Daughter on verge of nervous breakdown

I did think that some poor babies might just be crying because they are over tired and want to be left alone.
I think that can happen Nelliemoser
Some babies seem to need to have a cry for a short while before they suddenly drop off to sleep.
'Getting over the hump' as my DM used to call it

Someone tell my daughter about it. Her two yr old is still being fed to sleep. I know all babies are different but I do think putting them down to bed as babies when you can see they are tired might save parents a lot of sleep.

I doubt if babies have really changed their sleep patterns that much. Did we parents ever fret or even know about x month sleep regressions?
My two slept well and were emotionally attached children, without always being cuddled to sleep. I did think that some poor babies might just be crying because they are over tired and want to be left alone.
Not really whinging, the pair of them are happy bright children.

I'm not saying it will necessarily work, but my much younger sister wholeheartedy recommended to my dd a book by a Dr Ferber - 'Solve your child's sleep,problems' or similar title. Her dd was still a nightmare sleeper at 18 months and she said the method did work inside a week - she wished to heaven she'd found the book sooner.

He explains how babies and young children get in the habit of always going to sleep always a certain way - breast fed, or walked or rocked or pushed, or even lying on the sofa in front of the TV. So when they wake however briefly in the night they have come to expect the same. So they have to be trained to break the habit and self settle.

Trouble is, it does involve leaving them to cry for certain periods, sometimes going in and patting but not picking up, or otherwise interacting or feeding. (Obviously doesn't apply to young babies still needing nighttime feeds).
And this can be so difficult and stressful for parents - it's awful to listen to your baby crying.

My dd has a very poor sleeper of not far off a year old - always breast fed to sleep and in bed with her, waking several times a night - she is permanently so tired, and has a toddler too, but she's finally beginning to try this way, and it's helping so far. I hope to goodness she will stick to it, because I don't know how she'll manage with little sleep once she goes back to work.

I must say that the current 'wisdom' of never leaving them to cry, even when they are evidently badly in need of sleep, does result in some utterly exhausted parents.

"Some people say that a baby should be picked up as quickly as possible if it cries in the night but not spoken to, rocked or comforted - just lifted up for a few moments and then put back down in its cot."

Or just patted and spoken to softly so they know someone is there. Dd did this a few times a night with her oldest who was a poor sleeper, and, after a while, he fell asleep more quickly and for longer periods.

But you say baby is teething. What does dd do about that? Perhaps she needs a more effective method of helping him?

Wait... you say that even if he gets back to sleep, she can't. And that she has trouble resting even when you so kindly take care of baby in the hopes that she'll get some sleep. Maybe she needs to work on calming her own nerves? She's under a lot of stress, after all. Would a cup of tea help? Or some soft music? Reading? Watching TV? Has she tried anything to help HER?

Oh and has she tried "white noise" - a fan, a vacuum, whatever? Iv heard it can help both babies and adults get some sleep.

She should definitely talk to the HV, as pps have said. Also, as pps have said, "This too shall pass."

Is the parenting consistent with the father and mother, or does the father undo everything mum is trying to do? If you gently explain that the growth hormone kicks in at night perhaps both parents will get together and solve the Problem from the infants perspective.

My godchildren were all nightmares at night for their parents, tantrums, throwing toys, refusing to go to bed, screaming till they were sick, and so on ........ All slept through when staying with me. How long? Average of 3 nights if memory serves me right. Definately no longer to solve the problem. Strict bedtime routine, no TVs after tea (even if too young to watch it stimulated them too much when it's in the same room) lower the lights, up to bed, bath and teeth clean, story in bed, lights out and leave the room. Never ever bring them back downstairs.

On the odd occasion night time waking presented itself there was. A strict rule of no lights put on, no drinks given ( only plain water) no lifting up. We did find that a bit harder but again it did not take long. Not easy to do any of this when you are so tired, and it may need the infant being at home for a three week stretch until this is sorted out, mood luck!!

You say that your DD is on her own now and the baby sees Daddy every other weekend.
That sounds as if there has been some tension and perhaps your DD is anxious and perhaps rather depressed - even little children pick up on these tensions and can become anxious themselves; perhaps he's worried that Mummy might leave too.

Sorry if that has touched a raw nerve but we don't know how much children pick up and what goes through their minds even at that age.

The other thing is - does she let him watch tv? I know In the Night Garden is a lovely programme and on at bed-time but it is a known fact that tv and electronic devices just before bed-time are not conducive to a good night's sleep.

With my own DD it was an undiagnosed medical problem that probably stopped her establishing a good sleep pattern and in fact, because I did not know why she woke in distress that in turn made me anxious.

