Secondary School places allocated today [sad]

Gilly from the last couple of posts am I right in thinking that two junior aged children travel to school on service buses on their own? Will they both be travelling long journeys alone when your older DGD changes school?

It is very distressing for you all but unfortunately that won't count in an appeal! Challenging the selection criteria itself would be a lengthy political process and won't help your DGD either, in the short term. It s important that you stick to what is challengeable in your appeal and don't confuse the issue with personal opinions or comments. The system may seem like madness or injustice but the appeals panel will make their judgements according to the criteria that are in place and any appeal mostly based on saying the criteria are wrong or unfair will fail.
The issue seems to be the impractical nature of the journey? That's where your emphasis and evidence should concentrate.
Other posters have referred you to the site for advice on school journeys. Particularly pertinent is the advice that a journey should not exceed 70 minutes in length and that children should arrive at school fit for education. Also the impossibility of transporting other children in the family to a school in a different direction.
I know you're all angry and distressed but please keep a cool head on this. You have to play by the rules of the system to beat the system!

There is no dedicated school bus Penstemmon as there are no other children traveling to this school,from where they live. They use 2 service buses. The first one is a rural (once an hour) service and takes in a city centre and several small villages before they get on. It is often late. Then they have to wait for a connection (they normally miss the best one) and have a fairly decent walk to school,after they get off the second bus. I asked the attendance officer for her advice, I asked what we could do, I tried to explain what it was like for the children but I could almost hear her singing "la, la, la, la " with her fingers in her ears as she said it was not up to her to offer solutions it was up to her to enforce children arriving at school on time.

We were not offered any alternative/closer school at appeal Jayanna9040 just merely told we could not get into one of the 4 primaries close by. (Tbh one of them is not close at all and would still necessitate a bus journey and a long walk). Infact I questioned the LEA after the lost appeals and was told that there were no places at any schools closer to home and that the children should stay where they are. No help. No advice. No understanding.

I have no evidence to suggest the admission criteria has not been applied but I would love to question the criteria itself which looks like a back door selection process to me. As it stands a child without a sibling link or who does not get into one of the 4 feeders at 4 yrs old has NO CHANCE whatsoever of getting into the secondary school 7 years later. All of the children from one of the "feeders" are bused across despite the fact that they have a perfectly adequate secondary school opposite (not a well performing school) but close to the upmarket area where the feeder is situated. Why bother inviting children to come and look around the school? Why not just be truthful and invite siblings and feeder children? Is the real reason my DGD has not got a place because her primary is undesirable to the selectors? Is it fair that children have got places who live miles and miles away and yet my DGD can see the school from her window? DGD very upset and frightened too and no one can offer her any words of comfort.

gillybob what a terrible situation! These letters are often generated automatically which makes them sound rather insensitive but it is true lateness is not good for you DGC or anyone else. However the response from the LA officer is an obvious case of poor communication, jobsworth and unsuitability for a particular job and insensitive to boot!

The actual EW /Attendance officer may be more understanding than the admin people.

Ask for an appointment to meet him/her because the family is very concerned
a) about the impact of lateness on children's education and
b) the impact on children's health and well being if they have to leave for school even earlier for their long journey to get to school on time.
In addition:
Does the dedicated 'school bus' have a set departure time? It might be possible to find out the days that the regular bus has arrived after school bus departure time.. might be an idea if bus companies record times etc. You may want to ask the EWO to find someone at the bus company who could provide this evidence. The Education Welfare Officers will know that buses are dependent on traffic. If the local bus does not run frequently (every 10 mins) at 'rush hour' it is thoughtless to ask young childrne to leave home say half an hour earlier just to accommodate traffic. I would think it is within then EWO remit to actually be at the school bus stop on several mornings to monitor arrival/departure of buses. Good luck

I specialised in various aspects of educational law before I retired. Can I ask

Is your appeal based on the impracticality of the journey?Or are you also citing other reasons for appeal?

Are any of the closer schools academies or church schools?

Do you have any proof or reason to suspect that the admissions criteria for the closer schools have not been applied?

Were you offered any LEA primary school when you went to appeal last year? If so was it your choice to keep the children at their original school?

Obviously you are all very upset but it is important to steer away from emotive comments when making an appeal.

I'd have been livid at that letter gilly - like rubbing salt into the wound.

However, it's an ill wind, etc .... this could assist your appeal supporting your claim that the local senior school is more suitable for DGD.

sorry,
www.gov.uk/free-school-transport

I would think that a route with no pavements, along a rural road would not be considered safe.

[[https://www.gov.uk/free-school-transport]
This states that:
If there’s no safe walking route, they must be given free transport, however far from school they live. Contact your local council if you think that the walk to school isn’t safe.

So the distance rules do not apply if the route is not safe.

yes, log everything, times, dates, who you spoke to, conversations

And point out that they would not be late for school if they could walk to the schools near their home!
on your behalf.

