DIL advice

*Not watched -should be 'each'

*Update: there have been some developments so thought I would bring an update with my situation-

After a few emails back and forth my DH reiterated he didn't like the way she spoke to me and she should reconsider her move over here. My MIL turned it on me, blaming me for things- and DH had had enough- so called her telling her it wasn't ok and he was withdrawing sponsorship. He did. It is done.
But now my MIL is apologising (but only to keep her sponsorship- she doesn't believe DH would do it) but she pushed him. She then sent an email explaining how she basically dislikes me and the role I have, saying she blames me for DH doing too much and my house is never clean. But wants to start afresh etc.

I have no doubt she only apologised and explained stuff to continue to be able to be here. Currently, we are taking a little bit of a break from the drama and hurt and not responding but will do so once DH feels like he wants to contact her. I also believe she blames me for everything- but that's her choice. I am sad things couldn't have been worked out but am learning that we have watched played a part of this with our choices and the way she felt resentful towards me would have blown up regardless. I was in a no win situation! Honestly, I don't think it was even about me- she would have found fault in anyone!

Swim It is a serious business to be battling for the future stability of your small family so you need to take care not to shoot yourself in the foot. Keep the distance and don't enable your MIL to continue her bad behaviour in your own country by sponsoring her. You will never be able to trust her and she will be intent on 'divide and rule'.

Often the very thing we want and hope to achieve just isn't possible simply because of the inability of other people to put the family unit before themselves and I think that this is such a situation based on your experiences to date. Leopards can't change their spots however much they want to or try.

SwF I feel so sorry for you. In such a difficult situation you are acting with heroic generousity. I already have the perfect DiL, but had I another son I would love to have you as a DiL, you sound so loving and generous. How lucky your DH and child are to have you as part of their family. Your DH sounds pretty amazing to be so supportive of you when his mother is the problem. Many a marriage has foundered on less.

I wish we could... But honestly I've tried and tried. I haven't even gone into detail about our big fight over my parenting etc...
Though I'm sure from her side I'm probably a whole lot of things too (this is just my point of view) I'm under no illusions that she has a long list of my faults too.
I am so grateful for everyone who has commented- it's helped me see that I can't get her to like me (so I have to be myself) and I'll just let hubby deal with her. If she wants to play nice and be respectful I'm absolutely happy to receive that (I actually welcome that and honestly want that for our family) and pick up that relationship but as it is, I can't have someone undermining my parenting and not respecting me as a person (let alone a wife and mother).
Hubby is still furious (& I think embarrassed) by her behaviour so he wants us on a bit of a time out from her to give us all a chance to cool down and hopefully she will change the way she speaks to us.
We aren't going to withdraw our sponsorship yet (but may do in the future depending on her behaviour) but she is an adult and can make her own choices over what's best in her life (just wish she had that same courtesy).
Just some thoughts- as a DIL, I wanted our family to be together, I desperately wanted her to like me (not love but just an acceptance of me into the family), to have our extended family at big events and part of our traditions, until that behaviour changes I have to change my own dreams for our family and focus on healthy people. I still pray things will change and that both our hearts will soften, but I can't be engaging so much effort into a toxic relationship.
I hope to be able to update you all with a positive change one day!!

Oh dear what a mess. Is she really that bad! Is there any way you could find some common ground for the sake of having the relationship you say you want, for yourselves, your husband and your children!

Don't worry about hurting her feelings or damaging the relationship.
If your MiL continues to be disrespectful and overbearing, she is the one who is hurting you and your hubby, and she is the one who is damaging the relationship.
I hope you can all sort it out - definitely don't put up with her behaviour.

If she comes, make sure she lives at least 50 miles away in an area with poor public transport.

A friend had MiL problems, similar, but not as bad as yours and she and her DH deliberately bought a property that her (non-driving) MiL could only reach by travelling on a train and two buses. It reduced visits as except in exceptional circumstances she was expected to make her own way to them and then back home.