It's two co-existing problems - your grandchild's unhelpful sleeping pattern and your daughter's difficulty with sleeping herself. My younger child slept maybe 4 hrs out of 24. No medical professional could find anything wrong with him and told me it was a bit of hard luck. On the other hand, the second I got a chance to kip I was out like a light.
Your daughter's very lucky that you're on hand to help and it does seem unfortunate that she can't relax when she gets the chance - I absolutely understand how being knackered all the time would make it hard to unwind.

Back in the 80s a sympathetic GP gave me a bottle of Vallergan (antihistamine) to give him one night a week because I was on the edge and my husband was on a warning for falling asleep at work. He'd sleep 12 hrs and we got one decent night a week. Even if you wanted it I highly doubt any GP nowadays would prescribe it. All I can say is that it passes eventually and you just have to struggle through the best you can in the twilight zombie zone until it does.

Oddly enough GS3, who was a very poor sleeper, always slept well at out house. My SiL once asked jokingly (I hope!) do you drug him?

Victoria does your daughter's ex have the same sleep problem when his son sleeps over alternate weekends? And during her weekend 'off' does your daughter manage to sleep?

Victoria, could you not just have a sleep over and get up with the little one for just one night ? I do this for my DIL and DS once a week , I am tired the next day but can nod off if I need to . I have health problems and sleep badly usually but they were getting so stressed out by him waking every couple of hours I just had to do something to help . He is 4 months now and only wakes once or twice so things are improving . I was lucky as my children were quite good sleepers but still remember the exhaustion which can push you over the edge .

Does she take him out a lot in the day and let him run round in the park in the fresh air (wear him out?).
Mind you, DC1 would then nod off at about 4 pm and be fresh as a daisy for hours.

My first DC was not a good sleeper and I had absolutely no-one most of the time as I was far away from family and DH was away.
It is exhausting and can be upsetting if you can find no reason for the wakefulness but more common than you think; however, to say your DD is on the edge of a nervous breakdown must mean that other things are going on, she is getting over-anxious and perhaps she needs to see the GP for her own sake or else just nap when she can. She is lucky to have you to help.
When number two was on the way I was dreading more of the same but he slept well right from the start.

Nandalot.

I thought my DD was desperate but your poor family seem to be suffering much more.

Regarding babies sleep problems. We hope it's only teething or maybe bad dreams, and hopefully will,get better.

When our adult children get stressed, we also suffer, don't you think?

Do you know the reason why your grandchildren can't or won't sleep.

My DD went to doctor, they just prescribe tablets to help sleep, but what use is that when she's not allowed to sleep. Even when he does go back to sleep she can't sleep. Her body clock is all messed up. I sometimes dread her phoning me to complain how tired she is yet again. It's really dragging me down.

Oddly enough, I don't remember going through this when my children were babies.
Maybe I've erased it from my memory.

I do hope things look up for you Nandalot.

Victoria I nearly put up a post with a similar title. My DD is also very tired and stressed. Single mum, no dad on the scene. Twins who at 6 years old never sleep through the night, always ending up in her bed, and are rarely asleep before 9:30 ( though in bedrooms , calling etc). She has a job which is stressful and is under threat. Sleep problems started early because girl twin when she cried started holding her breath until unconscious and sometimes resulting in a fit so DD couldn't leave her to cry . This started before she was a month old so not deliberate. Also had digestion problems causing her great pain. Like you DD neighbour disturbed by noise but unhelpfully said to my DD ' Your children are making me ill' and even talked about police. DD has moved very close to us now but still doesn't like to disturb neighbours so in bad patches moves In with us as our house is detached. We often have twins over to sleep when DD away for work.
After months of being near the edge DD has agreed to see doctor and has appt. next week. Sorry to hijack thread but it has been good to offload a bit. Difficult with DD as usually I have a very close relationship but at mo. Have to watch my word as she is so on edge. I hope your DD can manage to sort out DGS's sleep problems.

Thank you all Gransneters for you advice and experiences.

DD is a recently single parent now, although she remains good friends with the father and he takes baby every other weekend.

Another factor with her being stressed is the fact that baby cries in the night several times, quite loudly and wakes next door neighbours up.
She mentioned to DD that she has taken to sleeping downstairs on the settee.
Luckily she is very understanding about it.

The general consensus of opinion is stick it out.

This too shall pass, so says the Desiderata.

One of my grandchildren was born by section after a difficult pregnancy. The baby was small and his mother given conflicting advice by the midwife and breast feeding supporter which left her feeling overwhelmed and hopeless. One day I suggested she put the baby to sleep and put the washing machine on, or hoover the sitting room so she couldn't hear him cry. She was slightly horrified as she'd felt he shouldn't be left - I suggested he'd survive 5 mins and was probably over tired. Her mum in law and aunt (both retired health visitors/midwives) said exactly the same thing when they popped in.
So Luckygirl, you aren't on your own in being a wicked mum who expected her babies to get used to sleeping once put into their cots.

