toddler tantrums

I've never forgotten the day a health visitor found me in a howling heap trying to force food into my Daughters mouth ( she was a very fussy eater)
The health visitor said: No child ever staved it's self.
This is the 6 yr old who came home Friday with the knees in her tights cut.
She told my Daughter that she wanted to be a teenager!

I don't think children love you more because you let them have their own way. Children with rules are much happier than children without them. I have many examples of very young children who could easily work out who was a soft touch and who wasn't. It was explained to me many years ago that a child with no rules is running free and doesn't know which way to go but a child with rules was as if it was walking along a path with boundaries and as a result felt more secure.

My youngest GC eats everything except melon and I think this is because no one has ever made a fuss about food. The others have lots of things they don't eat when with their mother but very few when with their father. Children learn from an early age how to manipulate!

We always gave them their meal and if they didn't eat it they saw us put it in the bin. There was only watery drinks then until the next meal. I wouldn't give fruit or milk as that could assuage their appetite. We never made a fuss or tried to persuade them to eat. Of course if they did eat their meal there was always something nice to follow but still no comment.

Before he became properly articulate, DGS sat in his high chair, looked at his nice plate of scrambled egg and toast then winged it across the room.
The dog enjoyed it though.

When he became articulate, as a small toddler, DS1 would stand up in his cot and shout 'Hungy, Mummy, hungy!' When asked what he wanted for breakfast, it would be,'a egg and a owinge' which was fine by me as that's what I was planning to give him.

I remember DSIL asking toddler DGS what he wanted on his toast, when DGS could barely speak aged about 22 months.You don't ask, you give them the food that you decide they should have at a young age.

NotTooOld, yes I remember it was like that for me too, my gran looked after me and she was fierce and strict I had to eat what was put down or do without and I had to clean the plate too or I would get a long lecture on waste with maybe a clip around the ear. there were no choices in the 50s.

Must remember that with DGD, although her mother gives in frequently and asks her what she wants.

So true, Jalima

They can be so contrary though - I served DGD a very small portion of sprouts (cut in half) with her dinner. She announced 'my sister likes these but I don't quite emphatically. I said, that's OK, you can leave them. She ate them.
The next time I gave her sprouts (a couple of weeks later) she said 'Oh, I love these' and left the carrots which were the only vegetable she would eat a few weeks ago (apart from peas).

Ignore tantrums and controlling behaviour (as long as the child is safe!!) and give plenty of extra attention to you DGD when she is behaving well!

No toddler or pre-schooler has starved themselves!
suggestion Prepare what you know she really likes for lunch, even if it is toast and jam, for a few meals to break the habit of her being able to scream and yell and take control of you.
Then after a couple of days add a couple of extra (little) things (to whatever it is she will eat) and expect her to eat them before a 'treat' dessert. e.g a few(not a packet!) chocolate buttons. Do not give her the treat unless she has eaten the small plate of food you expect her to eat.

I found my DGS went through a refusal phase so I gave him all his lunch at once: cheese sandwich, chopped apple, carrot sticks and yogurt. He ate it all in the order he chose which was often yogurt first!

It seems commonplace these days to ask children what they would like to eat and then provide it. I wonder if this makes the children into picky eaters? My mother used to decide what we were having, cook it, and put it in front of us. We usually ate whatever it was as we were always hungry. I mostly did the same with my two but my DD did go through a phase, when she was about two, of eating only apples, cheese and yoghurt. This phase lasted about 6 months but as it seemed quite a healthy diet I let her get away with it. She is now 37 and has never needed a tooth filled and I do wonder if that is due to the diet she chose at a young age.

She won't starve - honestly! They never do. Offer her a meal (in fairness something that you know she likes) - if she doesn't want it then just take it away and get on with the afternoon's activities. Ignore her refusal completely. If she announces she is hungry later then just place the meal back on the table. No messing - don't let her manipulate you. No snacks etc.

GS2 who is just three tends to finish arguments by saying "I love you Granny" with an angelic smile. Works every time!

btw I meant to add that as DGD was on the way home she said, ' you're a super grandma'. That meant more to me than winning the lottery. priceless.

Each generation seems to have a more liberal upbringing than the last:I fear for the next generation!

thanks again for the advice, DGD had a sleepover with me last night and was super, she always eats breakfast at my house and really tucks in so no probs and the night before she had a good tea. I can only assume that like someone said, she may have had a good snack at nursery and is not very hungry when I have her for lunch and the other night when she had total meltdown , I assume she was really tired out. DD says she slep for almost 10 hours. I feel that I am learning every day with her Im sure DD was not like this

I'm so sorry you're going through this ethelbags. I think you've gotten a lot of good advice here and I hope it helps. I want to add that I think part of the problem here is that you're watching DGD very often - probably cuz DD works? - even through her dinnertime. You want to be a fun GM, but when we take care of our DGC a lot, I think we have to do some disciplining. I watch my own DGC often, so I know how hard this can be for a GM. But my DD and I both agree that it's necessary.

That being said, IMO, it would be ok for you to offer your DGD her favorite foods, every time, for a while, as long as we're not talking about chocolate and other junk foods. I don't think either you or DD should make too much of it if she doesn't eat, If she's really hungry, she will.

