Help with DIL

Oh dear, Madgran, I see I repeated the same question, basically. Sorry. Didn't see yours till now.

But you're right - no way to know if op will return or not.

PearlJ ...the OP posted several months ago and the visit she asked advice about was supposed to be during the summer. I reactivated it by asking her how it went ...but it might be worth you reading the whole thread as your comments are a bit belated which you probably didn't realise. Easily done - but as it happened because I reactivated the thread, I thought it was only fair to avoid anyone wasting their time. I don't know if the OP will return to comment or not

Did they go through with the summer visit, grandmaeurope? How did it go?

If the baby is breastfeeding you always need to ask if your granddaughter can have any other food. It wasn't that it was "just an orange" its that you are not respecting the mothers wishes.

I'd say back off with any advice , stop trying so hard (it adds undue pressure and makes you seem needy) and yes ask what they would like to do for their visit and ask if you can help in any way.

As for the comment you want to enjoy your granddaughter without the mother interfering, eek! If my mil ever said that I would not want her near me or my child, you need to work on your relationship with your son and dil even if you have to smile through gritted teeth at some of the choices they make as parents.

Actually, not nearly as farfetched as you might imagine. From the context, I suspect Grandmaeurope is French or possibly Spanish. MILs in these countries are TREMENDOUSLY overbearing, telling DILs what to feed their children, how to get them to sleep, where they should sleep, etc, etc, etc, etc. I know, my MIL was Spanish. With the very best intentions, she drove me insane! When my first child was born she visited every afternoon, both in hospital and when we went home. After about three months of this, I told my Spanish husband to tell her that I was perfectly capable of caring for our daughter and to come less often. So she moved to coming every other day. She tried to feed her constantly (she was also breastfed) She grabbed her at every opportunity; My point is, she was not a rarity, or obsessed beyond what was considered normal. It was all in the name of what she thought was right, and born of her love for her new granddaughter. It was a nightmare for me, tho.

Perhaps it was all an elaborate fantasy, I too found it hard to swallow. Giving a breastfed baby an orange ?
Invading her space? Inappropriate touching?
Weird springs to mind.
I would simply reiterate what I said back in March.
Norah and others have said it better than I could.

I really struggle to believe this post is real. However, if it is, as a DIL, I would suggest you back right off. How can you never have heard of breastfeeding on demand, or co-sleeping? Both are absolutely fine for the baby and are great things for your DIL to be doing so stop criticising them. I'm sorry to say this but it's not all about you. Your DIL is a grown up and is in charge of her own baby. For heavens sake don't wake up in the night and offer to help if the baby's crying, it would drive any DIL mad. Etc.

Grandmaeurope Just wondering how the visit went this summer ...I know you were very worried about it and hope things turned out alright.

Perhaps writing it down has helped you to gain some insight into how your behaviour was wrong and seeing the replies on here has helped you (and your DH) to understand that you have overstepped boundaries. I hope your DH will realise that too and you can both take a few steps back and mend fences.

Grandmaeurope Understandably you feel sorry that your DIL feels like that but do you understand why she does, even though incidents were spread out over time?

You need to tread very carefully. Those saying that this can be fixed may be wrong.
She will never ever get those precious days back with her newborn. She may well look back at what should be the best days of her life and only feel sadness and anger. And that will be directed at you two.
When you visit are you staying in a hotel? I'd suggest you not stay in their home. This may be to much for her. If the visit goes ahead at all. She may need to take some time out.
I'd all have a very stern word with your husband! Dear God who the hell does he think he is?! He'd be lucky his head was still attached if I were her. More likely I'd never allow him to take another picture of my child again!

Thanks all for your answers.
Yes i am surprised. Written, all this seems terrible but it happenned during a period of 1,5 months.
judypark, i am shocked by your assumptions. It is simply wrong and not true.
I have a lot to reflect about. I did not know all the resentment my DIL has and i feel sorry for that.

grandmaeurope I am not sure if this because you are writing not in your first language but you are giving the impression that you are surprised that your DIL was upset by the various actions taken by you and/or your husband that you listed in your most recent post. Some may well be a misunderstanding but to be honest several of them appear shockingly insensitive and thoughtless. I believe that you didn't mean them to be but they were! I am also wondering if you need to think about how you come over to your DIL when speaking? Tone of voice? Facial expressions? Body language? All such things are important and even more so when one is a new mother, drowning in hormones for a while and feeling sensitive and nervous in your new and scary motherhood role.

Your husbands behaviour sounds very insensitive too ...especially being in a position to accidentally touch your DIL whilst photographing ...that is seriously invading her space! Why on earth was he hanging around outside their room all the time ...what is going on in his head, doing that? I think you need to think about that with him, and also how all of the things on that list might have felt and looked to your DIL even if unintentionally.