I agree with many of the thoughts on here, especially Luckygirl's

Some people say that a baby should be picked up as quickly as possible if it cries in the night but not spoken to, rocked or comforted - just lifted up for a few moments and then put back down in its cot. This is, they say, just to give reassurance but not to reward crying with rocking or any other form of comforting.

I think sometimes unhelpful bedtime/sleeping patterns are inadvertently reinforced. My friend used to put her baby to bed and stay with her until she slept - and this continued when she was a toddler.

My children were both put to bed with the expectation that they would go to sleep without further ado. We also did not make a point of tiptoeing around and reducing noise. I think normal household noise is probably a comforting sound.

Having said that, perhaps I was just fortunate and that some babies are just unable to settle or require less sleep than others.

If your daughter has tried some of the things mentioned here - "white noise" tape, calm bedtime routine, ensuring the baby is warm (but not too warm) and not hungry, etc. - and still there are problems, then, as others have suggested, perhaps you could help out one night. I realise it is tiring when you get older but if your daughter is so exhausted that it is making her ill I think you will agree that your taking over for a little while would be worth the sacrifice.

Victoria08, when you look after your DGS in the daytime, are you in your daughter's house?
If so, would it be possible for you to have the child at your house? Or at least to take him out for a specific length of time, such as a couple of hours?
That way your daughter would know she would definitely not be disturbed by him during that time and may be better able to relax and sleep.

If you possibly can, try to cope with having your DGS to stay with you for an occasional night, for that same reason.
You could catch up on sleep in the daytime, after he has gone home.

It's interesting that several toddlers are referred to as sleeping better at their grandparents' place. My DD was a very poor sleeper indeed. Any chance it is allergy to washing detergent? New carpet, wallpaper or paint? See what the HV thinks. With us it was - and still is - certain detergents but it was hugely better once I switched brands. Chin up, things can improve. {smile}

Think N&G were commenting on their own family circumstances Ilovecheese not generalising.

Nanaandgrampy that sort of "we parent your children better than you do" attitude is not helpful. Especially when sleep deprived.

Hi i really feel for your daughter, my daughter was almost 5 yrs old before she went through the night, do you have any other family that could "do a night and day shift with your GS, or even a weekend, ?

It is not for nothing that sleep deprivation is used for torture purposes!

It is tough and it all reminds me of my second DD whose children were the most appalling sleepers, and she spent several years with serious sleep deprivation. I have no brilliant suggestions (sorry!) but I do think it is to some extent the result of modern parenting - that makes me sound a right stick-in-the-mud!

All my children were sleeping through the night by about 6 months at least, because I used to do the nighttime cuddles etc, put them down and shut the door. Naughty me! I knew they were warm and well and fed and they had mobiles to look at and often soothing music too. If they cried when I left, I would just listen outside the door and assess whether their cry was pain or something serious or if they were just doing their "nightly wiffle" - they would gradually drop off with no trouble. They just learned that when in bed you go to sleep!

But all my children have stayed with their children until they fall asleep; whereas mine very quickly got used to the fact that you drop off to sleep by yourself.

I know that I may just have been lucky with my children, but I seriously do question this idea that you must stay with them till they drop off. It can go on like that for years; and for the OP's DD it is probably too late - she is used to a pattern of being stayed with and it is hard to break.

I see no signs that my DDs are in any way psychologically damaged by my nighttime routine. And it helped me to retain a modicum of sanity.

My ds didn't sleep all night until he was 4 and at nursery. We tried every solution known to man and nothing at all worked! It's just as well he was the third and not the first-at least I knew it wasn't anything I was doing/failing to do. We used to have brief respites if he had a cold! He's still a night bird......well, he would be if his boys let him sleep! Karma.........

Sound advice Ginny42. I do believe its harder for young parents now than it was for us and certainly for our parents. My adult children look horrified when we tell them that as babies we were put into huge prams, at the bottom of the garden, regardless of the weather and expected to either sleep or somehow entertain ourselves by watching the snow or the washing and exist on four hourly feeds.
We didn't follow those rigid rules and our own children are inundated with advice from the internet and other resources about the "right" way to teach their children to sleep, eat, play, etc. Of course, each baby is an individual and by the time we get to baby three, as I did, that is no longer a surprise to us. Also, we are less likely to blame ourselves if baby 3 to 7 doesn't sleep through by six weeks - as if!