DIL advice

Gosh what a minefield. I am a DIL and a MIL. My MIL had a lot of issues but then so have I. I don't think I cut my MIL much slack and as we didn't live near by she didn't see much of me or her GCs. She told me ( as soon as we announced our engagement) that she didn't want me to marry her son as he wasn't old enough. It was a extremely stupid thing to say and set the tone of our future life together. Actually she was probably right but it was his decision and I was his choice, so at all costs she should have kept stum.

With hindsight I look back on my relationship with my MIL and forward to the relationship that I have with my DILS with a bit more insight. I never felt relaxed with her and hated going to her house. She proceeded to stick a small drawing pin in me on many occasions.
However, now I have sons with partners and see them bossed around by their wives, I have a little bit of sympathy for my MIL. She has dementia now.

Your children are yours forever but their partners are thrust upon you. If anyone of them have issues, then it could be that whatever you do or say, won't be any good.
So what's the answer? I think it is to ' be your self'

Why not? You can't win, so you might as well be yourself. Not selfish but congruent. That way, eventually your MIL will realise something about you.... you are here for the duration and you are not going away and you are someone who can't be played games with.
You have all the cards really as you have sex with her son. She does love her son like you love yours though. She may well be jealous and insecure. Mine was.

So relax, don't try and second guess what is going on in her mind and concentrate on your own life. Be polite, but above all be yourself.
I have a DIL who doesn't know who she is and consequently it is difficult to know where my Dh and I stand. The others are congruent and confident which makes them easier to deal with. Xxx

Thank your lucky stars she is abroad !!!! Mine lived too close for comfort and even changed houses on one occasion to the next but one road to us (hubby only son !!!). Before we married I heard her tell her friend she did not like me and boy, was that obvious for the next 35 years. Sneyd remarks out of earshot of her Son which I did not pass on for fear of hurting him. The best and most memorable remark on the day after our daughter was born and MIL visited us in hospital - "What a beautiful baby" them turning to me "You HAVE surprised me". There were various long periods when she just did not visit and my husband finally realised what she was like when she actually ignored him in the street ! Oh my, I could go on..... I really did try but to no avail. Her biggest problem was a deep seated jealousy of almost everyone and I was by no means her only enemy - friends and family who all eventually lost patience. It got worse when she was widowed and by then lived 20 miles away but expected her Son to do all the jobs FIL had done. She was so silly because she lost out on two smashing grandchildren. It all blew up eventually and she and I had no contact for the last five years of her life but I made very sure that hubby regularly visited. All in all, very sad but it made me determined to be a good MIL when my turn came and my DIL and my SIL and I have a really, really super relationship. Accept that you can't win 'em all.

I love what mulberry ruth said about asking your MiL to repeat anything she says that might be offensive. That way you can have a calm conversation about it, & give her the opportunity to think about what she's saying and how it could be received. Oh, and you must try to stay calm and be mature - even if she can't. Possibly easier said than done, but very important. It is like having a child- you have to "model good behaviour"...

Also loved what NannaM said about moving to a new country. What an interesting viewpoint!

Hi Swim, this is a tough one! I can see things from both sides. Firstly, congrats to your hubby for choosing an Ozzie girl. From my amazing 4 month trip there a few years ago, IMHO if a young man wants a true partner for life he can't go wrong marrying an Australian girl. The one thing that I was told over and over was that Australians will give you a fair chance.
So. This woman has an only son who has moved across the world. To a (sometimes) harsh, hot, unfamiliar place where equality rules, and money and class have no weight at all. Where people are proud to say that an ancestor was a transported convict. Refreshingly different. But very difficult to wrap ones head around when one is a lonely, desparate older woman who is starting an emigration process to a place which is so incredibly different and where she has absolutely no power at all. Where she is judged on how she is, not who she is or what money she has. And even her son now has another more important woman in his life.
She needs to shape up or ship out, quite frankly. But maybe you and your husband can gently explain how things are going to be if she moves to Oz.
If I were her, I would welcome this amazing opportunity. She is so lucky to have a son and DiL who are compassionate enough to open their hearts, home and wallets to her.
I speak of what I know......18 years ago, my daughter and SiL sponsored me to come to Canada. I was 50. Different culture, hemisphere, continent, you name it. It took some work and adjustment. I am now a proud Canadian.
Maybe you can get your hubby to cut and paste this response and send it to your MiL.
Best of Luck.

If things can't be sorted out, I would definitely not go ahead with helping her to get to Oz. (I'm assuming that she would not get a permit to live there unless you and DH sponsor her?)

If she takes the huff about that, who cares, she'll be hundreds of miles away from you and no loss.

