Secondary School places allocated today [sad]

The trouble is Penstemmon, as I'm sure you're aware, that admission processes and procedures are not government controlled but set by each individual LA. From what Gillybob has posted their particular LA's selection process has been followed correctly. Without scanning through 11 pages of posts I seem to remember that siblings at the school is the primary criterion, and none of the other criteria work to her advantage either.

This isn't to say that their selection process is fair and well thought-out. It has clearly fallen down in this instance.

Just in case you think I am a jobsworth , I am not but just trying to be realistic and I know what will be considerd and what will not.

I think it is wrong that any child travels more than 30 minutes to get to school. Children should be able to go to local schools. It is time government reversed the Greenwich judgement and reinstated clear catchment areas and stopped kidding parents thay have a 'choice'! They even try to sell grammar schools as choice!
If they invested money into making all schools good schools instead of investing in diversifying the system, part of which has caused Gillybob's problem, school life would be clearer for parents.

Can I say that I do not think the travel will pull that much weight. Not that I don't think it should but as a precedent there are children that travel miles and miles to get to grammar schools at their parents behest.

You have to show that a) the admission process was not properly followed &/or b) that the admission criteria is not reasonable.

I suggest that the appeal focus on the premise that the admission criteria are not reasonable because they place an unfair disadvantage on children moving home during primary school as they are unable to access local feeder schools. So a child could live in the local community for two years and still not be able to attend a local school that prides itself on serving the local community.

Gilly would also have to show that if an exception was made for her DGD it would not open the floodgates numbers of other children in a similar position which the school could not accommodate.
She can back up the case with the information about the additional stress the travel has on her DGDs ability to successfully access the education on offer at the school she has been offered. e.g. frequent lateness due to cancelled bus, traffic jams etc.

Anya's good points were ^Finally, get all your ducks in a line. As I see it you have two strong grounds for appeal. The distance and the chance of buses are your strongest bargaining chip, especially if she will be travelling in the dark. I suggest you make the journey yourself and take photographs of parts that might be considered in a risk assessment e.g. Any roads to cross and if there is a pedestrian crossing and what the traffic flow is like.

You also say your GD is small for her age. Get her assessed height and weight wise on percentiles. And if you can get her present headteacher to back you up on her timidity all to the good.

PS has she has an assessment re being 'secondary ready'? My GS has just had his

Also, somewhere you said that she has to wait at a lonely bus stop for about 20 minutes?
That cannot be safe. Getting correct details about that may help.

We are actually appealing 2 schools Rigby46 one is on her doorstep and the other is one bus ride away. She has no chance whatsoever (don't know why we are bothering tbh) with the one that is a bus ride away as she will not qualify in any criteria. No sibling link, no feeder, not cared for child and not on distance. The next nearest is even further away again and the one most of her existing primary is fed into. Just as Impossible for her to get there as the one offered, ie 2 buses and no direct connection.

It's this "as the crow flies" that gets me there must be someone who can see the nonsense of it when you cannot physically travel "as the crow flies" without a helicopter or a set of wings.

Maybe they changed rules from one school year to the next?

Sorry gillybob - I'd misremembered being small and being young. I know it's hard to stay calm and measured and it must be hard having to wait until you can get on with actually lodging the appeal. Have you been able to find out how many appeals where allowed last year? I was able to find that out when we were appealing. The numbers were very very low but what that meant was that I was able to start 'managing expectations' re the chance of winning. The figures to vary between leas. Is there more than one school she would be happy to go to? And can you appeal for more than one school?

Some useful stuff here I think.
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/secondary/2014350-Secondary-school-admissions-appeals?pg=1

They should still have an agreed admissions policy Gillybob and it should be available.
I still think Mumsnet is your best bet for the most informed advice and I think it would be helpful for you or your DD to start a thread (apologies if you have and I haven't spotted it.)

I am totally confused as to how our LEA operates. They won't talk to the attendance people and the attendance people won't talk to them. That would be too easy. Tbh I am not sure even they know how they operate and seem to make a lot of the rules up as they go along. Take for example their rule of not being able to appeal against the same school twice in one term or is it year??? (they change their mind). I have tried to explain that the time between the original application in March 2016 , being rejected, the appeal forms going in, being stamped as received (weeks later) and the appeal being heard (October 2016)was so long (unreasonably so) that the children had all moved up a school year.

Frustrating is not the word. I feel like I want to explode.

What I would really like to say is unprintable Mamie Not sure about the movement on waiting lists for this school but I do know there will be several children above her.

I think you make a good point Ankers in that we have nothing to lose by giving it our all. Yes it is a very long shot indeed.

