Out of Control 14 Year Old Granddaughter - HELP!

First of all I really feel for you as we hope when our children become adults our lives will become easier sadly it sounds like your daughter needs you more than ever teenager girls can be selfish but this sounds like professional help is needed maybe the police arriving might have been a positive thing it would certainly have brought her to her senses has your daughter taken her to the GP it maybe worth a visit also not making excuses for her behaviour but pmt hormonal problems could be worsening the situation and parents splitting up and bringing new partners into the home can't be easy for her.

There has been good advice and reasons as to why your Grand-children and in particular your 14 year old grand-daughter behave in this way.
I am sorry but I feel that this is not normal at all......not for anyone . The girl needs to see a therapist. If not recognised and helped she could harm herself or other people. I think she needs referral to a therapist and maybe family councelling for everyone. The situation is now out of hand, and needs professional handling.

Firstly, you and the girl's mother are completely in the right and the girl is in the wrong. In this particular case it is important to rid everyone of nits at the same time or the fleas can get a hold and spread even further so the child was wrong to resist her mother's desire to apply the nit comb. Her daughter was being selfish and antisocial.

That said, with the pernicious influence of liberal parenting and social services intervention you are on to a loser tying to make an enforced stand with an out of control teenager. If you try to quell a hysterical outburst with a slap you might well be putting yourself at risk of prosecution so for your own sake avoid it.

I have some experience in the field of raging teenagers as my son, when afflicted by hormones, was aggressive, touchy and sometimes violent. He smashed things and once, when his father was away from home, chased me around the house and attacked me. He was difficult at school and was nearly expelled on one occasion. He started smoking, ate himself five stone overweight and sometimes drank to excess.

At approaching thirty he is a completely different person. he has never been able to discuss his difficulties or behaviour or to apologise properly. But he has turned himself around and is gentle, kind, loving and generous. In addition he works in a very worthy job at a charity.

I am not completely sure how this turnaround was made but it was a long, slow business of 'two steps forward, one step back'. What I do know is that his father and I never gave up on him. We took one day at a time, tried to praise the good and make our views about the 'bad' clear without nagging. I supposed we refused to appease him and just stood back to let him see the consequences of his own actions. We were kind and loving but didn't compromise on values.

When, once, he spent his entire birthday money on hard alcohol to take to a friend's party and was thus thrown out by the boy's parents we wordlessly picked him up, let him stew and never gave him another penny to compensate for what he had thrown away on liquor. He got the message.

When he was almost thrown out of school in the very academic sixth form he attended we begged the school to keep him which they did.

We told our son he had to finish his A levels but that if he didn't want to go to university that was fine with us, he could get any job he wanted (plumber, electrician, Tesco's worker). Given that he was arrogant as well as selfish he was thrown by this as he thought he was going to be a 'boss' not a worker bee. He sat in his room for a year and then, suddenly, one day, announced he was making a late application to university.

That was the beginning of the turnaround but there were many vexatious setbacks before he became even moderately 'human'.

I know other sons and daughters who were equally awful. One not even took heroin but dealt in it too and stole from friends to pay for his antisocial lifestyle.

Time seems to sort these troubled teenagers out. They need to get out into the real world and make some comparisons with others. Often they come to see how loving and caring and patient their own parents are and then they wonder how those parents could have put up with their antics.

It seems, NudeJude, that you will have to put a little distance between yourself and this grandchild and let her mother and father deal with her until she has calmed down. I agree with the other posters on this thread who have said walk away and take others out of the room. Try to keep calm - and get all of the sharp knives out of the house as this is clearly a danger to the rest of the family.

Sounds awful op ?
My dd was very similar and I had NO idea how to deal with her behaviour. It sadly resulted in her going to a secure unit as I couldn't keep her safe & she wasn't keeping herself safe.
The family as a unit, including father, need to seek therapy. Everyone needs to get involved. All of the kids will be affected in different ways & if the parents are unable to sing from the same hymn sheet it won't get any better.
My experience is angry teens turn on themselves, self harm & risky behaviour.
I completely understand your actions when you slapped dgd, it doesn't sound as though it worked & it sounds like you won't do that again. It will give dgd something to use against you & the other adults involved.
My dd attacked me because I locked us in the house to prevent her running away again. I was a few weeks out of back surgery. Terrible situation & I completely feel for you all.
A trip to gp or self (or school) referral to CAHMS may be the way forward.