I really feel for you SwF and pity your MiL. I have 3 sons and one proper DiL. Having her in my life has been such a change I've lived for so long with just males another female is just great. No we don't agree all the time but I am so pleased to see my DS loved and cared for and she has given me 2 fantastic GCs. All I can say to you is try to stay strong and united with your DH. You have done your best to build a relationship with your MiL, so you are entitled to step back. Send her regular messages and photos of her GC but don't ask questions or expect answers. If she continues to call you 'she' say very firmly could you use -(your name) please. If she then goes on saying 'she' tell her very firmly you will cut off the call unless she changes and if it continues, do that. You do hold all the cards. I think perhaps you need to stop trying to see things from her point of view and focus on yourself and your little family. When she realises she isn't causing so much upset she may well behave better.

Hi SwimwithFish - it is not easy having a MIL who has toddler tantrums when things do not go her way, as well I remember! It taught me to behave differently to my son's girlfriends and I can truthfully say that - they have all been decent, hard-working girls - there is not one I would not have welcomed as a DIL...still waiting for this to happen though!

Whatever you decide to do,if things do not get any better, I would personally suggest paying a (well qualified and experienced) counsellor to help you all stand back from the situation, and see the wood for the trees. If your MIL will not go with you,ask your DH so you can work out how best to move forward together towards a more positive outcome. Understanding other people's perspectives - and finding out what has influenced their behaviour - can help you manage the situation,become more tolerant, and not get so upset with what is not your fault.I now know my own MIL's father was killed in an accident when she was 13. Her mother was not a strong character, and had trouble coping as a single parent of 4 children. Good luck.

Ok, I'm going to step in, I am a MIL and I've been told Im paassive agressive, manipulative, Narcissistic and undermine my DIL, they gave me 4 beautiful GDs and I did not know any of this until after 10 years and there was a huge blowup, now I asked how am I being these things I was accused of and DS can give me no situations so how am I to know what I've done? This situation has been going on on and off for 2 years now, we live 25 minutes apart, love my GC to death but my DH and I are now only allowed birthdays and some holidays to see them with maybe a overnight once during the year. This situation landed us in a therapist office at the request of my DS after they had gone. My DD and I went and later my DH and I went. I dont know ifvthis would apply tobyour circumstances but therapist explained to us thst my DIL was an indepent person and my DS comes from an enmeshed family, he describes it like a small town and the lone visitor comes into the town and either molds in with the town or remains a liner or town accepts the loner or turns they're back. Therapist said there is nothing wrong with either except in situations where therevis no molding together, my DS is torn he loves his wife but is having to turn his back on his family. We were all suppose to go back to therapist but DIL refused. I've stepped clear back no contact at all, DIL is still posting things where I can see (Pinterest) they disabled their facebook accounts. My DH and I are heartbroken, my GDs ask when they see us when can we come to your house? If there is a way to work it out, try, life is so short. When this all hsppened I was shocked at the large large numbers of MIL and DIL problems there are out there. Not to say we MILs can be reallly bad I'm not putting all blame on DIL but when you cant sit down and discuss it the wall just keeps getting higher and who suffers?

I had problems with my MIL - she even hit me and locked me in a room!I decided that I would not let her see that she had an effect on me; I would visit, with my husband, but I would not join in conversations. I would smile, and sit there looking aggresive, but also not allowing her any ammunition to hurl at me.

I would then go home and make the best bread ever! Kneading dough is a really wonderful therapy!

I am a step MIL and fortunately have a good relationship with my step family.
We had our problems years ago when they were both imature but since their children have arrived theyve both "grown up" and even expressed regret at the way they behaved. I count my blessings now for having them in our lives.
Im also Step mom to my husbands lovely daughter. Again problems in the past and again she has apologised profusely and nòw we are very close. Again I count my blessings fof having her in our lives.
I say all this because I can see how much your MIL is missing by her appalling behaviour. I agree that it must be sorted out by her son even before she moves to OZ. Sending very best wishes to you and yours Swim. Its good to talk here as sometimes it helps to clarify our heads when everything is swimming around
iin a confused way.

Oh dear silly women she is. What a great opportunity for her to relocate to be nearer her son and family and she doesn't seem to appreciate it. Don't make contact she's at fault you've tried so give her a bit of space to realise how silly she is being. Good luck

I think it is very hard for a young woman to grasp that there is a certain type of woman who sees a DIL as someone who has taken their son away. When you are young and in love it seems very odd for someone to be so possessive. Sons are not substitute husbands. When widowhood is thrown into the mix then it gets even odder. I never could grasp why my mil felt that DH should escort her to a ball or cut her lawn or sort out her finances. Being someone with a widowed mother of my own who was independent and generous with her love for my brother's various wives i had trouble understanding her.I would be wary of having your mil in close proximity.

