Fighting grandsons - what to do?

Children have to be engaged (in the simplest way) if you are to children control undesirable behaviour. I listen to DH ranting at our GSs sometimes when they start acting loudly or physically. They pay little or no attention.

Children rarely do if you just tell them.

Someone upthread had the right idea. You have to ask them a question that will require an answer thus engaging their attention and making them think. Nearly all teachers know this.

Sympathies GrannyA11i In my case the fighting is between two DGD's. DGS usually disappears when they start but has been known to 'join in' to wind them both up! DGD1 has always had a short fuse (very much like her mum). DGD2 is a more stable personality but is learning behaviours from her big sister and has now begun to snatch and hit her back. I either try to defuse the situation by removing one of them under some pretext or let them fight it out but DGD1 will kick (even in the stomach), punch, throw objects, pull hair out, is generally violent to me as well as her siblings and becomes dangerous when she loses control. She has recently started to scream and yell 'Shut up, Shut up, Shut up' repeatedly so that speaking to her calmly is not an option. If I try to remove her from the situation she kicks and punches and accuses me of child abuse! She throws toys, clothes and wrecks the bedrooms when I do get her upstairs.

She has improved slightly in that episodes are now shorter and she has learned to say sorry afterwards (not convinced that she means it). I tell her when she is calm that I will always love her but I do not like that behaviour. Little sister is often terrified by her and big brother often tells me he hates her.

I could say that her parents' difficult break up could be a factor but she has been like this since she was a toddler. Tantrums could last several hours then! As I said earlier she has a very similar personality to her mum who has been known to react in the same way.

On the positive side, in between she tells me she loves me and is always ready with kisses and cuddles. She is able to play with her sister beautifully for hours but she is so unpredictable.

Just realised how much I have gone on and how much this has upset me. I have brought up DSs single handed and worked with children with behavioural difficulties and autism but feel helpless in this situation. As you say Granny my time with them can be 'ruined' by this behaviour.

Remember we only usually see part of the disagreement. We usually see the bit once the situation has got to the physical bit, we don't always see the provocation that may have gone before it. Remember younger siblings are masters of the art of 'Ow, get off, Nana he's hurting meeeeeee!' at which point we rush in to rescue the victim and wreak vengence on the agressor!

Your daughter's house rules, which are already in place, perhaps need reviewing together then you can use them in your house too if you want. It's a good idea to make them very visible as a way of reminding everyone how to behave, even better if the children help make a poster or notice with them displayed. The fewer the better 3-4 maximum and make them positive not negative using phrases like 'We are kind to each other' not 'No hitting', 'Use indoor voices' not 'Don't shout'.

Be positive with lots of specific praise for being kind, sharing, etc. when you see it - all the behaviours you want to be repeated. So saying things like, 'Well done Sam, that was good sharing' are much better than a general, albeit well meant, 'Good boy'. It may feel artificial at first but keep at it and you will find it easier.

Be consistent, try to identify the build up to the problems and defuse them before they tip over into fighting.

Time out to calm down works well as long as it is not viewed just as a punishment, so make sure it's in a place with calming down activities close by.

I'd also suggest regularly stopping the car at the local park (if there is one) on the way home from school so that the boys can let off steam and get some fresh air after hours spent in the classroom.

Good luck, hope these suggestions help.

I'd try writing a rota as to whose turn it is first and and alarm for changeover time.Any arguing for either of them and the X box goes for a week.
I'd also have a snack and a drink ready the moment they walk in your house.

Lots of good ideas here. I look after sibling dgs 6 and 3 plus dgd also 6. The problems are almost always between the elder two. From my experience teaching a Parenting Group (would you believe!?) I have found the following works.
Calmly tell the instigator of the fight (or whoever I caught belting the other) that we ARE going into the kitchen and I am going to LISTEN to them. They are going to talk to me. I probably have to repeat this but I am calm and firm. Once we are alone I ask them what happened, they tell me and I ask why they hit the other, is that fair etc. I then get them to agree their punishment which is something like taking the toy they want away for 10 minutes. If it's the tv or iPad then they are switched off/put away. I am lucky that I can then replace screens for a board game which they love. It's really not easy but the listening to them gets their attention and seems to work. Hope this helps

Before they all get out of the car then say, 'If I hear one argument about the xbox or whatever it is they are arguing over then no one will play with it at all and your parents can sort it out when they arrive home'. Then carry out your threat- take the fuse out of the plug if necessary and say the situation will not be discussed further as they have had a warning about it that they have chosen to ignore.

Boys are like puppies- they get on fine for a while then all of a sudden they are rolling around the floor bashing each other. My sons drove me mad (I was an only child & not prepared for this at all!!My husband had a brother & said it was natural & let them get on with it) They are now grown up with children of their own & the best of friends.
My DGS went through this too & sometimes I thought it was an unfair fight but they are now 12 & 10 & get on really well.I used to stop them but they would sneak off somewhere & continue the fight- they enjoyed it although one would always moan he had got hurt if I found them. No blood was ever spilt or anyone get badly hurt. I think it is left over from cavemen & the male of the species has to prove his strength.
Interestingly with both of DS & DGS heaven help anyone who tries to bully their brother!! It's fine for them to fight but anyone trying to hurt their sibling & they are straight in to protect them. I did send them both to Judo in an attempt to teach them you can fight without hurting & they were very good at it & enjoyed it but still fought at home.
They'll soon grow out of it- hopefully.