Thanks again for all of your suggestions and for taking the time to comment.
The move is definitely not our suggestion.
Previous to the fight we had suggested a 3-6month 'holiday' move to trial whether my MIL would enjoy living here, to happen when she wanted, we would help her get short term accommodation etc. but she wouldn't hear any of it & decided she wanted to just pack up and move. The move is entirely my MILs idea, she didn't even ask our opinion- she misses her son and wants time with her GC. She won't listen to advice. She didn't enjoy the 2 week holiday she had here on her last few visits, and her last visit didn't go so great (she was 20mins away from us staying in a hotel) and she didn't use the experience to really see how she liked it- she complained how she wanted to stay back with us (was 20mins away, we saw her quite often after our resolution to our conflict). She doesn't really like change, thinks Aust is quite strange, doesn't enjoy the food, the culture or shopping (not that I can blame her after experiencing Europe and all its amazing things, so I didn't really hear anything positive. She is purely moving for her son and his kid/s.
We have tried all we can to suggest it might not be the greatest idea, as her expectation of being the Gran (child minding 1 day per week, having GC for weekends/holidays etc) is not quite what we want...but again, she shut down all talk of expectation and wouldn't engage in a discussion, so not much we can do!
At this point we just left it as she is an adult and can make her own choices- we are still going to live our lives the way we live (I'm a SAHM and no need for regular Childcare. I was quite happy to get her to babysit on the odd Occassion for a few hours and did so while she was here (before our blow up!).
However, my thinking is that her utter disrespect for me, and lack of adhering to our parenting guidelines (I'm quite a relaxed mum with not too many rules but times have changed and recommendations are now different to when she was a parent) and her enforcing her standards on me while she was in my house, leading to our big blow up, I'm not quite comfortable with babysitting just yet (With time and healing I expect that could change) but I don't think I will reward her tantrums and inability to communicate and respect our decisions.
To the PP whose MIL hit her and then still visited and said nothing, I just can't live like that/ I'm so sad for you to experience that.
Unfortunately I just can't sit back and be treated like rubbish and take it! I think it's sets a bad example. I am all about respecting our elders and to be honest she and her hubby did a wonderful job with my son, it's purely the behaviours now that I can't condone. How can you treat someone so awful and still expect to have a relationship. If anyone else treated me this way our friendship would be off, but I don't want to cut off- I want a mutual respectful relationship for the whole family.
Like others have suggested, I'm letting hubby take the lead. I'm no longer being her advocate (reminding him to contact or suggesting he email photos) if hubby wants to do it- he can and I won't stop, but I won't say anything. With the move I think I'll see if she continues, and if it's the same disrespectful behaviour we can discuss not sponsorING her (though that will be very hurtful to her and very damaging to our future relationship). It's all very sad, it's definitely not the relationship I had wanted. I think I have to take it not personally though that's very hard!

Does she have to move countries to live near you? It seems to me she is much better staying where she is because she will be moving to a country where she knows no-one and will be entirely dependent on you and your DH for her social life.

She does not sound to me like someone who will be good at settling herself into a new community and developing her own social circle and activities. Is the move her idea or yours? I think this decision should be carefully re-thought. You are in the frying pan, do not jump into the fire.

I think in the current situation having her live anywhere near you would be very unwise.

My first mother in law was like that and it created hell and rows for us as my husband took his mother's side too much. My second (current) husband's mother was rude to me soon after we met and my husband stood up and said right we are going, if you can't be civil to her we can't be here, when you want to behave, come and see us. She never was a problem again. These mother in law's have to realise their children are grown up and have their own lives. Your husband is doing very well defending you but he needs to give her an ultimatum. Either she behaves properly or she doesn't get invited, its then her choice. Tough love, but may work. Try not to stress while you are pregnant - enjoy your family. Good luck.

After I had been married for many years,my DH told me that his parents had asked if he was sure about marrying me as our personalities were so different.
He said he was sure and that was the end of it. They were excellent parents-in-law to me.

Have read some of the posts and can relate to them my own mother in law is 94 now and with my help is staying in her own home with me doing a full time job and her washing ironing.cooking banking ferrying around she was the mother in law from hell but now she needs me I'm the daughter in law that helps and without me she wouldn't be able to cope but I always said to my husband there was three people in our marriage and nothing has changed except the goalposts!! ?

Gosh what a minefield. I am a DIL and a MIL. My MIL had a lot of issues but then so have I. I don't think I cut my MIL much slack and as we didn't live near by she didn't see much of me or her GCs. She told me ( as soon as we announced our engagement) that she didn't want me to marry her son as he wasn't old enough. It was a extremely stupid thing to say and set the tone of our future life together. Actually she was probably right but it was his decision and I was his choice, so at all costs she should have kept stum.

