Sleeping issues

I used to just murmur 'lovely, well done, night night'! I can smile about it now!

The one waking you up to tell you that he'd 'been' made me smile Jalima.

maybe the little girl just couldn't find a bottle in the dark.
Some of mine wanted a nightlight, one did not; just a dim light.
We used to leave a landing light on anyway because sometimes they'd want to go to the loo in the night (and one always woke me to tell me that he'd 'been'!).

Sorry! And you too Kisathecat!

What a brilliant Mum you are mumofmadboys, I hope that your post reassures the OP.

I breast fed all 5 of our kids. The youngest breast fed till his 3rd birthday. One gave up himself at 14 months and the other 3 were all about 2 ish. We played musical beds for ages. Our bed would fill up over the night with kids and when it was too full we would go and sleep in one of their beds. We would sleep in several beds in the course of the night. Mad days but happy contented kids .

Jalima1108 ebf usually means more than 2 years. For me, it wasn’t as exhausting as the other way seemed to be and what you call being a slave is what I call being a mum I just have a different attitude to it and didn’t mind at all. But I know for some mums it’s a big intrusion and they do mind so they do it their way and that is fine also.

Maybe, just agree with them that is is very hard but that it won't last for ever!

Thank you everyone.
Buffybee, your point about what they actually want is thought provoking. Maybe they just need a moan at the moment, and I'm doing the classic 'lets fix it' rather than simply allowing them to vent.
The venting is one thing, their actions are practically the opposite. I honestly don't know.
I think the best way forward is to keep listening, and if asked, offer some straightforward thoughts, ideas.
Becoming a Grandma is a steep learning curve

Jalima, why didn't she leave a bottle or sippy cup, well, I don't know, the child is now in her late 30s and probably can't remember and my friend is dead so I can't ask her. But I'd imagine it was so it didn't leak out and wet the bed, and TBH if I wake up in the night I need the light on so I can find things, maybe the little girl just couldn't find a bottle in the dark. All I was saying is that it's not true that if you just give water you stop the child waking up and it's not always hunger why children wake.
I think that you can't equate breastfeeding for comfort and comfort eating, it is very different, breastfeeding is a relationship, not just food, it's not a substitute for a good relationship which often comfort eating is. Babes who wean naturally don't often need dummies or suck their thumb, some children I've known have sucked their thumb for years, and a friend's daughter was still taking dummies to bed when she was 11+. Lots of them so she could always find one. Dummies are just breast substitutes after all.
Why is it strange that children like to sleep with their parents, many adults prefer sleeping with a partner to solo sleeping. As I said it doesn't need to be all or nothing, there are lots of ways parents manage night times

I have had a word with my daughter, who is an Health Visitor and asked her what she would advise.
She first asked, do the parents want the child to be in her own room and are they ready to engage with making this happen. The first thing to be clear about is are the parents ready.
OK! YES, they probably are shattered and sleeping in separate beds but unless they want to change this situation then just leave them to it.
They may be possibly moaning about what hard work it is just for a sympathetic ear and not be quite ready to change the circumstances just yet.
She also said that the new thinking is that children if they want to and the parents can deal with it can be allowed to co-sleep and there is basically nothing wrong with the baby suckling during the night, she is most likely not feeding and is treating the breast as a pacifier.
She said that it probably wasn't ideal but also from today's thinking, there was nothing wrong with baby in the bed, at 22months or older.
If the parents want to change it, then fine but otherwise it's ok until they and baby are ready.
There is no data that any harm will come to the child's development, it will not necessarily make her clingy as she gets older, in fact she will most probably be a very secure child because of what her Mum and Dad have done.
All the above from my daughter, not me, by the way.

This little girl isn’t the problem her parents are, she’s doing what they have taught her to do, nothing will change unless they put a stop to it.
It’s not proving easier to give in as they are already up half the night with her, a few weeks of standing firm refusing any feeds and establishing a good night time routine will soon turn things around. She’s a toddler not a baby.
I’ve just put my 15 month old grandaughter to bed and will not get a peep until the morning, she was breast fed too but not beyond 6 months old when mummy realised she was only using her for comfort half the night! she went in her own room and was encouraged to self settle, she sleeps brilliantly either at home, here or at her other grandparents because we all follow the same routine.
It’s hard work I know but if they want things to change then they have to instigate it, they are the ones in charge after all!

