Lost again

Nonnie the first part of your last post, mirrors my situation, 5yrs+ since I've seen my beloveds

Thanks for the kind words and flowers.

I don't have a huge amount of self confidence so have spent many hours of my life trying to work out what I did wrong, running it honestly around some friends and family and being told over and over again that it is not my fault. I don't expect anyone to believe what I say because they are only hearing one side of the story but I can honestly say I have only ever offered love (and paid for things too) and, even when having done nothing wrong have apologised in the hope of improving matters. Nothing I have done has worked, I don't think anyone could have been kinder than DH and I have been but we have been accused of all sorts of things in a general way but with no specific examples of our supposed bad behaviour. All we can do now is ask 'how high' when DiL says 'jump'.

One day our GC will be able to make up their own minds and decide what kind of people we are. Two years ago one of them said"Grandma doesn't tell lies but Mummy does" so they are already aware in a small way. I am just glad to think that, at their age, children accept what happens at home is normal and it is only when they are older that they can look at their home life objectively and see what their mother has done over the years. Then they will see that they had a loving wider family who they were prevented from visiting and enjoying.

On the other hand I have two truly wonderful DiLs and two other GC who I see and enjoy, they don't live near but Skype is wonderful and they come and see us at every opportunity. They keep reminding me that I am a nice person and that none of it is my fault.

Margrete

Margrete, don't be so sure you won't get GGC from gay GD. My daughter is gay and a year ago had a dear little boy whose father is a gay male friend of hers, by IVF. They are both wonderful parents to him so he will grow up having a Mummy and a Daddy, just the same as if they split up before he was born but without the lingering resentments and conflicts that divorced couples often harbour.

This is all so sad..... from what I gather the DiL wants 100% control, contact and attention?
I have a SiL just like that.
Haven't seen my brother in over 10 years.

'Excommunication' is absolutely the right word. Since discovering Gransnet I've found that the problem is not rare. For many reasons, in different families, it exists. It's not something I ever imagined could happen, in earlier years. I am only thankful that some of the people who were in my life have gone, by natural means. They simply would not have understood.

Me, I am not heartbroken. I will not allow my heart to be broken. I still have a good life, a loving husband who is a soulmate in every sense of the word, enough money, a warm and comfortable home.

Yesterday in church I was talking to a young woman whose grandad - he'd been a real church stalwart - has recently died at 93. He had a lovely little GGD, a little blondie of about 1 year - whom he'd seen every day. I thought of my two GGDs born premmy in Sept 2012. Never seen them, been told I never will. Really, all down to my surviving eldest D and her younger D. They even came to her sister's funeral - my younger D died very suddenly 16 years ago, never saw her 40th birthday. You would think, as I do - they might think 'people are not here for ever, not for long, let's all be there for one another'. Not a bit of it. My lovely husband is 'a snake' and marrying him was disloyal to her dad who died in 1992. Fortunately we're on good terms with my elder GD, who is gay, so no GGC from that direction! But she's the only one out of the lot of them.

Everyone who posts on here has a different story and I had no idea it was so widespread. I could never have imagined it, but it happens.

One thing to bear in mind is that if a DC or Sil/Dil does a CO, it means they are the CO type and can do it again and again after resuming contact. Each of us has a repertoire of behaviour resources, and once CO has been chosen as a tool and worked, we/they can use it again for all sorts of situations. What makes it even more difficult is that often these passive aggressive types don't make it clear what triggered the CO (or it was triggered by something internal anyway) leaving us thinking it was something we did, so we avoid doing that again when contact is resumed only to find ourselves CO again out of the blue. My theory is CO behaviour is triggered by an emotional storm in the cutter-off because someone with better coping mechanism can manage our undesired behaviour in a more positive way. Assuming that is that we're not actually a dangerous psychopath who literally has to be physically avoided :D

I have a little experience of this. Nowhere near as severe, but still upsetting. My DD is living in Europe, so I don't get to see that much of them, but her husband resents me being 'granny' and having a close relationship with my GS. He never had it as a child, in fact he was in many ways neglected by his parents, and didn't know his GPs so he doesn't really grasp that I'm not usurping their role when my GS comes to me. For example when my GS was very young, if he reached out to hold my hand I had to pull away. When we were in the car SiL would watch in the mirror to see if we were holding hands. My DD actually told me I could hug GS but not when SiL was around. We came very close to falling out permanently, but I wouldn't allow anything to come between my DD and I. Consequently I have a well-bitten tongue.