With hindsight I look back on my relationship with my MIL and forward to the relationship that I have with my DILS with a bit more insight. I never felt relaxed with her and hated going to her house. She proceeded to stick a small drawing pin in me on many occasions.
However, now I have sons with partners and see them bossed around by their wives, I have a little bit of sympathy for my MIL. She has dementia now.

Your children are yours forever but their partners are thrust upon you. If anyone of them have issues, then it could be that whatever you do or say, won't be any good.
So what's the answer? I think it is to ' be your self'

Why not? You can't win, so you might as well be yourself. Not selfish but congruent. That way, eventually your MIL will realise something about you.... you are here for the duration and you are not going away and you are someone who can't be played games with.
You have all the cards really as you have sex with her son. She does love her son like you love yours though. She may well be jealous and insecure. Mine was.

So relax, don't try and second guess what is going on in her mind and concentrate on your own life. Be polite, but above all be yourself.
I have a DIL who doesn't know who she is and consequently it is difficult to know where my Dh and I stand. The others are congruent and confident which makes them easier to deal with. Xxx

Thank your lucky stars she is abroad !!!! Mine lived too close for comfort and even changed houses on one occasion to the next but one road to us (hubby only son !!!). Before we married I heard her tell her friend she did not like me and boy, was that obvious for the next 35 years. Sneyd remarks out of earshot of her Son which I did not pass on for fear of hurting him. The best and most memorable remark on the day after our daughter was born and MIL visited us in hospital - "What a beautiful baby" them turning to me "You HAVE surprised me". There were various long periods when she just did not visit and my husband finally realised what she was like when she actually ignored him in the street ! Oh my, I could go on..... I really did try but to no avail. Her biggest problem was a deep seated jealousy of almost everyone and I was by no means her only enemy - friends and family who all eventually lost patience. It got worse when she was widowed and by then lived 20 miles away but expected her Son to do all the jobs FIL had done. She was so silly because she lost out on two smashing grandchildren. It all blew up eventually and she and I had no contact for the last five years of her life but I made very sure that hubby regularly visited. All in all, very sad but it made me determined to be a good MIL when my turn came and my DIL and my SIL and I have a really, really super relationship. Accept that you can't win 'em all.

I love what mulberry ruth said about asking your MiL to repeat anything she says that might be offensive. That way you can have a calm conversation about it, & give her the opportunity to think about what she's saying and how it could be received. Oh, and you must try to stay calm and be mature - even if she can't. Possibly easier said than done, but very important. It is like having a child- you have to "model good behaviour"...

Also loved what NannaM said about moving to a new country. What an interesting viewpoint!

Hi Swim, this is a tough one! I can see things from both sides. Firstly, congrats to your hubby for choosing an Ozzie girl. From my amazing 4 month trip there a few years ago, IMHO if a young man wants a true partner for life he can't go wrong marrying an Australian girl. The one thing that I was told over and over was that Australians will give you a fair chance.
So. This woman has an only son who has moved across the world. To a (sometimes) harsh, hot, unfamiliar place where equality rules, and money and class have no weight at all. Where people are proud to say that an ancestor was a transported convict. Refreshingly different. But very difficult to wrap ones head around when one is a lonely, desparate older woman who is starting an emigration process to a place which is so incredibly different and where she has absolutely no power at all. Where she is judged on how she is, not who she is or what money she has. And even her son now has another more important woman in his life.
She needs to shape up or ship out, quite frankly. But maybe you and your husband can gently explain how things are going to be if she moves to Oz.
If I were her, I would welcome this amazing opportunity. She is so lucky to have a son and DiL who are compassionate enough to open their hearts, home and wallets to her.
I speak of what I know......18 years ago, my daughter and SiL sponsored me to come to Canada. I was 50. Different culture, hemisphere, continent, you name it. It took some work and adjustment. I am now a proud Canadian.
Maybe you can get your hubby to cut and paste this response and send it to your MiL.
Best of Luck.

If things can't be sorted out, I would definitely not go ahead with helping her to get to Oz. (I'm assuming that she would not get a permit to live there unless you and DH sponsor her?)

If she takes the huff about that, who cares, she'll be hundreds of miles away from you and no loss.

