Dil won’t let me be grandma

Jalima, Eglantine, Newmom, Luckygirl and Madgran,

When my GC were infants, I seldom got the chance to bathe, dress or feed them due to geographical distance. I recall after my middle daughter's second baby (a girl), I was there early enough to assist with her first bath and three days later we were heading back home.

When same GD made her First Communion this past May, her mum and I were all over her like (two) fairy Godmothers dressing Cinderella. It was so much fun for the three of us and my granddaughter looked like a princess!

I think that's what some Grandma's are missing and that's what they mean by wanting 'alone' time ....... but no matter, when grandmothers become estranged, it's very sad.

I also found it amusing that my great gran got a pass even though she moved into her pregnant granddaughter's apartment (unannounced and without anyone's permission) for two whole months. I guess she redeemed herself because she was helpful (only after the fact, however). If one of our young mums sought advice on this forum today, (about her own grandma showing up on the porch)......can you imagine the responses?

Jalima I understand not everyone has paternity leave or parents or in-laws, I was just thinking about the flip side of a situation like that in Willas post. It's great if everyone gets on and wants help from family, but in situations like the OPs that clearly wouldn't work.

Maybe there needs to be more deference towards parents instead of automatically treating them as if they were 'anyone' else

That's fine if your parents are supportive and helpful. But if they aren't then if you wouldn't take overbearing, critical behaviour off anyone else then why would you take it from the people who are supposed to support you, just because they are family. I was thinking about Willas post in terms of situations like the OPs.

^ my parents kept giving suggestions that directly contradicted safe sleeping guidelines and rolled their eyes when I explained that. I know that lots of children survived sleeping on their front or side or with cot bumpers but I just wasn't prepared to risk it, I wasn't going to defer to them just because they had done it before.^
well, there's your answer - willa's grandmothers didn't do that. Nor did my DM.

it wasn't needed because I had DP there to do the housework. When DD was born he took 2 weeks paternity (like the vast majority of men in the U.K.) and he did most of the nights with DD for those two weeks and he did all of the cooking and housework so I could rest
There was no such thing as paternity leave until 2003 Newmom

If, of course, their husbands were not working away as mine was, they may have been able to have a couple of days off work or even take a week of their meagre (in those days) annual leave.

I agree Eglantine

Willa I would have told declined my mom or my MILs offer of staying with me when I had DD, it wasn't needed because I had DP there to do the housework. When DD was born he took 2 weeks paternity (like the vast majority of men in the U.K.) and he did most of the nights with DD for those two weeks and he did all of the cooking and housework so I could rest. After he went back to work he continued to do any housework I didn't get around to doing in the day. Now, I know all men aren't like that but the point is that there are two parents, if they are both pulling their weight then the baby and house are taken care of without expecting grandparents to help.

Also, it's a lovely situation if everyone gets on and I'm sure helps a lot, but what if your mom had hated having her MiL or her own mother there? Should she have just put up with it to 'respect her elders'? Surely when a woman has just given birth, is hormonal and dealing with some of the unpleasant after effects of childbirth her feelings should be priority? She shouldn't made to be uncomfortable in her own home, or feel pushed out with her child just because others want to help. There's also so much that has changes across generations, my parents kept giving suggestions that directly contradicted safe sleeping guidelines and rolled their eyes when I explained that. I know that lots of children survived sleeping on their front or side or with cot bumpers but I just wasn't prepared to risk it, I wasn't going to defer to them just because they had done it before.

The best thing my MIL did, which ensured that I could happily have her visit was to not offer advice and when we discussed something that had changed she accepted it without making me feel like an over paranoid first time mother.

Yes - that is a different scenario, where Grandma kept the household ticking along so Mum could have time with her baby.

I agree with Eglantine - she was there to help and allow your mother to look after you and bond with you.

After I was born, she continued to help with the household, so my mum could look after me.

She knew what was needed and didn't try to take over the maternal role.

Ah but the difference willa was that she was there to take care of your mother, not to take possssion of you, demanding her “rights” as a grandmother and taking you away from your mother so that she could have her “alone time”.

And once your mother was fit and well she packed her bags and left her to enjoy her new baby.

I find all this “alone time” thing very odd. Quite possessive in fact. Why would you want to take a baby away from it’s mother? How can it be beneficial for a baby to be seperated from its mother? Nature meant them to be together. Necessary sometimes maybe.

And whatwould you be doing with a baby that you couldn’t do if its mother was around? If you say but if she’s there the baby wants her and not me, well isn’t what the baby wants the most important thing?

Beats me, Jamila. I’ve had to change a couple of corkers today. DSIL is working from home and was first to spot the most fragrant one. He fetched me the changing mat.

and if you hand them a toy to play with to keep their fingers out of the mess, make sure it's a plastic, washable one
Singing lots of jolly songs at the same time

Maybe there needs to be more deference towards parents instead of automatically treating them as if they were 'anyone' else.

