Social services

I would advise you again to get social services involved so that permanency can be put in place legally , the last thing you want is the scenario of your daughter returning and yet still not being in a position to care for lo and then a court battle ensuing afterwards , believe me , this is nearly breaking me and I would not want anyone to go through this stress and pain and worry etc so get little one settled legally ASAP

I am a foster carer so have regular contact with SS. Our experience has been positive. SS are very in favour of family fostering a child where it is at all practicable. SS try to minimise the disruption to a child's life but I think they may try to re-build your DD's relationship with your dgd. Do not be afraid to go to SS and seek support. Once they fully understand your position and see your dgd with you they will help you to put fostering on a more formal footing.

Contact www.grandparentsplus.org.uk/our-new-look for help and advice with caring for your GD. I wish I had known about this amazing organisation over 13 years ago when my DD asked SS to put my only GC into care for a "short time" as I was about to go on holiday. DGD was just 6 months old and they lived with me but DD wasn't coping. I was working full time then and in my early 50s. SS thought I was too old ? To care for a baby etc and it took nearly 7 months to get her home plus reams of paper work written late at night after work, Court appearances, home inspections etc. Fortunately I was allowed a solicitor for free after my initial court appearance or it would have cost me thousands. I'm not sure if this is still possible. I was finally awarded a Residence Order by the Court, DD moved out and I gave up work to look after my DGD full time. Maybe I should have applied for a Special Guardianship but had found the whole thing so draining I didn't want to ever go to Court again!! Our SW was fairly supportive during the 7 months, but soon after she withdrew from our lives and hasn't been in touch since. Meanwhile my DGD grew into a delightful toddler with bags of confidence. Life hasn't always been easy, but she is now almost 14 and is doing exceptionally well at school, earning loads of academic awards and has represented her secondary school many times in her 2 years there, often speaking in front of peers or even large groups of adults, with confidence. I am very proud of her, though having a teenager at home can be hard work! I would do it all again if necessary.
Grandparents Plus will advise you on the best way forward and how to get financial support and how to apply for PR or Guardianship etc. There may be a local group in your area, but there is lots of information on their website and you can always email them for more personal advice or phone them on 0300 123 7015. They help grandparents, or other close relatives, who look after GC or who have lost touch with GC, or are simply helping out with childcare. Good Luck x

Flunkiel I have to agree with the advice given by Iam. My other concern is that, as your daughter is the only one with pr, she is the only one who can make decisions about things such as schools, applying for a passport, and importantly, about medical treatment including in the case of emergency. This may be manageable while your daughter is supportive of you and while she is easily contactable, but could cause problems if her situation changes. I have come across situations where urgent medical treatment was needed and the person with pr could not be contacted - this too is the last thing you need to have to worry about. For your GDs sake I urge you to secure her place with you and give her the legal security she deserves to reinforce the emotional security you have provided throughout her life so far

Hello Flunkeil, there are some positive comments from people who've had experience with children's services which I hope will reassure you.
As everyone has said, any sw will focus on supporting children to stay within their family. It sounds as though your daughter would support securing her little girls life with you. Taking legal advice is a good idea though I realise its expensive. The Family Rights Group have a good website where you will find advice on the legalities of Special Guardianship Orders. Nightowl has set out what that means and how it works.
Some people have suggested you just let the situation run but my anxiety about that is that your daughter could arrive at any time and take her daughter to live with her. Currently, your daughter is the only person with Parental Responsibility so no one could stop her unless the law in the form of a Police Protection Order or some kind of emergency order under the Children Act was made. That kind of upheaval is the last thing any family needs. Best of luck.

My daughter got in trouble with SS for neglecting my grandson, even though I done a lot of caring for him. In the end I had to go through the ordeal of an SGO (Special guardianship order) It gives you enhanced PR Its a harrowing journey, everything has to be the truth, they do an enhanced police record thingy, ask you loads of personal questions, you have a full medical and its a pretty long process. It worked out food in the end though as my 3 year old grandsons still living with me and my hubby, and hes gorgeous. Hes happy and thriving here thankfully, but me and him was always close. I got his first smile, steps etc.

But I thought the OP wanted shared parental responsibilities ?