I am writing to the attendance officer today Ankers to reiterate our telephone conversation as I want it to be on record. Thank you

I did start off using the nicey nicey approach with the attendance officer but she really got to me saying things like "I do not take circumstances into consideration" "they should leave the house sooner" "get a taxi" how can you reason with someone like that? I explained that the first bus the children use is a very rural bus and it has travelled quite a fair distance before they get on it meaning that it is often late which means they miss the connection for the second bus which means they are late for school. What the hell else can anyone do? I truly despair.

Yes indeed Jalima the whole system is CRAZY !

DS and DIL wanted to move house recently, a nice house at a reasonable price and larger than the one they live in - however, they decided not to because it is not in the catchment area of the comprehensive the DGC would go to.

This being despite the fact that it is much, much nearer to the school than their present house.
There is no guarantee that they would get into that school from where they are either, as they change catchment areas if and when they feel like it.
The constantly changing catchment areas resulted in me having DC at three different schools many years ago.
The whole system is crazy.

Oh, FGS!!


It could be a good idea to get the Attendance Officer on your side - could you phone her again and tell her how upset you are about the threats of court, how distressing all this is, because it is not the children's fault and not the parents' fault that they are late - it is because they have to go to a school miles away catching two buses.

She could be an ally in your fight to get your DGD in the school near her home.
Are the other DGC on the waiting list for the primary school near their home?

That seems grossly unfair!

I used to have to get 2 buses to get to school. But so did 5 others.
The school were more than aware of our predicament, and sympathised, not hand out stroppy letters!

Nowadays, if that sort of thing happened, I ask people to put things in writing if they have a complaint! That way, their unreasonableness is plain for all to see[especially if I were to hand around said letter!].

Update. Sorry for boring everyone to tears.

Parents received a letter at the weekend from the Attendance Monitoring Officer stating that the children had been late for school on several occasions and that "continued lateness may result in parents receiving a fine or facing legal action in a magistrates court"

To say I am hopping mad is the understatement of the year and I have telephoned the attendance officer and given her a piece of my mind! I asked her if she could suggest any way to guarantee the children got to school on time every day when most days they have 2 bus journeys! Grrrrrrr I want to scream !

It is a total myth that there is a 'choice' for parents. Parents may state preferences (usually just 3) It does not help when all schools have slightly different criteria and whilst most schools' admissions are administered by the LA they have to abide by each schools admission criteria. It must be a nightmare to do.
I really think that the sibling link ought not to be a criterion for high schools and it should be on distance alone (unless there is a specific SEND unit). I know of too many parents who have rented for 6 months/year to get a kid into a school then moved back to their original address miles away. Subsequent siblings get in and more local kids are travelling silly distance. No laws, other than moral ones, are broken

I'd certainly agree with that Lilyflower and recommended this last week. I'm hoping this was done pronto before too many others did the same and the waiting list grew.

I've just heard that my niece's daughter has been offered her 5th choice, which is also out of borough. Both her and my DGD had the same 1st choice but my DGD got her 2nd choice. The other girl's offer is my DGD's nearest school. The system seems bad.

As a former teacher whose own son went through a tortuous and labyrinthine appeals process, only securing a place at a decent school a week into his first term and after he had started at the school we did not want, I can offer some advice.

The above poster who advised to change primary places for your second child so they can automatically attend the feeder secondary school attached to it is on to something. However, that won't work for the one you are writing about now.

What you can do, though, is get the older child's name on the waiting list for the school you want and keep it there. You would be amazed at how quickly these lists move. You can be at number one hundred and then be offered a place quite soon, mid term.

The reason is that once children are settled the parents do not want to move them. They listen to the children's pleas to stay put with their new friends.

Also, some people move away and others go down the private school route.

You need to be resolved and not to worry about a mid term move. At a good school this can be overcome by the end of the school year and anyway there are years to go before the GCSEs start.

Good luck and keep at it! Don't let the LEA think you are going to give up. When my son was given the 'wrong school' I phoned the schools' allocation officer and was charming and polite but kept asking when a place would be free at my desired school for my son. At the first term's week's end she said, 'Well, if you got in now with an application he might be in.' My husband took the day off work and the special letter for late application was on the doorstep when they opened up shop!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2868475-Catchment-priority-admissions-areas-and-feeder-schools-legality-and-justification?pg=2

www.beechampeacock.co.uk/education-law/

Is this anywhere near you? You could always ring and get a rough quote for starters.

www.schoolappeals.com/first.html

Have you looked at this?

You join just like joining GN - a few seconds and any nickname you want of course -WorriedSickGran springs to mind here. You could then start a new thread on the Secondary Education board or put Secondary Education into search and the relevant threads will come up.

Yes Jalima she has fallen through the cracks of a system that really doesn't give a stuff.