I agree with you that attention is good - but the positive kind, like when she sings for you and so forth - not the negative kind, like when she won't eat.

Another thought - I don't know how many hours DGD is in nursery, but if she has lunch and snacks there, maybe she's truly not hungry at her usual dinnertime. Maybe it has to be adjusted? If DD is ok with it, maybe you can just wait until she says she's hungry for a few days and see where her new eating time may be? Just a thought...

These things do seem to be phases. We had never seen our DGS have a tantrum until he came to live with us. What an eye-opener! (I can honestly say I cannot recall our DDs throwing a wobbly like that so it was very new.) We were at our wits end at the time but looking back the tantrums were spread over only a few weeks then he was his usual lovely self again. There has been a big change in his short life, he is four in March. We have noticed over the last couple of weeks that sometimes he resorts to outright defiance, especially at bedtime. Very rude of him, we are trying to find a way through this one.(We think it may be because he spent extra time with his father over Christmas. He lets him go back downstairs after he has been taken to bed. He also has a TV in his bedroom there which his Mum disapproves of but cannot do anything about as it is all about the bloke being in control).

Sometimes when they have started a new activity like nursery or school they are extra tired when they come home. It's as if working out the rules and boundaries in an unfamiliar setting means they have run out of "good-ness" by the time they get home! As others have said clear boundaries are so important, without them children aren't sure who is keeping them on track, that can make them anxious and then they feel the need to step into the driving seat themselves....we wouldn't let them do that in an actual car would we!? Having said all that, it can be hard to get that balance between firm and kind with youngsters as well as not upsetting/offending their parents either....it's a minefield. Good luck grannies....and that includes me!

I will try to take the advice I have read, it all makes sense but I have seen my DD almost in tears when the little one will not eat. She says there will never be any more children.
Don't get me wrong DGD is lovely she regularly gets rewards from nursery for good behaviour and I can take her out to someones house where she will be sooo good and of course everyone offers a toddler a biscuit which she loves so there are no tantrums. I will just have to be stronger and more assertive with her.

Do not start offering a choice unless you know there is something she reaelly detests. Find out what she will eat.

As far as possible make sure she eats what the rest of the household are eating, or if it's a snack tea a sandwich or such. Offer a limted choice. "We have cheese, ham or egg which would you like and if she chooses one but then rejects it tough.
Ignore tantrums don't try to reason with her in the middle of one. be matter of fact. Just say something like, "I am not going to talk to you when you're making that silly noise come and talk to me when you have finished." and try to go away yourself as long as she is somewhere safe.

My DGS is being a threenager at present and I think my daughter is being a bit too nice with him when he is having a tantrum.
Right now I am tempted to talk to DD about not engaging with him when he is having a melt down. With such a strategy you need to expect the behaviour to get worse until they realise you are not putting up with it. Above all stay calm.

Our little ones get served a meal that we have discussed in advance. So they will come to the fridge and we will have a look in and then we build a meal around their preferences. For the older ones , they know that they will not get anything else if they eat no dinner. I'm not a believer in either cajoling 'one more bite' or saying 'you must eat everything'. But it is clear that all the nice stuff does not get offered until a decent stab at the main course has taken place.

With the little ones, they often help me cook or lay the table . We always eat with them and that's when we chat about stuff. Often they eat without realising.

The one rule we do have is that there is no 'grazing' . Snack time is at 10:30 and 15:00 and we have a little clock that says so. Im super lucky in that all 4 of my DGC will eat any fruit going , so I always have a selection for them and as long as they have some fruit as a snack they can also take a chocolate biscuit or crisps.

We have a saying in our house = we don't negotiate with terrorists :-) so if anyone wants to have a melt down ( including DH) its off to the naughty step whilst we get on with something super exciting. Its amazing how quickly a tantrum will stop when starved of attention and when something FAR more exciting is going :-)

Good luck !!

I am quite firm with behaviour and use the naughty step when necessary. One 4 yr old has a will of iron but a spell on the naughty step until he calms and says sorry definitely works for me. We don't give in to the tears and nose stuff dripping off his chin. When he calms and says sorry we all hug and it's over.

He loves us and at home time wants to stay longer.

Not eating a meal which I know he normally eats = no treats. Nothing else is offered.

Boundaries are vital, it won't stop her loving you.

Another idea: is she old enough to 'help' you in the kitchen when you are preparing lunch? She might be more attracted to her food if she is either watching or taking a hand in it.

I feel for youethel my DGD was acting up when I saw her yesterday and my DS was disciplining her, I so wanted to step in, but I know she is a strong-willed little girl and if she is allowed to rule the roost she will do, and it is my DS and DIL who have to live with her, so I stepped back. I'm afraid you have to harden your heart, cut out the pud and cakes and offer healthy foods. If she refuses these she has to go without. I do think if you are not careful you will have a situation where she plays you and the other GPs off against her parents. You could offer other rewards for eating, my DGD loves stickers, or when she is dancing say something like "I think you were better than ever today it must be those carrots/fruit/cheese you ate." Good luck and stay strong. (DGD was fine after much protesting and loves her daddy very much-children actually like boundaries. The world is a scary place without them)

Sound advice Deedaa.