I believe that excitement has run away with both of you to a point where you are unable to see clearly or empathise on how
this must have felt to your DIL, but the consequences of that
are potentially so sad for you and you really do need to think carefully how it can be different when they visit. I repeat ...think about how you are coming over as above and your husband needs to do the same. And think very very carefully about anything you are planning and how it might be experienced by others!! Good luck!

All alarm bells are going off here. Why would your DH want to take pictures of a baby girl having a bath? Why was he lurking outside her bedroom door on several occasions? Accidentally touching her boobs when she is nursing her baby? I don't think so. I know that I would want to know to whom these photos had been sent to.

I've been following this for a while, hoping for a happy resolution, but Jesus, reading the list of things you and your DH did wrong, that's not going to happen any time soon!

I believe that you mean well, and have no malicious intentions. I also believe that you will do what you can to fix the situation with your DIL and son. Will your husband do the same though?

If he is not on board, and willing to apologise for his (actually quite hideous!) behaviour, I see a future without your Grandchild in it for you both.

Most of this can be summed up in one phrase - disrespect of dil as baby's mother. If she says no to something concerning baby, you need to stop. Better yet, ask first. Until you and dh learn to respect her wishes as dgd's mum - and give her and dgd some space - things won't get better. Work on your attitude.

Tbf, you have a right to invite people to your home. If I'm reading correctly, that's where ds and family were staying when you did that. However, it would have been wiser and kinder to ask dil if she were ready for visitors since she had just recently given birth.

About dh touching her boobs - He must have been trying to touch baby while she was breastfeeding or reaching across her in an awkward way while she was holding baby. Either way, he was out of line.

I'm sorry about the window incident. I'm sure dh was holding baby firmly and didn't mean any harm. Just a proud gf, showing off his new gd! But if dil doesn't trust him because of it, I don't think you people will be babysitting any time soon - sorry.

Obviously, you were both over-excited, as you admit. But you need to rein it in.

I think it's good that you let ds know you want to apologize. He will surely repeat that to dil and it will help. But dh needs to apologize, too - his behavior was as bad or worse than yours, imo. And you both need to make up your minds to treat dil with more respect. Keep the list you wrote down, maybe, so you can remind yourselves of the kinds of things you shouldn't do.

Hope everything gets smoothed out in the near future!

The OP's behaviour does sound over the top and interfering but I think she's seen the error of her ways!

A good friend has a DIL from overseas - early in the marriage and pre-children, the DIL sent a long multi-page diatribe to my friend detailing each and every one of her faults and then refused all contact and attempts at mediation by friend's DS.

My friend is very kind and generous but was/is totally over-involved in the lives of her sons. I can quite see how the DIL felt overwhelmed and reacted the way she did. TBH I thought many of accusations were a bit petty but obviously they must have upset her. I can't remember how long the estrangement lasted, maybe a year, and somehow things were patched up and all is reasonable now.

The OP, like my friend, through no ill-intent over-stepped the boundaries but I hope she manages to achieve a happy outcome.

Oh dear, I had sincerely hoped this was a wind up as nobody could be quite as insensitive, crass or unaware of how to behave.
I am at a loss as to what to say as there is nothing you can do to undo this litany of disasters - of your making alas. Cultural differences can explain a lot, but this was an object lesson in how not to act and a disaster from beginning to end.
Apologise unreservedly, back off and reflect on how you might behave in future. You can't undo the past, but you can try to get it right in future.
You say you found some replies "harsh"? I wonder, did you really think you were in the right? If so there is little we can say except you were wrong in just about everything.

Do you not see why someone might have an issue with your behaviour? I don't think this can be blamed on post partum depression- this is because you and your husband have behaved badly. I would be surprised if she visits in July. Going forward, if you would like to maintain a relationship with her, I'd apologise and ensure that you both act appropriately going forward. This means letting her take care of her baby (including feeding) as she and your son see fit, not making personal comments about her appearance etc. She is a human being, not just an incubator for your grandchild. Hopefully the situation can improve but I think you have to understand that you have not behaved appropriately in order to see how to rectify this. I am not getting a sense of this from your post (it may be lost in translation).