Maryeliza54 you don't have to involve social services at all. You can make arrangements for children without them.

My ex-husband grew up believing his mother was his sister, his grandmother was his mother, with SS having no involvement at all until it all went horribly wrong. His biological mother decided she wanted him back when he was 12 (she'd get more benefits for him) just as he reached an age where he wasn't really capable of making a sensible decision but was an angry boy because of all the lies that had been told. The upshot was he went back to his mother and his life spiralled downhill from there so he is still feeling the effects years later. I would seek help from a family matters solicitor who has knowledge of these things so you can come to a decision about what is the best thing for the child and you know which direction you want the SS to aim for.

My son and his ex-wife had my gd very young. The mum was a very troubled girl and although she (admirably) breastfed her baby for about 15 months, she left her with me a lot and my gd lived with my husband & me on & off for 11 years, until she was old enough to have a key to her dad's house. Social Services never had to be involved. She is grown up now, and we love her to bits. I did used to worry that I made it too easy for her mum to leave her, and that I was interfering with them bonding, but I also tried to make sure that my gd was safe and had continuity in her life.

My son and his ex-wife had my gd very young. The mum was a very troubled girl and although she (admirably) breastfed her baby for about 15 months, she left her with me a lot and my gd lived with my husband & me on & off for 11 years, until she was old enough to have a key to her dad's house. Social Services never had to be involved. She is grown up now, and we love her to bits. I did used to worry that I made it too easy for her mum to leave her, and that I was interfering with them bonding, but I also tried to make sure that my gd was safe and had continuity in her life.

Oh dear foxie bad advice to keep SS out of loop.

Why do you need to tell anyone about the situation at present. I would suggest a waiting game and carry on as normal. In any event I'm sure that SS if you need to contact them would look favourably on your caring for your DG

I have friends who were in a similar situation, get a solicitor and sort out what it is you want. It may take time and some money but it will be worth every penny.

I know a family in which Mum wasn't caring for the children properly and the social services gave custody of the children to her parents, the children's grandparents. Hope it works out for you. x

As a recently retired social worker my heart has been gladdened by all the positive comments about my former profession on this page. They reflect my experience and I wish the media would recognise that, when they jump on the bandwagon to demonise and scapegoat my former colleagues, they do not just cause people like Flunkiel unnecessary worry but actually put adults and children at risk who could be helped. The British Association for Social Workers has recently launched a campaign to improve the image of the profession, which I fear is at least 10 years overdue. I loved my job and felt privileged to have been able to help many of the people I saw to make a difference to their often heartbreaking situation. It is far more difficult to do this now that resources are virtually non existent and the media continue to promulgate fear, suspicion and contempt of the profession. However, far and away the vast majority of social workers continue to do their very best to help people in challenging circumstances. My son has just entered the profession so, reading this page has reassured me that contact with social services can (usually) still be a positive experience for all concerned.

We had a mix of good and bad SWs and, thank God, a sensible, down-to-earth head of SSD who didn't much care for some of her employees, especially when one decided, without permission, to place DS (then aged 8) in the Guardian advertising him for adoption. She overruled him, placed DS with MIL and he eventually came home to us when he was 17. He's now 34 and the damage has been irrevocable - DS is still a mess, feels he doesn't know us very well and we have all decided we're friends rather than parents/child. But I'm sorry for good SWs -they're damned if they do or if they don't. Be prepared to fight for GD if necessary, but I think you'll find that they and, if necessary, the courts will be only too pleased to accept the status quo. Good luck.

Hi Flunkiel - I fortunately or unfortunately have plenty of experience with this lol

My Grandson with Autism has been living with me for nearly 2.5 years now and my advice to you would be to get social services on board as they may be able to support you with getting guardianship

They are paying for some of my solicitor fees and supporting my application for guardianship and it is so good to have them on board right now fighting little man's corner with me!

