken to me for 20 years, apart from cutting me dead at my mother's funeral when I tried to build bridges with them. It will always hurt, but all you can do is learn to live with the pain.

It can be very difficult for children of estranged parents to not take sides, especially when one parent is being so vindictive. In the heat and of a good row things are said in a collapsing marriage which aren't necessarily true. (On both sides!). Perhaps your ex is raking these up? I think you need to know exactly what your ex is saying, or else how can you defend yourself. Surely your DC would want to know your side? Surely they know you well enough to judge for themselves whether you're a good person?

Have you tried writing to your DC explaining your feelings and asking for an explanation of what you've done? A handwritten letter is very difficult to ignore.