I really feel for you SwF and pity your MiL. I have 3 sons and one proper DiL. Having her in my life has been such a change I've lived for so long with just males another female is just great. No we don't agree all the time but I am so pleased to see my DS loved and cared for and she has given me 2 fantastic GCs. All I can say to you is try to stay strong and united with your DH. You have done your best to build a relationship with your MiL, so you are entitled to step back. Send her regular messages and photos of her GC but don't ask questions or expect answers. If she continues to call you 'she' say very firmly could you use -(your name) please. If she then goes on saying 'she' tell her very firmly you will cut off the call unless she changes and if it continues, do that. You do hold all the cards. I think perhaps you need to stop trying to see things from her point of view and focus on yourself and your little family. When she realises she isn't causing so much upset she may well behave better.

Hi SwimwithFish - it is not easy having a MIL who has toddler tantrums when things do not go her way, as well I remember! It taught me to behave differently to my son's girlfriends and I can truthfully say that - they have all been decent, hard-working girls - there is not one I would not have welcomed as a DIL...still waiting for this to happen though!

Whatever you decide to do,if things do not get any better, I would personally suggest paying a (well qualified and experienced) counsellor to help you all stand back from the situation, and see the wood for the trees. If your MIL will not go with you,ask your DH so you can work out how best to move forward together towards a more positive outcome. Understanding other people's perspectives - and finding out what has influenced their behaviour - can help you manage the situation,become more tolerant, and not get so upset with what is not your fault.I now know my own MIL's father was killed in an accident when she was 13. Her mother was not a strong character, and had trouble coping as a single parent of 4 children. Good luck.

Ok, I'm going to step in, I am a MIL and I've been told Im paassive agressive, manipulative, Narcissistic and undermine my DIL, they gave me 4 beautiful GDs and I did not know any of this until after 10 years and there was a huge blowup, now I asked how am I being these things I was accused of and DS can give me no situations so how am I to know what I've done? This situation has been going on on and off for 2 years now, we live 25 minutes apart, love my GC to death but my DH and I are now only allowed birthdays and some holidays to see them with maybe a overnight once during the year. This situation landed us in a therapist office at the request of my DS after they had gone. My DD and I went and later my DH and I went. I dont know ifvthis would apply tobyour circumstances but therapist explained to us thst my DIL was an indepent person and my DS comes from an enmeshed family, he describes it like a small town and the lone visitor comes into the town and either molds in with the town or remains a liner or town accepts the loner or turns they're back. Therapist said there is nothing wrong with either except in situations where therevis no molding together, my DS is torn he loves his wife but is having to turn his back on his family. We were all suppose to go back to therapist but DIL refused. I've stepped clear back no contact at all, DIL is still posting things where I can see (Pinterest) they disabled their facebook accounts. My DH and I are heartbroken, my GDs ask when they see us when can we come to your house? If there is a way to work it out, try, life is so short. When this all hsppened I was shocked at the large large numbers of MIL and DIL problems there are out there. Not to say we MILs can be reallly bad I'm not putting all blame on DIL but when you cant sit down and discuss it the wall just keeps getting higher and who suffers?

I had problems with my MIL - she even hit me and locked me in a room!I decided that I would not let her see that she had an effect on me; I would visit, with my husband, but I would not join in conversations. I would smile, and sit there looking aggresive, but also not allowing her any ammunition to hurl at me.

I would then go home and make the best bread ever! Kneading dough is a really wonderful therapy!

I am a step MIL and fortunately have a good relationship with my step family.
We had our problems years ago when they were both imature but since their children have arrived theyve both "grown up" and even expressed regret at the way they behaved. I count my blessings now for having them in our lives.
Im also Step mom to my husbands lovely daughter. Again problems in the past and again she has apologised profusely and nòw we are very close. Again I count my blessings fof having her in our lives.
I say all this because I can see how much your MIL is missing by her appalling behaviour. I agree that it must be sorted out by her son even before she moves to OZ. Sending very best wishes to you and yours Swim. Its good to talk here as sometimes it helps to clarify our heads when everything is swimming around
iin a confused way.

Oh dear silly women she is. What a great opportunity for her to relocate to be nearer her son and family and she doesn't seem to appreciate it. Don't make contact she's at fault you've tried so give her a bit of space to realise how silly she is being. Good luck

I think it is very hard for a young woman to grasp that there is a certain type of woman who sees a DIL as someone who has taken their son away. When you are young and in love it seems very odd for someone to be so possessive. Sons are not substitute husbands. When widowhood is thrown into the mix then it gets even odder. I never could grasp why my mil felt that DH should escort her to a ball or cut her lawn or sort out her finances. Being someone with a widowed mother of my own who was independent and generous with her love for my brother's various wives i had trouble understanding her.I would be wary of having your mil in close proximity.