Good luck, be strong ?

Start by talking to social services and they will be able to guide you to whatever help is available.

My daughter was a difficult teenager. She now says that she felt angry all the time and just couldn't let it out. Since diagnosed polycystic. When dealing with difficult kids herself in a work situation she has bought them a punch ball so they can safely let go

I was a youth worker too and LESS IS MORE, when dealing with stroppy kids. Your situation has taken away the security those kids are entitled to and they are feeling it.

Don't row over the small stuff......you re wasting your time. Back off. If things start to escalate go out for a while and let it blow itself out many storms do.

Teenage girls don't want nits, she would have dealt with it. Get one of the little combs so she can nit pick at he leisure.

Get a game plan sorted with dad, don't play pass the parcel when they are acting out.make sure wherever they are the secure rules are in place.

Try to ignore the irritating stuff and only raise big issues with her, remember a lot of really excellent youth workers, artists, musicians etc have trouble growing up!!!

Divorce pole axes families and we assume now that it is common that it is all OK and that things can be shared out and the kids don't feel like they were hit by a Tsunami.......that, in my experience is exactly how people feel and it takes them years to recover.

No physical violence will ever help. Social services and counsellors often make things worse, much worse sometimes. They can develop the 'client' mentality from which people find it hard to escape. This is why the loss of youth work was such a terrible thing, people thought we were playing table tennis all the time or just running a bit of a disco, how wrong they were.

The ancient Greeks knew about teenagers, this is nothing new at all, it is a bumpy ride and the least damage done now (by the adults) the better.

If they are not your kids, be the kindly gran and let the parents do the parenting.......doesn't matter what size your daughter is or how much she sits and shakes after an episode. It is her problem.

Your granddaughter is not unique NudeJude and the fact that you know you handled it wrongly is half the equation but don't bristle from the answers you are getting, there is some really good advice on here and everyone seems to agree that stepping back, removing the audience, talking calmly and even letting go of the original request, are all the best way forward Easier said than done I know, but really, really necessary

To be honest your daughter SHOULD NOT have brought you into it at all... I have an extra volatile very manly built grandchild (amongst others that have their moments) and my daughter always removes him from the audience to talk to him if he refuses to go and that has happened many times then she asks us to leave them for five minutes he has in 'saner' moments cried and says he doesn't know why he s like he is Some teens have a very rough time Their bodies and hormones are telling them to take control of all situations, they are ready for war but their emotions are very childlike and still at the stamping feet stage and they all mature differently and at different times

Your granddaughter is desperately trying to gain control in a very uncontrollable life don't underestimate the middle child syndrome, the break up of mum and dad,
(you see them going from one to another as part of their temper tantrums but they are probably very confused about their loyalty) and the quickly on the scene new boyfriend and his children (I do hope he/ they havent moved in ) and he definitely shouldn't be putting his oar in that will just cause much more resentment ( I can imagine 'you're not my dad you can't tell me what to do')

You are not going to like this but it's your daughter who is the one that needs the help and retraining I notice you imply her husband took a calmer view with the children's behaviour but she didn't accept that as the right way forward, but her way isn't working and never has with any of the three kids by the sound of it A good course in conflict/resolution and parenting skills for teens would help her

Please stop seeing the girls as 'the problem' it's what's going on around them that's causing the problems and what they are reacting to

Good luck it's a toughie

My advice would be not to engage. A request is made and an angry reply is given. Ignore it to the point of moving out of sight (unless serious physical danger imminent.) She is getting loads of attention for poor behaviour and has power over everyone at a time when she probably feels nobody cares enough about her and she feels her life is out of control. In this case I would leave the nit comb/shampoo in her bedroom and I suspect she would do it at some point. When she does comply a hug/ smile or other acknowledgement is always important. All adults need to agree this course of action if possible and stick to it so she cannot play one off against another.
it is hard to bite your tongue when abuse is being hurled about but you have to think in the longer term! If possible, if she is getting distressed just putting a gentle hand on her back, if she will allow, is reassuring/calming and may prevent stage 2 of a flare up. Adults need to take back control..in the best way not physically or by threatening. It will be a rough ride bit not necessarily impossible. if it sounds like I know a bit about situations like this it is because I have had similar to deal with! Good luck...

