daughter in law

I can see both sides here. As a mother I would want my wishes for my children to be respected, what ever they were.

But the reality of life with I knew my MIL would be more lax with the children when they stayed with her. So I just let it go and the children adjusted. They knew they could secretly raid the biscuit tin (Nan knew but turned a blind eye!) and they or she would tell me what had gone on anyway!
Our rules as parents were more strict, but the children followed them anyway.
I thought it was a nice wee 'holiday' for them to break the home rules whilst away. No harm done. Possibly a chance to learn to adjust and be flexible in life.

What I have learned from this is children come to no harm if they understand boundries are different with different people.

What is harmful is devaluing the other persons choices in front of the children.

I think my MIL and I had a good relationship which was definitely enriched because we saw different sides to the childrens personalities, and respected each others point of view.
I think on reflection she encouraged and supported me in subtle ways, which helped us all along the way so much.
I owe her a debt of gratitude, and my children had a very close relationship with her I'm happy to say.
Unfortunately not so with my own mother, but that's another story!

If Nan doesn’t trump mum as you call it where is mum then? Seems to me mum wants everything but she can’t without help from Nan . That means mum needs Nan and Nan gives up time for mum so why does mum have problem with Nan who helps mum? Nan’s help mums to cope with life but are not appreciated for it in some cases. This needs to change.

I'm not surprised there is some conflict because it does seem that you are undermining your DIL's parenting in some ways, if only small.
For instance, you say GS is only allowed a small amount of peanut butter in his sandwich - but that if your DIL is not peering over your shoulder you would give him half the jar.
This does not respect the mother's wishes and your GS probably realises this already.
As for the pens, just a cheerful 'we'll tidy them up, won't we GS' and a smile may be a good way of dealing with it.

A small thing but if this is indicative of the relationship between you, your DIL and your GS then that is asking for trouble. You say she is jealous of you - she may just feel guilty that she can't spend as much time with her little boy and has to rely on you to care for him.

Besides that, you put your son in a very difficult position if you complain to him about his wife.
If you have a fragile relationship with her that could make things far worse.

I hope you can establish an easier relationship with her and remember - this is her child and she and your son have their own ideas about how they want him brought up. As grandmothers we have to respect that even if we don't always agree with their methods.

Sandym

Nan doesn't trump Mum. Mum's rules take priority. If OP isn't comfortable with Mum's rules, she can decide she's no longer willing to provide child care. Those are her choices. This whole "I'M caring for him so what I say goes" is likely going to come back to bite her.

Dil gets Nan to do the job so she can save more money for her own needs. That’s what’s happening. It’s not her responsibility as everyone knows. She needs to be respected for helping her son and dil. Everyone out there please teach your daughters to accept their mils role as a Nan grandmother the rest doesn’t matter only what encourages happiness for the grandchild matters

“but if I am looking after him I'm in charge and if she gives me a list of dos and donts - as my dil did when the gs was a baby - I wheel off and sing - as I used to -
"Its just us - hooray!"
- the more you post, the more I feel your DIL may have reason to dislike you.
I would always respect my daughter’s preferences for raising her own children, they are her everything and it is a big act of trust to leave them with others. Yes, I raised her and her sister to be happy, healthy adults, but evidence-based best practice for infant care has changed since then, such as sleeping position and bedclothes and weaning. Also my daughter has to deal with her children all the time, not just for a few hours, so she (and dp) call the shots on behaviour/diet/routine. Finally, they are the parents, I am not. I had my turn, now it is theirs.
A change of roof is not a good reason to change rules. You seem positively gleeful about ignoring your grandson’s mother’s wishes. As you give putting half a jar of peanut butter on his sandwich as an example of grandma’s rules, it’s obviously not a case of her having daft or dangerous preferences.
Your dislike and contempt of her drips from your posts, I wonder if you manage to keep it out of your interactions with your grandson, or if you can’t resist the odd “Good job mummy’s not here!” comments that sets you both up as fun, naughty conspirators and her as the meany party-pooper.
That kind of undermining and politicking can be very confusing and damaging to children; your grandson loves you and he loves his mummy.
Don’t provide the care if you don’t like it, they can pay for professional care. You don’t have to tolerate your DIL, grandson gets professional care, DIL can relax knowing professional childcare providers will follow her [non-ridiculous] preferences. They will be a good few quid poorer but that’s just tough.

School finishes at approx 3pm.
Daughter in law stops work at 5pm.
By the time you have returned with GS it's past 3pm.
We are discussing such a short period of time.

I do understand the all consuming cloud that brings natural behaviour to a halt. I have a family member who can affect others in that way.

I do think you can cope for such short periods. You aren't used to DIL being around and no, it's not the same. However GS is still happily spending time with you.

By the way, I hope you are offered a lift home especially in this weather.