- i invited people 7 days after my grandaughter's birth to visit without asking her, WHY on earth would you do invite people to visit another persons home?
- i made allusions about how she was breastfeeding a lot and maybe that's why the baby had colics. She apparently cried about it, WHY would you say that?
- i asked about her weight just after delivery (don't remember), WHY?
- i walked away with the baby in my arms when the baby was crying and she had to chase me (don't remember this specific event but the baby used to cry for her mother when she smeled the smell of milk, i was just probably trying to get her away off the smell, so away from her mother. Not my best move but it happen once), WHY would you take her baby from her?
- one morning she woke up with the baby and i "harassed her" to go back to bed and leave me the baby (don't remember), Terrible
- she was giving a bath to the baby and my husband started to take photos. She asked him to stop and he just argued that he did this for his son. (Was not there), He argued with her about HER baby?
- my husband pushed her aside and she almost fell. He apparently wanted to take a photo of the baby and the mother of my DIL who was visiting, and she was on the way. (I was not there), Again, why?
- At the hospital, my husband kept taking photos with the flash. She asked him to stop but he would not, He is much of the problem, here.
- almost every morning, she opened the door of her room and found my husband waiting behind the door. He apparently said multiple times "i just heard the baby", He stalked the baby?
- my husband mocked breastfeeding (don't remember), and asked 4 times when she will stop breastfeeding, WHY?
- we would not give her space physically in order to touch the baby, He was in her space?
- my husband apparently touched accidently her boobs as he wanted to touch the baby (did not see it), he was way too close if he could manage to touch her body, accidentally
- Once she was gone to the shower and left the baby with us. She came back and found my husband with the baby at the window, showing the baby to the neighbors. She screamed at him to back of the window (he was firmly holding the baby but she freaked out). Again, WHY was he doing this?
- Apparently at Christmas i never said hi or good-bye to her and i would just " jump on the baby". Don't remember ! Dear me, what a list, no digging out of this list, in my opinion

Oh and according to my son, DIL keeps a record of our "offenses" in writing.

So, i had a talk with my son and told him i feel like DIL was backing off our relationship and i want to apologize to her this summer face to face.

He was surprised and just said that the post partum time was difficult for her. He told me stuff she is angry about that i don't remember.
I felt like he was talking about other people. I am just shocked.
All those things happened when they stayed at our home after the birth. I wrote it down because it was too much and most of those things i don't remember.

Some of those things :
- i invited people 7 days after my grandaughter's birth to visit without asking her,
- i made allusions about how she was breastfeeding a lot and maybe that's why the baby had colics. She apparently cried about it,
- i asked about her weight just after delivery (don't remember),
- i walked away with the baby in my arms when the baby was crying and she had to chase me (don't remember this specific event but the baby used to cry for her mother when she smeled the smell of milk, i was just probably trying to get her away off the smell, so away from her mother. Not my best move but it happen once),
- one morning she woke up with the baby and i "harassed her" to go back to bed and leave me the baby (don't remember),
- she was giving a bath to the baby and my husband started to take photos. She asked him to stop and he just argued that he did this for his son. (Was not there),
- my husband pushed her aside and she almost fell. He apparently wanted to take a photo of the baby and the mother of my DIL who was visiting, and she was on the way. (I was not there),
- At the hospital, my husband kept taking photos with the flash. She asked him to stop but he would not,
- almost every morning, she opened the door of her room and found my husband waiting behind the door. He apparently said multiple times "i just heard the baby",
- my husband mocked breastfeeding (don't remember), and asked 4 times when she will stop breastfeeding,
- we would not give her space physically in order to touch the baby,
- my husband apparently touched accidently her boobs as he wanted to touch the baby (did not see it),
- Once she was gone to the shower and left the baby with us. She came back and found my husband with the baby at the window, showing the baby to the neighboors. She screamed at him to back of the window (he was firmly holding the baby but she freaked out).
- Apparently at Christmas i never said hi or good-bye to her and i would just " jump on the baby". Don't remember !

All this sound surreal. But it is my life. We made a lot of errors due to excitement. We though we would never be grand parents.
Now i don't know if the relationship is salvable. My son told me to give them time.
The conversation was in french so excuse me for translation errors.
And for people who do not believe me : i don't care.

Now i will just want july to see them in person.

Sorry but I fully support your son and DIL. The baby is theirs not yours and you don't seem to understand parenting at all. Of course the baby was always breast feeding because that is how the baby increases her supply. Breast milk is absorbed more quickly than formula so babies need fed more frequently! Co-sleeping is very common nowadays especially if you are breast feeding! Who on earth would put an orange in a baby's mouth at 3 months ever! Were you trying to make the baby choke? Weaning is not recommended till 6 months now unless the baby is premature and you start with pureed fruit and veg! as for all the texts! Not going to say any more except glad you are not my daughter's MIL!

Maybe you should do some research regarding breastfeeding and co-sleeping because it seems rather alien to you. You show a complete lack of respect for her choices - these days there is a lot more information around about everything and it's possible to make more informed choices than just doing what everybody else does or what the health visitor tells you to do. I am sure that if you read gransnet you will understand that it is very important in the mil relationship to "Back off" and not interfere. Your dil is a woman and mother in HER own right, think about behaving a little more graciously towards her!

Oh my greatness! You are my MIL. I spoke firmly but nicely on many occas ion about my privacy, space and the way I do things for my family. It all went unheard. So I literally had to become a cold person towards her. It was simple. Respect my boundaries and I will be welcoming of you. It was too hard to comprehend. Today, I'm fair with little visits bi weekly but time spent in her company is drastically reduced. All because of a lack of respect.