Several points occur to me. The parents have only been seperated for a year, teenagers react very badly to family splits - they are totally self centred and won't make allowances for their parents problems, and apparently there is a new partner.

All in all a fairly volatile situation.

As there have always been problems with this girl is autism a possibility? Girls can appear much more "normal" than boys but the out of control screaming and violence does ring alarm bells?

Reading about this situation I had a mental picture of eveybody being in the same room. Would it help if, when she has a tantrum - a strange word for a 14 year old - you others could leave the room quietly. I remember a daughter of mine refusing to wash her hair or have a bath and a friend who worked in child guidance, said she was wanting to get control of her own life and I was to back off!

I did and put up with the smell keeping a smile on my face and then it was all over in a week or two.

DD2 told me she had been told to hug a child in a tantrum and that it cost her a lot of self control to do this but it worked. Still 14 years old is differnt but it seems to me that may be what she needs.

If that was directed at me NudeJude, I have dealt with violent, aggressive teenagers and I have never, ever had to use physical violence with any of them. I was a youth worker in my younger days in a deprived area and they were very aggressive, often using snooker balls to hurl about. Not pleasant at all.
My own daughter had "issues" and it was very frustrating, like living on a knife edge. From my own experience, it was very obvious when I shouted back (I'm not a saint) things just escalated more.
Boundaries are all very well while you can enforce them, but short of physically holding them down, how are you supposed to make them stop and listen? May I respectfully suggest that in the heat of the moment, you won't get them to stop and listen?
You could always try ringing Childline and they might point you in the right direction for where you can get help with strategies if you don't find Gransnet helpful.

Look this is emotional turmoil, kids getting shunted off to dads wanting to come back new boyfriend put his twopenneth in and everyone screaming, shouting, pushing and hitting in front of an audience of next door neighbours child and partners two sons
young teens are hugely difficult to handle they have raging hormones, probably feel the need to fight for attention ( even the wrong sort) and really don't know their role in the world add to that a new partner and his children and you have a complete boiling pot. Your daughter has shown her children that she cannot handle them, she's crying, screaming begging for help from whoever she can and she is probably the ones needing the most help this in turn will make the children whatever age feel very unsafe

It sounds as if it's gone much too far I think your daughter needs some parenting intervention some help in how to handle these huge confrontations she needs to be stronger and totally calm a child won't argue with itself it needs the other person to fight with also as others have said let things go if there not over important otherwise they just become a huge battle of wills which your daughter won't win

I m amazed the girl didn't run away that may be the next move

Difficult all round and you have my empathy but it needs to be handled very differently

So sorry, Jude that you are in this awful situation. What is your granddaughter like at school? Does she act out there and is the school concerned by her behaviour? If so, then help and advice should be available from the Educational Psychologist.

I think Luckygirl has given some excellent advice. I think also sticking to the old adage 'never get into a fight unless you are sure you will win" is advisable. Teenage girls will always go further than anyone around them. It is hard because they know exactly which buttons to push. Asking yourself "What is the worst that can happen if I let this go?" is helpful.
Look at the situation you have described with this in mind. She might have had nits, she might have needed treatment for them. She would have been devastated but she would have learned to cooperate next time.
As far as her moods go have you looked at a hormonal factor? I was unbearable as a teenager and it wasn't until I was much older that I realised my mood swings were at certain times in my monthly cycle. If there is a pattern it might be worth speaking to your GP.
Everything matters so much to teenagers and they are under such a lot of social pressure. The events in her young life have affected her badly. She obviously responded well to your make-up request and a one to one session. Please try to build up more of these moments and don't get drawn in to her emotional dramas.

I do not think that anyone is judging Zandra - the OP asked for advice and I think there has been a fair bit of it on here where people have done their best to suggest both positive strategies and to comment on those things that are likely to make things worse. Posters have recognised (as the OP has said) that this is not just a teenage thing, but reflects a poor parenting style that goes back a long way, combined with a broken marriage. A very difficult mix.

There are no easy answers, and many of us have personal experience of teenage girls and know that it not easy. Judging the OP and her DD for how they handled the situation does not come into it - the OP recognises that things got out of hand and is not happy with how things worked out.