I don't make this comment lightly and I suspect I may get a lot of push back. I'm putting my thoughts out there because I was reminded of my own mother and what I happen to know about the days surrounding my own birth.

It seems that as my mum approached her due date, her paternal grandmother (my great grandma) arbitrarily took it upon herself to pack her bags and show up on her doorstep. This was almost a month before I was born. My mother was going to need a lot of help she said and she was up to the task. You see, 73 years ago, adult children had to be respectful towards their elders and my mother welcomed her with open arms even though she was taken by surprise.

Telling her to 'take a hike' or to 'mind her own business' would have been unheard of in those days. Once she settled in however, my mum soon realized that she no longer had to knock herself out over housework. My other grandmother (mum's mother) and her mother in law, (great grandma) took care of my mom between the two of them. Great grandma kept house, cooked meals and kept everything humming, while my maternal grandmother sewed baby clothes, knitted blankets and made quilts. When the time came, my dad was at work, so it was my great grandma who called the cab.

After I was born, she continued to help with the household, so my mum could look after me. When I was six weeks old, she packed her bags and bid everyone farewell. I have a faded picture of her somewhere with me in her arms on the day they came home from the hospital.
About two years later, she visited again, this time with great grandpa. I don't actually remember HER but I do remember being held by someone familiar and being loved very much. She died when I was four years old.

I can't help but wonder how different things would have been if my mother had told her to take a hike.

why would anyone want to do nappy changing if they don't have to?

Beats me, Jamila. I’ve had to change a couple of corkers today. DSIL is working from home and was first to spot the most fragrant one. He fetched me the changing mat.

I understand your reference to " my grandchild" as you were narrating the story appropriately from your perspective and experience. Time alone is known as quality time and builds a bond for a relationship that benefits the child (unless you're an abuser or pedophile). Your feelings wishing to share love and affection are commendable as statistics demonstrate the benefits of such relationships. No such thing as too much love.

"What's abnormal about a GM wanting to be involved her GC's life and to help with feeding and bathing?"

Feeding and bathing children are things you do when they are in your care, not a right.

And yes, we all want to be involved in our grandchildren's lives, but that position is earned.

My MIL, even though I was separated from her son, was so supportive of me and my child, how could I not involve her? But she treated me as a friend, so I also enjoyed visiting her.

Yes Dolcelatte I know our situations are nothing like the OP's and how similar our stories are. As you say, it's scary. We can only dream of seeing our GC at all.

When we had our first, my m.i.l. was very hands on with nappy changes and bottle feeding. She was the first one ever to baby sit our DS. I don't know who was more anxious that first time we left him for a few hours, me or her. Her I suspect. Of course we had nothing to worry about, she raised 5 of her own.

Unwanted advice is never welcome, especially when you're a new and nervous mum. Parenting styles change over the years but we did manage to raise our own children didn't we.

I also respect the OP's feelings Dolcellatte and think it's a shame that her feelings, whether warranted or not, are blighting what should be a happy time.

Newmom it sounds as if you and your partner are successfully navigating a difficult situation.

Sorry Smileless I missed that part.

I think in a lot of situations it's both parties at fault. More down to personality clashes I think. In laws are thrown together and even though they all care about a mutual person they won't necessarily get on.

My mom is very different to me (very extroverted and overly emotional) but I just get on with her because she's my mom and I have to. I'm much more like my partner and quite private, my mom doesn't like that he's not overly chatty and doesn't want to sit with her for hours at her house or whilst she visits us (I don't particularly want to either!) but he's polite to her. Makes a cup of tea and some small talk then goes off to do his own thing, which I'm fine with and she thinks is rude. She expects him to completely change who he is to suit her expectations (which I wouldn't expect of him to do) but she doesn't think she should have to change her expectations of him at all. There's no compromise on her part, I suspect the OP is a lot like that.

Jalima according to my mom, changing nappies is part of helping them to bond with the baby. Personally, I think it's more about reliving their days as parents, sort of like playing mommy I guess.

Smileless, your post at 09.51 rings so true for me that it's scary. But our situation is a million miles away from this one, where my sympathies are entirely with the new mother (whilst respecting how OP feels).

Yes Newmom I realise of course that the OP's situation is nothing like ours. My post was in response to PECS.

It's hard sometimes but we do need some balance. It isn't always the d.i.l. and son who are at fault, sometimes it's the m.i.l. and it isn't always the m.i.l. who is at fault either which is why another point of view like Fizzy's for example is good to read.

I find it quite shocking how some people behave and very sad when a m.i.l. like yours Fizzy throws away her relationship with her son, d.i.l. and GC.

why would anyone want to do nappy changing if they don't have to?

