Gentle Parenting

I've just had four weeks of the DGCs and I'm interested in seeing the way that dd2 's parenting differs from mine. I do think they see me as a childminder not as a grandparent who has valuable input for the children but as someone who will do exactly what the parent wants.
Here the children have not got out of bed until 7.00 from lights out at 7.45 pm. At home both children wake and get into parent' s bed. Now as obieone suggests their mum is lonely when their dad is away but she is shattered from interrupted sleep. She says she hates getting up to put them back in their own bed but I hate the fact that she is driving here with them when she is so tired.
Again the food they are so picky and don't like this or that or the other. I have been putting food, very small amounts in front of them,take it or leave it. Supreme indifference if they leave it and after their initial surprise that I wasn't going to cook anything else we seem to have clean plates. Sometimes a bit of cold blooded ruthlessness helps in bringing up children.

When our daughter was little, my two favourite sayings were: "Never let them outnumber you" and "Mummy always wins because Mummy is bigger!" That is, don't let them be the boss! Seemed to work well, because now she is grown up, she has a lovely husband, a fantastic job, lives in New York and we Skype every weekend and get on really well. Sorry, not terribly helpful, but you shouldn't let your children rule the roost and you have to look after yourself - if you aren't happy and are worn out, they won't be happy either. I don't mean they should come second all the time, but you need time for yourself and they shouldn't get in the way of that.

I am going sound quite smug here. My youngest daughter and her husband has 4 children. The oldest 14. The youngest 5. I visit them for a long week end accationally it is a joy to spend time with them.
The youngest asks to go to bed about 6.30 as he says he's tired. A bath a story then he goes to sleep and does not need someone with him till he goes to sleep
My daughter is fair and strict. Where no means no
You have Tojo start as you mean to go on from their early years.

washerwoman If we believed our daughters, our DCs would all be totally screwed up because we put our babies straight to bed after a feed and they will feel lonely.

I often felt that my very young GCs were somtimes so tired that the stimulation of continuing to sooth them was more stressful for them when they just wanted to be still and sleep. My own daughter in particular often showed this.

Manxgirl it may be worth you researching the growth hormone and its role in child development then you could perhaps have a discussion that sleepless nights do have a negative effect on children that their mum does not realise. If you do a search for google scholar rather than just google you will find some articles on there.

The growth hormone is released during the night hours of sleep and pandering to protracted sleep routines and bed sharing will not help a child learn to settle and develop a lifetimes ability and skill to get a good night sleep. It IS a skill and skills have to be taught and learned. It is difficult and discussions dicey. At the end of the day you may have to wait until exhaustion sets in, but in the meantime it will do no one any favours while the situation carries on.

Good luck.

My own children went to bed early after 1 story and a quick bath and they had nightlights on and slept til morning, unless they were ill of course. It was a routine I started when they were very young. Luckily my daughter is the same with her own children, but many of her friends are not. I suppose it's all down to personal preference so I wouldn't say anything if I were you. She will find out in time I think, that her bedtime and sleep habits may well lead to her frustration in the future when she needs time to herself and her kids are still demanding her attention.

My daughter is an advocate of 'Gentle Parenting', but in her eyes it all hinges on mutual respect and care between parents and child. She is quite firm with DGD, and doesn't let her rule the roost, but on the other hand, she is very patient with the little girl, gives her a lot of freedom, and will listen attentively to her when she is unhappy, even if she's in a strop through being overtired.

I look after DGD two days per week,and I am quite impressed by how good natured and well mannered she is at only 2 1/2. She's a happy and affectionate wee soul, and although she enjoys attention, she can amuse herself quite happily if given appropriate play materials.

That's not to say she's perfect - she's not a good sleeper and takes ages to settle at night. If she overnights with me, she always creeps into my bed, after which I don't hear a squeak, and that's fine by me, but I understand my daughter's wishes that she sleeps in her own bed at home - most of the time anyway!

It's such a common problem that tots won't settle in their own beds. I suppose on an evolutionary scale, we're still cavemen, and it's natural for us all to huddle together through the dark hours of the night. It's not surprising that so many children crave the comfort of another warm pelt beside them, so is it really a problem?

Anyway, gentle parenting or not, I really don't like to see spoiled brats who make their parents' lives a constant misery. I suppose that whatever fashionable name you give it, good parenting is always going to be a mixture of common sense and a great deal of love.

I stepped in on a similar issue. I asked permission to do so. My daughter was exhausted, and while the three-year-old has her twisted round his little finger, he is fine with me, listens to the boundaries I set, and his tantrums are fewer and shorter. (I am a long distance granny and they came to visit for ten days). I spoke clearly to my daughter and she was grateful, saying she may not take all my ideas on board but is listening. I took him off her hands as often as possible and she got some rest. This allowed her to get some clearheaded thinking time, and things are much better.

I've adopted the attitude that if they want to make a rod for their own back then they have to live with that. DD was like that with her first but they've become harder better over the years.

Their boys come for overnights quite often and I had a very strict bedtime regime; bath, story, teeth and toilet, bed and lights out after 15 minutes. Works a treat, even from babies, slightly adapted now they're older.

They used to ring up about 8.00pm to see how their little dears were doing, only to be told 'they've been asleep for the last half hour'. SiL has beeh known to ask 'Do you drug our children?' (jokingly I think)

Let them get on with it, they'll learn.

Watch the brilliant 'Three Day Nanny' on Channel 4. She is a Norland trained nanny...kind but very firm. She soon sorts the mothers out, and the children benefit from having boundaries, and from from less exhausted parents.