Put him in a pushchair and take him home to your house

Did you not read the bit that said that the GS is at school Grossmama? I can't imagine a school age child willingly sitting in a pushchair, can you?

Are you being paid to look after your grandson? If not it’s really bad for your dil to treat you like this . Even in a work situation it wouldn’t be allowed for anyone to treat you in any bad way it’s called bullying in work! Don’t forget you’re doing your dil and son the favour it’s not your responsibility to look after your grandson it’s theirs. I think these young mums want it all but the truth is they have to use someone to have it all so the least she should do is treat you with respect. I hope things improve for you soon and you sound like a grand Nan !

Tooyoungtobeagrandma
She sound horrendous. Having to wait outside the house. Having a long list of dos and donts - someone once told me (smile and nod - on this post!) and then wheel the gc off and do your own thing.

For me this is crucial and right. Children learn pretty quick (if left in company of others) that everyone is different and has different methods or are funny or serious etc. What a fabulous life lesson!

I'm so glad someone told me this as I can totally be myself with my gs and he loves that. Children soon latch on to fakery and it can lead to questionable behaviour in the child!

Just do your own thing once you flee her straightjacket.

Which leads me on to why the dil hanging around 'working from home' un-nerves me so much! I can't be myself. If I just put a thin spreading of peanut butter in gs's sandwich just because she's glancing over my shoulder my gs would wonder what was going on as I usually give him half the jar. That's how I'd make my own sandwich.

Your dil sounds extreme - I feel for you and am sue you're a fab gm - don't stop looking after them whatever you do - its worth it every time.

I also learned the hard way when mine stopped me seeing the gc - the lesson was to acknowledge she's the mother and in charge if you're all together (God help us) but if I am looking after him I'm in charge and if she gives me a list of dos and donts - as my dil did when the gs was a baby - I wheel off and sing - as I used to -
"Its just us - hooray!"

Put him in a pushchair and take him home to your house. Your son can collect him after work.

I’m glad your recent experience was positive. I suspect having the opportunity to vent here and feel vindicated changed your posture toward her which led to better results.

I’m concerned that there seems to be an alliance forming with your son-plus-you versus your DIL. That’s very unfair to her and will led nowhere positive. You (and he) do not need to play doormat to her every whim, but he should take his concerns to her privately and make sure she feels supported. His refusal to engage in this conflict allowed it to escalate.

I agree with Coconut yet have misgivings - see my first post - because it sounds as if you may be very sensitive and inclined to take anything she says as a criticism. She may not be bullying you as I suspected at first. You may be too sensitive. While working at home she way need to be there till 5 to take phone calls. She may also be in a "business like" frame of mind while working and sound more brusque and short than she actually is.
Have you asked her about the way she speaks to you, explaining, kindly, how she comes across?"

showergelfresh. None of us can actually know what is best here. Maybe some suggestions might sound good and you could try them.

I suspect you cannot change the DIL. You have a hard choice. Accept that she is like that but you will manage to block her out and continue to see your DGS, or realise that her criticism is too much for you and she is getting you down and you cannot cope with it so you have to keep away from her which will mean not seeing your DGS so much.
What she is doing is bullying you. If you were an employee - a Nanny for example, you would have grounds for "constructive dismissal" or something like that anyway. Her bullying is forcing you to have to give up your time with your DGS, which could easily be the job of a paid child-minder. Someone who is a professional child carer would not tolerate her interference and remarks. Just because you are a kind relative doing her a favour does not mean you have to be abused either. But my experience tells me that you won't be able to change her. I worked with a most aggressive, rude, chip-on-shoulder bigoted woman once. She was there before I although I was by far the more highly qualified. That may have been her problem. She created a horrible atmosphere before she entered the room! She would be sucking her teeth, puffing out air noisily, doing anything to show annoyance, exasperation, dislike, disapproval and so on. My shoulder and neck muscles were so tight after doing a work stint with her I think they might have buckled up my head and face! Everyone hated it but no one could do anything about it. I was there as part of my career experience and I moved on as fast as I could.
I'm sorry. It's hard. Perhaps it's time she appreciated the child-care fees you are saving her! You do not have to put up with this. But only you can decide what to do.
Good luck