I will just say that I don't think that MIL is the person to have The Conversation, although, if asked for her opinion, could ask how DS and DIL feel about the situation and if they have any ideas about the best way forward. Encouragement, not opinions.

Secondly I have come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what happens to babies providing they are loved and cared for.
I agree - and happy and content.
However, mother and father need to be fit and able to provide a nurturing environment and these parents sound as if they are struggling to meet the demands of the child at the expense of their own health.

One of mine never liked a bottle and always spat it out.
One of mine did that - straight on to a cup with, perhaps two feeds a day by 14 months, which she then decided she didn't want any longer.
They are all different but this case does seem rather extreme.

Wow all these posters who attribute 22 month old babies with such complicated and machiavellian plans. Firstly to say anything I'd need to know more about the baby's day time activities. Is she with mum all day? Is she in nursery? How many times is she feeding during the day? Is there a possibility that she is demanding during the night the comfort she isn't getting during the day? Secondly I have come to the conclusion that it really doesn't matter what happens to babies providing they are loved and cared for. The babies I knew when I was younger who slept with their parents and the babies who slept in their own cots have all grown into sensible, kind and useful people.
I was never comfortable with leaving a baby to cry and my children often climbed into our bed even when they were bigger, that was how I liked it.
As far as helping goes why not offer a baby sitting time while they both go for a sleep during the day? And do it regularly.
They could try expressed milk in a bottle but it's possibly too late. One of mine never liked a bottle and always spat it out.
I wonder how they are weaning? my DIL did baby-led weaning offering the baby a varied selection of foods which she ate with her fingers. Frightened the life out of me (a baby with a piece of cucumber!!!) but it seemed to work and GD always ate well.

DIL mum and I had a couple of heart to hearts. We are worried about the same things and had very similar approaches to our children.
Isn't it lovely when you get on well with DIL's Mum!
But you are right, she can say things that you may not dare.

I don't have her overnight, yet. I would and will when GD parents are comfortable with it. DIL and her Mum are close, but Mum lives hundreds of miles away, and is moving to Europe shortly. DIL Mum is lovely, very down to earth, and has said things I wouldn't dare to...Mum/daughter privilege
I get on very well with her also. I'm reluctant to ring her with my concerns as I think it would be better to just be honest with DS and DIL. They stayed with us in autumn, and DIL mum and I had a couple of heart to hearts. We are worried about the same things and had very similar approaches to our children.
Just had GDD for afternoon to give DS and DIL a break. She is such a little tonic, so funny!

Izabella

Madgran77 spoken like a trooper. ?

Well ...the OP was asking for advice on her worries about her tired and struggling son and daughter, tiredness exacerbated by her grandaughter wanting feeds 5 times a night. In response she has had some wise advice linked to her original OP and acknowledging her evident awareness of the sensitivity of this situation etc etc!! She has also unfortunately had "speeches" on why BF is best, sleeping in the parents room to avoid sudden infant death, various details about what others did or are doing when breast feeding, comments on her sons sleeping arrangements and impact on the parents relationship ...and various other things!!! How do any of those help her with HER issue/worry which is whether she can help the parents sensitively and in a caring way, not because she wants to interfere etc etc etc but because she cares and because her life experiences might be relevant in helping them! (and PLEASE no one bother to now tell me that what the parents do is their business...etc etc !!)
OP I hope some of the wisdom expressed by some posters is helpful to you

I agree with BlueBelle and Luluaugust. OP’s concerns were how stressed and exhausted the parents are. My own opinion is generally that parents should do whatever works for them but it would appear they haven’t found it yet.

Someone asked about whether dil’s mother had any concerns about her daughter and I didn’t notice if OP had responded. Daughter might accept advice from own mother, particularly if it concerned her health.

If mum still wants to breastfeed then I would have thought, if the child was being fed a balanced diet, a feed before bed at about 7pm should see her through the night and ensure a good night's sleep for all.

What happens on the nights that you look after her, Claire? Do you have to feed her expressed milk several times in the night or does she sleep through?

This little one is definitely in charge with the parents pandering to her habits.

Well I ve just been called ridiculous for saying that but I totally agree luluaugust this is a little girl twisting everyone round her little finger not a baby in need of feeding
I wonder how the parents will deal with the terrible twos or threes

At 22 months I would think of this child as a toddler not a baby, which is how she is being treated. I know the general consensus is to say as little as possible about anything but both mother and child are going to be malnourished at this rate.

I never had any shillyshallying around at bedtime.
No drinks, no getting up, no calling out.