I think this child centred obsession is very boring and unhealthy for both parents and children. But I agree with other posters. It is probably not a good idea to interfere. My feeling is that I am a different role model for my grandchildren, and they can see other ways of doing things, that hopefully will benefit them.

My concern would be more for the children than the mother. What is this kind of parenting teaching them? That the world revolves around them and their every whim is indulged. The current thinking seems to be that children need to be taught resilience and self-reliance. You can't start that too young!

I am the luckiest Grandmother in the world and it is pure luck - (so far) two DDs have produced offspring (3rd yet to, fingers crossed) and both have brought up their children exactly as I brought them up. Both girls have busy lives and really do not have time to be able to spend all night soothing little ones. The children have a very definite bedtime routine, supper, bath, bed and a story then lights out and the door slightly ajar. The two little girls sleep thru until at least 7.30am - the boys are similar. Both DDs had early days when the babies refused to settle, they went in, did not take them out of their cots, but stroked them and said sleep now, put them back down and left. Now instead of having to get babysitters, they often take the children out with them as they will sleep anywhere so long as they have their cuddlies. I know they are lucky but they did work at it and it is what they wanted. Others who want to spend all night with their children can do that instead but the exhaustion on their faces is awful. I wonder what DD3 will do if she has a baby - probably the opposite!!!!

You could perhaps tactfully mention the 3 Day Nanny programme in conversation. Just say you've heard its got some really good hints about parents getting their evenings back. It's quite a good programme and has got loads of valuable tips about consistency which is what childcare is all about really. I'm quite lucky as I used to run Mother and Baby classes so my DILs and DD do,sometimes ask for advice but I do always make sure to end the advice with 'but all mums and children are different and what works for some won't work for all!

Only another 10 years until they won't let her into their rooms and will barley speak, happy days, we have all been there. Once upon a time kids did the decent thing and had an afternoon nap as well.....

Stay out of it. You won't change anyone's mind, and will only cause aggro for all. Lose/lose...

It's so hard not say anything but it is best to try not to intervene. That will be resented and cause bad feeling. I know I've been there before. I don't think you should go over the top with helping, the way the children are bought up is her choice and so the consequences of that lie with her. So do what you want to do, but no more. Parenting is very different now, we have to just suck it up!

This is a frustrating situation which many of us as mums go through. Difficult to stay away but let your daughter come to you.Unsolicited advice will make things worse. You may not approve of how your daughter conducts her life but it is her life not yours. What would you do if she lived in another country as do my child and her children.
I am sure that as long as your daughter knows that you are there for her is all that you can do.

Best not to comment it's only perceived as criticism. My grandson slept in his parent's room until he was 12 on a mattress on the floor, they actually accommodated him!! He is 16 shortly and thankfully has now "grown out of it".

When I read a bedtime story to the youngest one, it was generally me who fell asleep!

My DM was born in 1906 and not a bit like that annsixty
However, MIL, born a bit later, most definitely was.

Basic rule no matter what: no one from one generation should ever interfere between others who are of the same or a closer generation. Eg child should never come between parents, grandparent between parent and child. Generational boundaries are good ones to adhere to and breaching them causes no end of trouble. Advice (I prefer the term 'opinion') is fine if asked for but unwelcome if there's ever the expectation that it will be followed. I never cease to be amazed at the ways in which people behave destructively to others in their families 'with the best of intentions'.

This is why so many of today's children are spoilt, ill mannered brats, because their parents became doormats to them.
Young parents need to realise they are in charge, not the children and bedtime is bedtime, in their own beds!

Not that you can say it to her though!

You say they are very clingy and prone to tantrums - this says to me that they are probably in need of the comfort of boundaries, which from your post, your DD is not giving them!

My own experience is now so far distant in time that I don't really have anything more to offer. I know of the resentment when as a GP you try to help, and sometimes wonder whether my DD had it too much her own way though not through her demanding it at the time. I was in an unhappy marriage and on the one hand made the mistake of perhaps expecting to be her friend, yet on the other hand I felt there was a balance in my parenting as I established an acceptable routine where bedtime was at 6 (until she was old enough to know better!)and half an hour spent reading to/with her once she was in bed, and that was it. No night problems - but perhaps I was just lucky in that.

I was a somewhat 'older' parent and perhaps because of this could foresee many day to day problems in advance, and be pro-active in preventing them; that meant she had an easy run and it probably coloured her outlook later on. Also there was no sibling to rub her corners off...

So I'm inclined to think along the lines of you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't...

I think you've just got to hang in there, never close the door to her, and never act in a way that would make her shut the door on you. Painful, but do-able.

We have a really beautiful and intelligent niece born to older parents and the only Grandchild on the Brides side. She has been seriously indulged and it has made her a pain.
She has to have her own way and be the centre of attention and won't do what she is told without being told over and over again.
As a Mother of lots of grown up DCs, it is laughable watching her parents attempt to get her to do anything they say.
I am very fond of her though and she does as she is told with me.
She was crayoning recently and I sat beside her and she said to me ' sit here, and you can pass me the colours as I need them' Mmmm, that was never going to happen!!!

I don't understand if it's a need of the parent or child for this very close style of parenting, seems to be usual nowadays.
Think you can only offer to help and do what you can without upsetting the apple cart
Lips get so sore from bitten I know.

Is it possible for the children to stay with you? Only suggestion I have. Patterns of behaviour are difficult to break if there is no willingness to change.