It seems to me that this alienation is a form of abuse. It's very controlling behaviour. for Nonnie and Nanban. Sad name Nanban.

Oh Nonnie how awful! for you and Nanban

Nanban how are you? you still have your humour I see

Dear Nonnie -how terrible that your words resonate, same for same. How can such an awful pattern be so familiar. Our d-in-l simply stopped speaking to us, took herself off into another room and just spoke through the children. From then on we had very few more meetings when the children were handed over to us for an hour, or a trip to a park after which we would hand them back never knowing if that was to be the last time. On the very long journeys home we discussed how we could get through another time, could we stand the stress. And then another summons would come and off we went again. It sounds horribly like you go through the same and for that I am so so sorry.

So you've had experience with this, Nonnie? (I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with your story.)

So so sorry Nanban.

Being 'allowed' to see the GC in such situations is a mixed blessing. You wait for the message telling you what you must do on the day, you book the hotel (having been told which one to book) and hope that, when the time comes, you will still be able to see them. On the day you worry all the time that something you do will be twisted into doing something wrong, something you say may be misinterpreted and that you won't get them home at the stated time. The innocent GC say things which make it very clear what their parent's think about you. For the week afterwards you wait for the backlash. At times you wonder if it is all worth it.

Glad that our words help, Nanban!

I'm wondering, since you were, sadly, co once before, did you see it coming this time? Or did it come as a complete shock?

Spotted a son-tweet this morning - I can't of course respond directly but the tweet went - how relevant is a use by date on a steak and Oh How I Wanted to Say - don't know, try it on the wife!

Hello everyone - your messages are like a bandage on a sore spot

Sorry to hear you are estranged for the second time. I cannot imagine what that must feel like. We have 2 DDs and a 2 year old granddaughter soon to have another as one of my DDs is pregnant and it would hurt dreadfully not to see them all regularly. Deepest sympathies.

Yes*Maddy*, these children are being taught that people and relationships are disposable. My hope for our GC is that their parents behaviour is an example to them of how not to behave and treat others.

So true Maddy xx

smileless your grandchildren are not fortunate that they've never seen you, but they are fortunate that they've been spared the grief of having beloved grandparents snatched away. That sounds a bit contrary, but if your grandchildren had been allowed to know you they would have have gained so, so much. But I think you're right in that they have been spared the pain of losing you, that's true.

What nanban's grandchildren are making of a second estrangement is hard to know, but I know what I think, and sadly I think it's extremely damaging to the children to be used as pawns in this way. And what it teaches them about the management of relationships can only be guessed at, but it can't be positive. They are not learning to negotiate, to be kind, to be caring, or that family is important and precious, and irreplaceable are they?

Nanban, I don't know your story, but can feel your pain. To be cut off for the second time from your grandchildren and sons is cruel. To be reconciled and have it snatched away. Hope you and your husband get the strength to move on with your life as I know too well all the tears and worry changes nothing.

Nanban, I am so sorry that you are facing this again.

That's so true maddy and it's a great pity that these parents put their own selfish desires above their children. Our GC are fortunate that they never knew us. The oldest was just 8 months when we last saw him and we've never seen his brother.

That said, our DS has told us that at 6, the eldest is already asking 'difficult' questions.

The hurt is not only felt by the grandparents, the grandchildren suffer too, and knowing this makes the grandparents suffer even more. When I knew my little grandson asked if his grandad was dead, it made me very, very sad (we hadn't been allowed to see grandson for some time.)

So sorry to read this nanban, I joined gransnet a while ago now, but probably after you were originally co. I don't remember your original post and poem, but reading about what has happened again I can only say how very sad it is and I hope things improve for you soon.