I didn't know about honey!!

Usually agree with Bags about most things, but can't agree that sugars are all the same; they're not. Honey is predominantly fructose, and here's part of the Wikipedia entry on FRUCTOSE. This explains how honey causes loose bowels, and read down for other adverse effects. I would avoid giving it to a little one and I don't have it myself.
Digestion
Fructose absorption occurs in the small intestine via the GLUT-5(fructose only) transporter, and the GLUT2 transporter, for which it competes with glucose and galactose. Over-consumption of fructose, inhibition of GLUT2 by other phytochemicals, such as flavonoids, or other issues, may result in delivery of unabsorbed fructose into the large intestine, which will cause more water to be drawn into the large intestine through the process of osmosis causing diarrhea. In addition, the excessive fructose becomes a source of nutrients for the gut flora resulting in a higher production of short chain fatty acids, hydrogen, carbon dioxide and other gases due to fermentation. This increase of gas causes gastrointestinal side effects that mimic irritable bowel syndrome.
Weight gain
In a meta-analysis of clinical trials with controlled feeding — where test subjects were fed a fixed amount of energy rather than being allowed to choose the amount they ate — fructose was not an independent factor for weight gain; however, fructose consumption was associated with weight gain when the fructose provided excess calories.
Cardiometabolic diseases
Excess fructose consumption has been hypothesized to be a cause of insulin resistance, obesity, elevated LDL cholesterol and triglycerides, leading to metabolic syndrome. In preliminary research, fructose consumption was correlated with obesity. Fructose encourages visceral adipose tissue deposition in humans.

I will immediately abandon my terrapin the next time I see a baby.

Seriously, though, getttingonabit, you have put this warning in a context that makes sense and gives it a basis for taking care, but we get so many of these food scares every day, you have no alternative but to shrug and ignore them.

Today's scares are that burnt toast can give you cancer and a fatty burger can shorten your life. If you read the small print of both sets of research the risk is actually so low, compared with the risks that people run every day without caring; travelling in cars, walking beside busy roads, smoking, drinking, eating too much that the thought that my life might be shortened by a couple of days if I occasionally have a burger and chips or that my risk of getting cancer is increased by a fraction of a % of a % risk that is already fairly small, will not stop me eating a rather over-toasted piece of toast.

Monica I've looked for some research but there's not much, really. Infant botulism seems to be quite rare, and caused by a number of things such as soil, honey and other raw substances, and terrapins .

MOnica has a point. Unless we know what the probability is, it's difficult to make an informed judgement. However the line seems to be:" don't feed a baby under one honey or corn syrup because they are raw substances and could carry botulinium (?) toxin which young babies' systems can't deal with".

That seems clear enough.

You could suggest (in a nice way) that you're amazed at how well her generation have survived given all the harm that was metered out to them in THEIR babyhood!

Nothing in life is risk free. Nowadays so many want a guarantee that everything they or their children do, eat, use should come with a 100% guarantee that absolutely no harm will ever come to them from doing, eating, using whatever the item is.

I just like to know the probabilities so that I do not flee from a one in a million chance to be caught inadvertently in to doing/consuming something that is more likely to be harmful.

I wouldn't worry too much about not knowing what the GC can eat drink and so on. I just ask! Our DDs and DILs don't expect us to know all the new rules and advice on such matters.

The only thing I knew for sure was that I would only give GS plain tap water .... No fruit juice or diluted drinks 'cos I want to protect his teeth. He's now 4 and hopefully he won't be one of those children with 'bad' baby teeth.

Another interesting teeth fact I read a couple of years ago. After a piece of chocolate do not immediately clean the teeth. Apparently the teeth are most vulnerable after eating sugary stuff and brushing destroys the enamel. Instead the advice is to give a drink of water to wash the sugars off.

I would have found a list of Dos and Donts really helpful .....

All milk contains lactose, that's what lactose is milk sugar.

Off to collect GS1 from school

Chemically they differ. They all come under the 'sugar' heading, but they are not identical and their ability to be digested and used by the body is different too. A bit like dalmatians are dogs but not all dogs are dalmatians, sort of thing.

Cow's milk contains lactose too. Lactose, sucrose, glucose, whatevercose... it's all sugar.

"Honey, I poisoned the kids!"

Breast milk contains lactose, natural milk sugar.

"I would never do anything to endanger a child's life but......."

Milk info

I would never do anything to endanger a child's life but if we were to exclude everything from a babies life that has the remotest possibility of doing it harm, the child would probably die of malnutrition.

When I hear these scares, I just want to know the probabilities, because if you do not know the probability you cannot make an informed judgement. My response to a one in a million chance would be very different to a one in 10 chance.

Re babies and sugar, isn't breast milk sweet? And very carbohydrate high? I believe it is, at least when compared to cow's milk.

I couldn't believe it when I read this thread, as only the other day I thought I would use some honey when cooking for my baby GD. Something stopped me and I decided to check. I was horrified when I read the article.
I have brought up three children, one who suffers from anaphylaxis, so I am over careful, as my son nearly died from it. However, I am much more anxious feeding my GD, than I ever was with my own children. As for grapes...absolutely not!

I'm in the Naughty Nanna corner too when my beloved GS was about 9 months old I gave him a peice of walnut bread with homey on it which he loved. DD2 went berserk. I have always asked her since what they can have. He is 12 now and all in one piece and freely eats from Nandos, KFC, Macdonalds and every other fast food botulism banquet he can get his hands on- don't feel bad about getting things a bit wrong.

Probably about the same number of babies as the known number of children who died from taking aspirin, which is now banned for under 16s

Botulism can be deadly and under ones have no resistance to it.

There was an episode of e.r with a case of a baby with botulism because of honey.never heard of it until then.

M0nica The problem is once you have heard about such a risk you have to make a decision about it.
How many would be prepared to take even the potential risk of botulism (a very serious disease) for their child.
As I said down thread, my kids were fine sleeping on their tummies.

Oh my word - so much has changed since my two were babies over 40 years ago. I was told by DD not to allow granddaughter to eat anything with raw egg. Of course, I let her lick the spoon with sponge mix on it and what happened ? - a rash appeared around her mouth so I was good and proper in hot water which goes to show you can't get away with anything !! I would say though, that I think the danger of grapes cannot be emphasised too strongly. They should never be fed whole to children but cut lengthways. Too many reports of deaths by choking on whole grapes. Makes me shudder.

Does anyone know how many babies have got this illness from honey and what the probabilities of this are. One in a million? How does that compare with the risk to small babies from having a parent that drinks one unit of alcohol, or possibly more a day.

I used to feed dd on "pap" - white bread poached in milk and butter and sugar added. She'd have custard for afters.

She's fine!

It is not because honey causes allergies, it is because of the risk of botulism which can be fatal in babies (see upthread).
www.bbc.co.uk/news/10225536

As for water, I was told the same as Pagzy by one HV and another said that no more than an ounce of cool boiled water on a hot day is fine.
Too much water fills up the baby and they won't take the full amount of breast milk therefore don't get to the richer milk.