I have to say that you hold all the cards. My advice to you would be to stay calm, be fair and firm. Look at all the worry this is causing you. You don't need it and instead of being supportive she is causing you distress. There may be many reasons but jealousy is usually lurking there somewhere. Remember you have her son and grandchild, but you are the wife and mother. She needs to move into her new role if indeed she has the wisdom/desire to do so. If she comes to stay for long periods of time she is in your space and things/ routines should carry on as usual. If she says something which makes you feel negative ask her to repeat it in a calm manner, she will then realise that you understand her comments for what they are but are not afraid to hear them and she will seem petty when she hears her words for the second time. Say things like 'I'm sorry I didn't quite catch that', 'can you clarify what you are saying etc..... Be strong, as I said before you hold all the cards.

Hi SimwithFish. I have a wonderful SIL and also a wonderful DIL. BUT I have another DIL who sounds just like your MIL. She lies and manipulates my son and has caused countless problems within what was our very close family. I have tried everything with her, but I am afraid she has now caused so much hurt, I won't stay at the house. My son is a wonderful caring father to his two children, but she still makes him feel he is a bad father and husband. Can't go into too much detail, but she is a witch!!! They have separated a couple of times, but each time get back together, having sorted none of their differences.
Good luck to you with your MIL.

Thank you all so much for your lovely words of encouragement. I was hoping we could all get along but that might take a while.
I've taken your words on board and will have a chat with hubby about how we will proceed from here- maybe waiting a few more weeks before we make contact and after a few (hopefully good) conversations he can chat with her about her move and expectations.
Thank you all again for taking the time to comment!

I feel so sorry for you- I have 2 wonderful DiL & I love them to bits. I'm not sure I'd be too happy to have her in Oz- what happens when she gets older & needs help. Sounds as if you will be the carer if you're not careful.I think you need to establish some boundaries right now- or your husband does anyway. I'm sure she loves him deep down but she should see you as her ally not her enemy. I'm not saying that the relationship between Mil & DiL is easy- it has to be worked on but it has to be based on mutual respect. I am very careful to always take the view that DiL is right in all decisions about child rearing & never give advice unless I am asked. Consequently we all get on very well indeed & the children come to stay with us a lot & are encouraged to do so by their parents- we don't live far away from them.
Your priority is your child & husband & if she can't respect that then I would have as little to do with her as possible & only ever see her in company- never alone with her as she will twist all you say.
I do wish you well- hopefully things will improve as your baby gets older & she can start to relate to her GC.
Good luck.

This is a nightmare situation. She has no right to treat you like this. I think there are two things going on here. She blames you for taking her Son away and therefore refuses to acknowledge you. She has money so thinks she can treat you however she likes and you'll both 'take it' as you'll want her money when she's gone.

Since she's rejecting you, the only recourse is for her Son to tackle her by being frank. She needs to understand that you and your children are now the focus of her Son's life and that's as it should be. It would be worth slipping into the conversation that you are financially independent. She won't like it and she may fall out with you for a while. However, that will give her thinking time and I feel sure she'll come round.

She needs to accept that her chick has 'flown the coop'. I have three sons who are all settled with their wives and partners and it's sure hard letting your 'babies' go but it's the circle of life. If there is no 'straight talking' at this stage nothing will change. If there is going to be time of 'falling out' it would be unkind to not explain why to her. Deep down, she probably knows anyway.

A kind but heartfelt email from your Son is probably best as she can't interrupt or argue with him the way she's doing on Skype. I think it's important that her Son gets across to her that she's still very loved but his relationship with her has changed (or grown) and that when she's unkind to you, it hurts him. In my experience, stubborn people can take straight talking... maybe even an ultimatum. She needs to be told that she's interfering and insensitive to you both and that you're trying to find ways to avoid her because of her approach. Harsh, but she needs to know. Her Son should then ask her to respond to his email by email. That way she has to read it slowly. It's unlikely that the rest of her family will be disapproving as they've probably seen her attitude for themselves.

You, your husband and your MIL are all unhappy anyway regarding this situation so you may as well be unhappy with at least the hope that things are going to be better by straight talking.

Bless you - you shouldn't have to be dealing with this, especially post-partum. You sound like a really nice person to me. .

Best of luck to you.