I hope that some of the basic strategies that have been suggested will help to move things forward - but nothing will happen overnight! Having said that I have seen remarkably speedy changes arising from sticking to basic rules, about which the adults agree.

You have my sympathy too, NudeJude. I know how these situations can escalate. Teenagers can be completely unmanageable.
All I can think of is to go to Social Services for advice, but that would have to come from your daughter.(? maybe not)
And there's always the chance they might take the girl into care? I could be wrong about that, things could have changed since I was working.
Bon courage.

You really need to be in that situation to understand. All boundaries are broken, nothing you do will work, disrespect is rife the list goes on. Don't judge until you have been there because it is very very hard and difficult. Dealing with a young person who will not listen and that is the key. They act before they think and it can put you in very dangerous situation.

Can I ask - how long has your daughter known her new partner? How old are his sons and do they also live with them?

I would agree - pick your fights, and this one that escalated out of control over the nits was just not worth it. Everyone was upset and you got to the point where you slapped your DGD.

I am not sure, but I have heard smothering the hair in conditioner with some tea tree oil then washing the next morning, combing with a nit comb, is effective and better than using chemicals.

A 14 year old - at a sensitive age, with hormones raging, mum and dad have split up, mum has a new partner - well, I can't help feeling sorry for her, she sounds as if she is a very unhappy girl. She is probably raging inside, can't express her feelings - perhaps doesn't even know what it is that upsets her - and it all comes out in these temper tantrums.
Shutting her outside and slapping her is not the answer.

There is some very good advice on here and some very constructive comments which may be extremely helpful and the way to move forward.

I'm sorry your family is going through this turmoil, Nudejude. I don't think anything can be resolved when emotions are sky high. It's better to step back and consider how the situation can be defused. In this case, it's unlikely another day or two would make much difference to the nit situation (by the way, use lots of conditioner when you comb, it means the eggs can't stick so easily to the hair and has the side effect of leaving the hair smooth and glossy!) so backing off would have been the best thing to do.

As others have said, everyone getting out of the way would be best, because they either thrive on an audience or they are embarrassed and don't know how to get out of a situation of their own making.

I think you need to find a way to let her back down without humiliating her but without the parents being a pushover, either.

You could try reading a book called How To Talk so Teens Will Listen. There are some other books on my link, too. Try your library if you don't want to buy them.
www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Teens-Will-Listen/dp/1853408573

my own daughter went through a phase like this ,the cause was she was being badly bullied at school and deciided not to tell us,when we tried to stop her going to a party (shhe was 13) she called the social work department ! The lady she spoke to took it in like soup all the wrongs we had supposedly committed...then asked to speak to us...she told us to" let the girl make her own decisions as we'd have to let her go sometime" to say I was raging is an understatement .We quickly learned that WE hhad to do things our way.We NNEVER said no to anything straight away ,always said we'd get back to her with an answer and usually she didn't want to do the thing she'd been desperate to do when we hhad made the decision.Teenage girls are hard work.My daughter is 38 now and a brilliant mum to her three kids and she often tells me she was a nightmare and cant believe we put up with it .YOUR grandaughter may well have untold issues with her parents seperation and the new man in their lives not to mention HIS offspring.I know its old fashioned of me but I really believe parents should be putting their kids before new relationships at what is already a difficult part of their lives .Your daughter could have found another man whe her girls are old enough to have their own lives!Would it have killed her to wait afew years and make them her priority?

PS I have every sympathy for you OP. It must be very distressing for you, especially on what ought t have been a happy, family visit.

I would never try to reason with anyone who is this out of control, be it a 2-year old, a teenager or anyone. Their brains are in such a mode that reasoning isn't an option.

This should never have escalated to such a stage. Reading about the family situation with new partner and 'step brothers' (?) I'm not surprised this girl is upset and confused.

It is impossible to offer advice as it's your daughter who needs to learn some basic parenting skills and if she hasn't developed these before now, there is no quick answer.

This family need professional help.

Nobody has lectured you OP.

Just disagreed that it was handled in the best way possible.

If your daughter cannot handle her own children then there is something seriously wrong, surely you agree? I think * ChristineFrances* idea of counselling is a way forward but Mum and Dad really need to get on the same page no matter their personal situation.