Sadly DGD is adamant she will not go to the offered school no matter what. She is terrified of taking the bus journey's alone, waiting at bus stops alone for long periods and crossing several roads. She is also convinced that because it has "a bit of a reputation" she will be bullied (again) for being small.

Anya. I am not saying you are wrong. But do wonder if LEAS dont operate all in the same way?

I am a "throw everything at a problem" sort of person. Nothing to lose in this case I dont think, so long as DGD understands that it is a bit of a long shot.

I'm sorry to say this but it is utter rubbish to suggest any special pleading outside of the system - it won't and shouldn't get anyone anywhere.

How do you know it wont? How can you know this?

That sounds right Gillybob. My GD's friend knows where she is but that is the grammar system which may be different.
I think you have a strong case and if you can put in a clear, factual, evidence-based appeal (whilst firmly biting your tongue about what you would really like to say) then I would hope for success.
There is normally quite a lot of movement in waiting lists.

Not yet Mamie the official waiting list will not be available until after Friday 17th which is deadline date for accepting offered places. Realistically we will not know DGD's place on the list until Monday 20th. I suspect she will not be high on the list as I know a few children from feeders did not get into the school and feeder children (no matter if they live miles away) are given higher priority.

The appeal forms do not come out until 23rd March so whilst i am collecting information/evidence etc. we cannot lodge appeal without the official forms.

Is your appeal in Gillybob? Do you know where she is on the waiting list?

My DGD is not young for her age at all Rigby46. She is just very small. Think a tiny little Russian gymnast and you have it about right. It is very difficult to stay "calm and measured" when the well being of a small child is at stake.

I am not in any way confident of winning an appeal.

I agree with Anya and Mamie. Although posters will have sympathy for gillybob and her dgd and many of us have provided information and advice, there are 100s of dgc in this position at the moment and the appeals system is there to make sure that the appeals are dealt with as fairly as possible across the board. I'm sorry to say this but it is utter rubbish to suggest any special pleading outside of the system - it won't and shouldn't get anyone anywhere. I also think that the advice to pathologise her dgd by bringing in the GP is seriously wrong. Measuring distance by how far the crow flies is used universally and criticisms of it again will get nowhere on an individual case. As I said upthread I went through this with my great nephew. My sister expressed many of the feelings gillybob has and my support was to keep everything calm and measured. My dgn was also very young for his age and had been dreadfully dreadfully bullied and the school offered( which was very close) could not have been less suitable. We lost both appeals but felt we'd done the best we could - I'm not sure that any appeals were won that year.

Juggernaut I nearly always go straight to the top, emailing the CEO and would definitely recommend it 99% of the time.

But not in this case.

Education and the NHS are public services (allegedly!!) and they operate in a different way. But then I only worked for my LEA firv7 years so what would I know?

Many years ago I worked in County Hall for ILEA. Believe me if a letter arrived from an MP voicing a constituent's concerns we dropped everything and it became number one priority.
Definitely worth contacting your own MP and goinig to the top.

gillybob Childrens services should know if you have such a thing. Councils now seem to rename everything on a daily basis.
You can find info here. They were working with some councils- mine is one of them but want to expand to others
www.unicef.org.uk/child-rights-partners/local-authority-partners/
It's a developing area and something that is reckoned to improve children's lives, particularly looked after children, but it might help your case.
Your GD's very real fears and worries should be taken into account, as should her size and vulnerability.

Anya/Ana
I'm not for one moment suggesting that Gillybob sends a 'pleading' letter to Justine Greening, more that she puts all the facts forward, cleanly and concisely........people seem to forget sometimes, politicians work for us, are paid by us, and are there to listen to us!
I have, on many occasions, felt the need to 'go right to the top', most recently due to noise pollution from an offshore wind farm. I fought without result for almost three years before finally getting the company to modify the blades, and that was only after contacting Liz Truss who was, at the time, Secretary of State for Environment et al!
The odds are that Justine Greening won't personally get involved with Gillybob's case, but if we don't make a damn nuisance of ourselves, and keep doing it, how will 'the powers that be' know who we are! It's worth a try, it most definitely wouldn't do any harm to contact her!

Existing not exiting ?

Gillybob I can only echo that the most important thing is to have your GD's name on the waiting list and to have put in a measured, evidence-based and well-argued appeal using the exiting system. One of my GD's friend’s parents put in an appeal the day the allocations came out and she already knows that she is fourth on the waiting list for her preferred school.
As others have said, the support on Mumsnet is excellent.

Yes, just imagine how many pleading letters she gets already...