I would seriously advise you to get things moving with them ASAP as even though your daughter is showing no interest right now things can change ( believe me ) eg she could meet someone and then want to be a little family , am not saying that would definitely happen but it CAN so to ensure little ones future security I would get in touch with SS straight away

I have had approx 9 social workers so far lol ( my case has dragged on for numerous reasons ) and I can honestly say only one of them has been bad but she was really bad lol the rest have been an absolute pleasure to work with and I have actually got pretty fond of a few of them who had to leave , they are involved in your life and family to a great degree but that is not a bad thing as they see you as you really are over time and so can support your case

If you feel you have given your daughter every chance possible now to bond with and be a good Mum to her daughter then it is indeed time to go for guardianship

PART of my reasons for delaying it was to give my daughter every chance to get well ( mental health and addictions etc ) first and on this her pretty much last chance she is blowing it by being devious and lying and tbh pretending to be well when she is not so I have no choice but to fight for little man now

Good luck and it sounds like you are doing your daughter a favour and she will possibly be very grateful to you and it won't affect or destroy your bond like it is doing with my daughter right now

Yours should be a simple case tbh and hat's off to your daughter for being honest at least , if she cannot cope then it is obvious lo is much better of with you and like others have said they do like to keep the child with family if possible so they will be one your side

I honestly do not feel you will have any problems x

A difficult situation flunkiel but you have had good advice.
Please be assured that social services do not willingly remove children unless there is good reason and always prefer(red) for children to remain with family. Both for reasons of stability and quite frankly financial because it does cost huge amounts to keep a child in care, and it is well known that future outcome for children in care is often poor. When working i was involved with a number of such cases.

Thank you Nightowl for your advice. I live in England. Sadly we don't know anyone who has been in this position before to advise us so we're trying to figure this out on our own, hence asking on here.

Flunkiel you don’t say whereabouts you live but if it’s in England or Wales the following advice may be helpful. I think the best course of action in your case would be an application for a Special Guardianship Order. This order is midway between what used to be called a Residence Order (now a Child Arrangements Order) and adoption, and is seen as a more appropriate order for grandparents and other relatives. Your daughter would retain pr but you would gain pr and would have the the right to make all day to day decisions throughout your granddaughter’s childhood, even if your daughter disagrees with you. Your granddaughter cannot be removed from your care by your daughter or anyone else while the Order is in force (other than for reasons of child protection).

You need to inform Children’s Services of your intention to apply for an SGO and they will advise you how to make the application. I suggest you contact the fostering and adoption service of your local authority - some have specialist SGO teams, some don’t.

This advice relates only to England and Wales. Scotland of course has its own legislation and if you live elsewhere in the world you will need to seek advice from child care services there. I hope it all works out for you. It sounds very straightforward if your daughter is in agreement and I can assure you Children’s Services will not be looking to remove your gd from your care.

Starlady, gd's dad is not on the scene (hasn't been since gd was 2 months old) no idea where he is, csa couldn't find him as he works for a fairground company travelling up and down the country and gets paid cash in hand so not registered anywhere, again I don't know how that works if we can't find him to get his permission on anything if it goes to court?

If dd would like you to adopt gd, please start looking into that now. She would have to give up her parental rights - she probably would - or they would have to be terminated. Same with the dad's. And it may take time and money though not as much if no one is fighting you. But once it was done, you and dh would be the parents, and you wouldn't have to worry about dd, suddenly, wanting her back. Just my thoughts.

Monof3, no that's fine. I was working full time on shift work when my gd came along, daughter would have her mates round all day. My daughter wanted a career so I looked after my gd when my daughter was at work on my days off. My husband and I started out with a hands off approach in the beginning but when my gd's needs weren't being met we had to step in. I can support my daughter to be a parent but sadly I can't make her WANT to be one, even since she's been gone I can't even get her round here to put her daughter to bed. Trust me I would love to be the fun grandparent!

Ok I don't mean any disrespect or to sound disrespectful is there any chance that you and your husband took over and maybe your daughter never really had the chance to bond with her daughter and this does
require you to be brutally honest with
yourself and maybe had postnatal depression.

I say this because professionally I have come into contact with teenage mothers and it is not unusual for the grandmother to answer for her daughter.

If there is no sign of abuse or addiction from your daughter I think social services with hopefully the mental health team will try and repair the parental bond with every goodwill in the world you are the grandparent and not the parent. When the child is a teenager the consequences of the broken bond could be very difficult.