Just asking

(that is not to say I did not when I had the DGC but coping with a wriggling baby when you're getting older is not the best fun)

This thread popped on mumsnet yesterday
Oh!! Fizzy thanks for alerting us just how far these threads go.

It's the difference between introducing your DGC as 'My Grandchildren' when you have sole charge of them, as I did the other day but then continuing with 'they are DD and SIL's children or DS and DIL's children', to referring to them continually in a possessive way

But Smileless2012 can you not see that this is a very different situation to your own?

The OP has not been cut out, she sees her GC and her son. She's spending the majority of Christmas Day with them. Her DIL isn't excluding her, she still spends time with her GC. Just not in the way she wants as she expects to be doing feeding and nappy changing and babysitting. She's not being stopped from being a grandma as those aren't things which are necessary for her to be a grandmother. I haven't let anyone (other than my partner) do those things with my DD, that doesn't make them any less her GP, or aunt or uncle. Not because I worried I would look 'weak' as a pp suggested, I just didn't need the help (she was an easy baby) and enjoyed looking after her, knowing I was going to be away from her once I returned to work part-time.

I understand there are situations where there is abuse which isolates sons from their families. But there are just as many situations where the MIL has pushed her DIL away, and probably far more situations where the son can't be bothered to contact his mom, doesn't arrange to see her and the family then gravitates towards the DILs side.

Thinking about it, I'd be interested to know if the baby is breastfed. That could explain a lot of the DILs actions (the OP not feeding the baby, the baby being on 'lockdown' with his mom).

Also, OP, for the daycare explanation. We chose daycare over family taking care of DD as if family were ill and unable to take care of DD we would have to take time off work, that's not an issue with daycare.

Fizzy, thanks for giving us a d.i.l's point of view. You certainly have an obnoxious m.i.l. But for the rest of us who have done nothing except love and cherish them, it's sad. One of my d.i.ls is also very "possessive" of the children and won't let anyone change their nappies etc, not even her own mother. So, thats fine.
I only wish she would bring them over to see me.......it's always me who has to ask to go over to see them. But if that's the only way, I can see them, so be it .

I am a mum to 2 young children and This thread popped on mumsnet yesterday, I originally stopped myself from commenting but then your comment Mammy rings so true in my situation.
This is the way my mil was with me she referred to my children as HER grandchildren and when I say that they were my children apparently no one says it and means it the way I do. She interpreted everything I said the wrong way and when I would try to explain would twist it and make it all about her to the point I would end up exploding at her (my way of dealing with situations unfortunately not just with her but most people!)
No one got a look in with my DS and my own mum used to joke that no one got hold of him but that’s how I am as a mum I like to do things myself and changing nappies and pushing prams in my job my DH didn’t even get to push our pram for a long time lol!
We have now not spoken to her for over a year after she wrote abusive letters to my DH and myself and told my DH he was bullied by me and to not cut all ties with them because WHEN everything goes wrong he wouldn’t have them to fall back on! The last time we were in their company she ignored everything I said to her like I just wasn’t in the room and to be honest that type of behaviour is not something Myself or DH would like our children growing up around. When I brought up that day she said no because I don’t actually want to speak to you... lovely!
I really do think that the OP should really take on board all of the comments and back off else you will loose your DS and GC like my MIL has and it’s not my doing at all her behaviour has pushed my DH away and he is the one that does not want contact not a controlling wife!

You have the upper hand here and the tools to fix it. You know whats wrong, She has told you. She finds you overbearing. You don't like her and I imagine she isn't keen on you so why would she choose to spend time with somone who doesn't like her or gravitate towards someone who makes her feel criticized.

You are not being 'cast aside' you see them twice a month and are spending the majority of Christmas day with them. Your expectations are different to theirs maybe it's time to lower them.

If you want her to gravitate towards you more you need to actually like her and respect her.
She sounds like a normal first time mom and I can't see anything terrible she has done.

If your son or daughter marries someone who is emotionally abusive, there's really nothing you can do about it PECS.

Our ES was raised to be loving, kind and respectful. To value his self worth, to stand up for not just himself but others who are being ill treated. To value honesty and integrity but it seems that none of this prepared him for life with an emotional abuser.

Abusers gradually erode their victim's self esteem. Distance them from family and friends so that they're the only one who is 'there' for them. Apart from occasional contact with his older brother, our son has nothing to do with any of his family. Then there's the threat of not being able to see their children when the 'it's us (her and the children) or them' gauntlet is thrown down.

We don't know if our son is happy but let's assume that he is. His wife is nothing like me. I wouldn't suppose for one moment that he'd have been happier if he had married some one like me but I can say for certain, that he wouldn't have thrown away his family if he had.