Hi. I had this problem with mine.
All I can say is this- you hold all the cards! I struggled and was upset all the time and felt she was trying to push me out. A friend told me this- The child is yours and she is going to have to play by your rules. Mine was exactly the same. In the end I stood up to her and we seem to get along well ish now. Took 5 years. You and she are trying to learn your roles and its seems she's finding it hard not to be 'The Mother'. The more you put up with rude behaviour from a grown up it will only get worse. Don't be nasty back but firm. If you and your husband stand united she will come round or lose out. It's like having a child with some mil. Ignore/ deal with bad behaviour and reward good! Good luck.

Yes, this is very sad you and your husband have tried your best. I too feel I would not be helping her to move. She has not taken up your sensible advice of staying for six months she could rent somewhere, if she has no financial worries. My MIL did not like me one bit and was rude and disrespectful and when we confronted her she used to go to bed her bed and said we made her ill. My husband and I both tried to make things better for all of us and GKs but the situation never improved. My DH is the eldest of five and we did a lot for my MIL but all we got back was upset. Ironically she one day decided to visit relatives in Australia. She upset them a great deal she moved out to someone else and then said she was ill and wanted to come home. All those years ago flights were for say six months. At the time none of us had much money, communications were slow and DH had great difficulty getting her back home. When I first met MIL we had some nice days but these tailed off and it was nothing but headache time. You and DH need to think of your own family.

Phew. Firstly your husband is managing this so well. You are only just getting over the birth of your baby. It's a lot to manage and I am sorry you are having to. Can your MIL. come to Australie without your spinsorship? If not then she is being more than foolish in risking lack of contact with you all. It sounds as if lots of conversation is needed between you and your husband to agree a strategy and your own boundaries. If you hold to those life may get easier. Her own home is essential and probably a bad plan to let her have a key to yours. Ground rules from day one after her move. It's a bit like bringing up children, be clear and dont let manipulation happen . Your MIL is lucky you are thinking this through and not just rejecting her. Good luck to you all

Hi swimwithfish, I do hope you , your husband and your little one are okay. It sounds like your all getting really stressed about your mother in law . I can only imagine . I am a daughter , mother , and a mother in law so I now where you are coming from .You my dear sound like a very nice person trying to keep everyone happy except for yourself , to be honest you can't. First and foremost you really have to look after you, without you everyone and everything is going to suffer.I think your mil has her own issues , and she's need to back down a bit , it's going to be no good in the long run. I respect that your husband is her son but there are boundaries when sons and daughters take wives and husbands , parents need to take a back seat and if they don't this is where it goes wrong . We as mother in law's even if we don't like each goes wrong . you my dear are trying to keep the peace, but it's not your peace to keep , let your husband deal with his mum, if she realises what she will and is missing she might start thinking.Y our mother in law really needs to know her place. Some parents of grown up children don't get it. It is about respect. Your husband should stand and by your side in this situation

Very sad. Sounds like MiL very insecure but her actions are simply alienating her further. Does she have a relative in uk that your hubby could talk to? Use that relative to calmly tell her how her behaviours are ruining the relationship she has with her son's family (you and your children are his family now). My MiL didn't like me either and I asked her sister to talk to her. Things did get better but of course it was never warm. Hope this helps. Good luck.

I think you are right to sort this out now before your children are older. You can't let her show that type of behaviour in front of your children. About traditions re Christmas and such..you have a new family so you make your own traditions you do not have to fall in with hers she has to fit in with yours. I would never impose my will on my children or their families. You Hubby should tell her she is welcome to visit on these conditions that she is civil to you in your house and in front of the children,if she can't do that she's not welcome. I'm sorry but I would not be helping her get to Australia. Families are all about give and take and letting your grown up children live their own lives and be privileged to be part of it. Good luck.

Yep! Hubby has completely shown himself to be a amazing!
He is her only child, she has siblings all over Europe so moving is only to be closer to him. She didn't ask if she could move closer, or what we thought- she kind of just did it. We suggested doing 6months here and then there for a while until she decides if she actually will like living here- but like I said she's stubborn!
She is well off so financially she can do as she pleases and won't be dependent on us. I even asked if we have to move for hubbys job would she be ok here, she replied she would just move too. I quite like the distance, but was happy to have her closer for kids, until she showed her true colours. Now I'm expecting the worst when it happens!
Just don't think there's anything we can do (as I said she won't even discuss expectations- though come to think of it she mentioned have my child one day a week and going on holidays together. Hubby and I both shot that down- it's not how I parent). To be fair I was happy to leave her with Bub to run errands while she was here (until our blow up!) she blamed my hormones (2months post partum) rather than recognise her overstepping into the parent roles.

Are you her only family? Are you still sponsoring her to come out to Oz? Will you be taking on any financial responsibility for her?
All of this is huge and has incredible ramifications for every one of you if you move your 'problem' closer to you! You may never know peace again. In some instances distance is very much your friend.