My youngest daughter has three girls with three years between each they are always either playing lovingly tigether or as my daughter calls it 'bitch fighting' more often than not the latter and the combinations used to change which two were against which one time the oldest and youngest would gang up against middle then another time oldest and middle against youngest etc etc I think it's absolutely normal
I had three and I don't every remember much fighting at all but I think that's because the girls were eldest and youngest with the boy in between I think it's often same sex fighting ....for control I think it's part of growing up and unless they are really looking likely to get hurt let them solve it themselves

Some good ideas here. Thank you. TBH we have tried many of them. Yes they get after school snack and I do have lovely chats with them but in the end they often end up fighting as they take it in turns to have control of the tv or x box and when it's not their turn they start annoying each other. DD and the older one have been doing karate for a couple of years - he loves it - but still anything electronic is his preferred leisure activity. Efforts to engage in other activities are hampered by their varying ages. I do think the plethora of gadgets and internet based games coupled with the 'stranger danger' mindset which stops them being allowed to play outside has been a major factor in it all. Roll on summer - it's easier when they can go outside in the garden!

To help children take turns with things I used to have an egg timer. On the whole they were happy that when the sand had run through they would had over the item and turn the egg-timer over so they would get their next turn.

OP find a karate class for both boys, preferably with the KUGB (Karate Union of Great Britain) There's a list of clubs here.

www.kugb.org/kugb-clubs-list.php

Karate teaches confidence, respect, discipline, resilience and self control (as long as you find a good instructor). Ask to observe a class first so you can see how the class is conducted. The KUGB is a well respected organisation. You may be surprised to know that fighting outside the dojo is discouraged.

I think they're tired and grumpy after a school day, quite normal really. Those who don't take it out on their siblings often take it out on their parents. Do you give them a drink and snack? That can help, followed by having them sit down quietly for half an hour watching TV or listening to a story.

Oh dear. What can you say. Mostly it sounds to me as though the oldest is feeling pushed out. I am sure he isn't, but children get strange ideas and he has had to move over twice when his siblings came in to his life. Perhaps you could take him to one side and ask why he behaves like he does. Try and find out what he enjoys doing and give the other two something they like to do to distract them.

At 9yrs old he is at a cross roads, too old to be treated like a baby, but not old enough to be treated as a grown up. Put the X-box away and get out a jigsaw or something you can do together. Give him lots of cuddles and tell him he is amazing. Talk to him about what he has been doing at school, show him you genuinely care about how he spent his day. The other two are too young to notice that he is getting extra attention, they will play on their own while you have a nice chat with your 9 yr old. Have fun!

I had two brothers, and yes, your OH is right they do scrap, but I bet if the 5yr old was being bullied at school the 9yr old would be there at his side in a flash.

I love the squirty bottle!

I would try putting them in charge on alternate days, so they would get the hang of having to consider other people's needs, it allows them to learn a bit of self control, especially after school, when they come out like corks out of a bottle and can't wait to do something different.

Put your needs into their planning, gran needs cup of tea, dog needs letting out, someone gets first go on X Box, moaners pay a penalty (5 mins treat) incorporate basic chores cleaning shoes, putting washing in laundry basket.......

Boys do fight, like dogs, and it all looks very alarming but it is normal and a way of venting pent up energy.

I got a spray bottle and every time my two started they would get a spray. It got that when they saw me coming they would head for their bedrooms. Luckily boy and girl so they had there own rooms. Filled with water I might add.

Tricia F I wish we'd thought of that one!

I think that's right, it's what brothers do. Our two DSs bickered, squabbled and fought through their formative years. Thinking back, it was very wearing on the nerves and did lead to the occasional exasperated smack. Nowadays I expect they would be sent to their rooms to quieten down. Then there was no way to peaceably settle them. They shared a room, for one thing.

Now, as adults approaching middle age, they get on really well and the families are close. Thank Heaven for minor miracles!

If they were closer in age I'd be tempted to let them get on with it, but a 9-year old is too much bigger than his 5-year old brother. My grandsons are also 4 years apart in age (10&6) so I appreciate the problem. The youngest is quite manipulative too.

My solution is to make it perfectly clear I won't tolerate bad behaviour and that it has consequences. After school activities at my house, in winter, include TV and the iPad. If they can't agree on a programme or film amicably then TV is switched off. They have access to the iPad on a strict rotational basis and time limited.

I play chess with the older boy too. The younger one is more outgoing so two days a week I drop him off at other activities, Circus Skills one night, Drumming lessons another. This gives me more time with his older brother.

But it all comes down to laying out the goalposts in no uncertain terms and having a variety of activities that will occupy them.

I once knew someone who had 3 girls who were always scrapping.
She made them go out onto the grass and fight - until she said they could stop. They were pleading to stop eventually.
Not that I'm advocating that, but it worked.

I think I agree re no X box at all until they learn not to fight over it then perhaps a written rota which is fair to both and not negotiable. Time out also sounds viable if it is what is effective at home. Good luck x

Simple, dont let him use the playstation until he learns to behave. Might sound a bit harsh but why should he stop beating his brother as not matter how many time he misbehaves he wins and gets to use the playstation, so hit him where it hurts him the most... take the PS away

We had this with two of our DGSs when they used to come to us after school. The older one would constantly pick on the younger one. I think you have to be really firm. It's your house so your rules. Withdraw treats and favours until they can settle down and stop arguing etc.

If it's any consolation they're both teenagers now and get on really well!

I do think that time out in a separate room is the way to go. I know that you would rather have jolly time with your DGC, but, when you have them regularly, you have to be part of the less appealing aspects of parenting, like discipline.

I think they will cotton on to your rules pretty quickly.

The writing down is a good idea Ankers! DD could do a reminder note which I can produce when necessary. The time out works very well in their normal life, I've been reluctant to do that and they probably have taken advantage of it! I'd have never let my their mum and uncles get away with what they do! I'm getting soft! And old and have health problems which don't help.

If they argue over something, eg the xbox, stop them using it. The oldest one will soon learn that he doesn't gain anything by tormenting his brother. Separate them if they continue. Not much else you can do.