Showergelfresh I an in a similar situation so know exactly how you feel. My dil practically lived with us for 2 years before my ds and her moved into own home as she didn't get on with her father. We were invited round for meals/parties/a cuppa and a chat etc until they got engaged! Once engaged she turned into bride zila and wr were personal non grata to the point my oh and I considered not going to the wedding. Now they have a child it is worse. My ds asked if we would do childcare one day a week while she tried out work. At first we were not allowed to leave their house with him and had instructions as long as your arm. Now we can take Dgc out and to our house but must have him back by a certain time and have to wait outside the house. My ds is stuck in the middle and she had told some terrible lies so we have now gone nc with her. She had been horrible to our other ac and wants nc with them so slowly my ds is being cut off from family as no one wants to be near her. We keep looking after gc as we know we possibly would not get much time with them if we did not. My ds and I have discussed the situation and because I am not willing to be treated and spoken about so badly have decided that he will take time to call/visit us with/out gc but no dil. When we visited after gc were born every time we went near we were told not to touch/move/make a noise it became very uncomfortable. I don't know what to suggest other than you carry on ad you are, you spend more time outdoors as weather improves or you stop having him when she's at home. I had a great relationship with my Mil and my mum with my oh it's sad that our dil had turned into this Kardashian wannabee telling lies and, for now, getting her own way. I do hope my son sees the light before he runs out of people and money. Sound resentful after 6 years of it yes I am

I am very fortunate in that I am not so easily offended and also I tend to ask how something was meant rather than to assume and take offence. If my DiL had made the comments about the pens I would have asked her afterwards if she wants us to always keep tidy whilst playing as we always tidy away at the end.
The cutting of sandwiches does not even remotely register as a critisism in me but I would have asked if that is what she would like me to do. It shows respect for her.

Another strategy I have if I feel offended is I imagine if my own daughter had said the same thing. How would I feel.
Maybe the problem are not her comments or mooching about but an accumulated amount of hostility, where everything is taken negatively and her sheer presence upsets you. Very toxic. My advice is be the first to smile and make a nice remark and then leave it to her to respond in whatever shape or form. At least you can tell yourself that you are not the catalyst of her behaviour.

I would expect working from home has some flexibility. Therefore I think that dil is quite selfish not to look after her ds when this is the case, and catch up with her work later.
To leave op having to make a 90 min round trip, when she is at home is really inconsiderate of dil, especially when op is doing them a massive favour (and saving them a lot of money) by helping out with her dgs.
Op does however come over as quite obnoxious in the way she speaks about dil, to the extent that dil must know how she feels about her, with all the negativity.

Sounds good Showergel whatever the reason.?Something to build on perhaps.

Fingers crossed for you.

I just love one tip which is smile and nod. I thought maybe adding a 'hmmmmm' if she's not looking directly at me.

In my previous post I meant - next time she's at home I will have all your strategies up my sleeve and that I realise all the difficulties are not yet over - or maybe they are - but that's is not so likely.

A heartfelt thank you for all the wonderful suggestions and empathy from you all!

One or two not so supportive but those I could skim and forget after the first couple of lines.

I'm so glad I posted my dilemma. Its just fantastic to know I am not the only one and that so many of you have had the same experience.

Your tips on how to deal with it have given me such confidence. Thank you for that.
I wish I'd posted before now but its never too late is it?

I picked my gs up today and she was at work - not home. When she arrived back at 5.30 her whole attitude was different - from the beginning I have always left the minute she returns and the gs knows this - I'm not holding my breath but I feel much better.

I am sure she must have sensed my newfound knowledge and confidence gained from this post and your fantastic support that she may have thought her behaviour left much to be desired.

Honest - she was definately 'different' tonight.

Maybe she was just in a good mood but I like to think not because I've never seen her quite so 'normally friendly'.

Perhaps DS told her to sort herself out as he was sick of the fiascos?

When I mentioned all this briefly to him last week he did say I'd done 'nothing wrong'.

Next time she's at home I have strategies up my sleeve now so I know its not yet over...

Confidence will win (or maybe another wise woman told her how lucky she is and to back off) Or...after yesterday's debacle the gs said something - eg I really like my grandma looking after me after school on her own.

@ showergelfresh 'Shall I suggest I bring him back to my house on the days she is working from home?

You have answered your own Q I think.

It will give her time 'to work' then she can collect him when she finishes at 5. You would be best at your home so you don't disturb her while your having lots of loud activities etc !

or creep around her in her house not enjoying it -

Could you do a day less its the quality off the time spent with your grand child that matters
Why do you have to accept this behaviour
Nah I dont buy all this again ...bad behaviour all round and your son has not set a good example.
Im not saying you dont have any blame but i personally would not allow myself to be treated in this way can you not find other things to fill your days ..over realiant on your grand child company ..I sincerely hope not

Its my remit to be in charge for those hours and the gs doesn't know what he's supposed to do when she interferes followed by a disguised comment.
That rings a warning bell.
I have an acquaintance who cares for her grandchild, and resented the child's father, who could do nothing right, saying anything to the child when she was there:" it's on my watch, and I am responsible". She has maintained this attitude for seven years, and achieved her aim; the relationship has broken down, mother is on her own, and even more dependent on Grandma.
Is this what you want?
You have three options:
Stop childcare
Take the child to your own home
Stay as you are and get over your dislike.

Paddyann I don't think the "precious sons" career is the issue here. I certainly dont think a mans career is more important. I am amazed at the attitude of some ( not all!) adult children nowadays to their parents.