Neglect

I am so sorry for the situation with your GC,my sisters children were taken off her by SS in the 1970's she and her husband were alcoholics.My parents wanted to have the children but SS though with the healyh problems my parents had it would be too much for them to take 3 children one approaching her teens.They were put in a home and when my sister "appeared" to have cleaned up her act she got them back.Sadly it was all show and she soon reverted to her habit and took her abusive husband back.Sometimes I think it would have been better for her kids to have been fostered as they had a hell of a life and she nor her husband would take any advice (interference) from anyone.Perhaps you could contact SS and explain your previous relationship with the children and ask to have access to them for their sakes as well as yours .I hope it works out for you but if they are safe and well that needs to be the priority .Good luck with it and take good care of yourself

Oh Boy1 .....what a sad situation. I can't give any advice, but I just want to send you good wishes and a nice big hug xx

If the children were taken for neglect reasons and there are many different forms that can go hand in hand to what you’ve mentioned.
But the thing that’s actually made me want to comment is this - you have said that the children have gone to stay with people who are not part of the family, so if you’ve always been a large part of your children’s lives why were you not asked? And generally if children are removed from a family home that means social services had to prove to a court why they wanted to remove the kids so SS should be able to sit down and have a meeting with them esp if you are concerned about the people that currently have them and tell SS you want to speak to a manger and make a formal complaint raised if you are not taken seriously as that usually works and if you want to offer to have the children as their Nannie then you would trump the people who have them now as you are the Nannie on the maternal side which they would prefer to place children with and am I right in remembering you said your DD was adopted by you? Which if that’s the case then that’s even more in your favour as you’ve completed SS stringent checks, interviews etc to have been able to adopt her so would show SS you are the best family member to do the job as well as being around the children regularly.
You’re not going to lose anything for just asking for a meeting and seeing what their plans are as if they apply to a judge in court for the kids to be placed fully into the care process if your D hasn’t shown any signs of sorting herself out to even want the kids back so without you taking the kids in then in all honesty they could be split up and end up in any part of the uk and different parts to the other child and you so seeing them or having updates will become increasingly difficult and nigh on impossible for you so please try and get 2/3/4 steps ahead of any and all plans SS have for these kids for the future.

Xxxxx

I would just like to add that “ adoptive grandparents “ are treated the same as blood relatives by the courts when it is in the child’s best interests to maintain contact.

Boyl, I’m concerned by your distinction of “adopted” daughter. She’s your child or she isn’t at this stage. Do you refer to her being adopted often?

If so, I can start to understand why she’d block you from her children.

I don’t say this to be unkind, but words matter, and by adding “adopted”, you are labeling her as “other”. If my parent labeled me as such I wouldn’t see them, nor would my children. It’s damaging to be treated as other/less than.

Now, hopefully that’s not the case

I worked as a Senior Nurse for Child Protection until I retired so I’m aware of policies and procedures. If Social Care ( previously Social Services) are involved then they have a duty to speak to you, more so if you want to help. You should be part of the assessment process to identify which relatives would be more suitable for caring for the children. If there are any meetings with SC you should be informed and invited in most cases. Contact SC and tell them you want to be part of your grandchildren’s lives and if you want contact, which you clearly do then you shove assessed. You can also speak to a solicitor, preferably one who specialises in child care. Good luck.

Oh, Boyl, I'm so sorry that AD (adopted daughter) and her partner seem to be preventing you from involvement w/ your grands. It's good that the people taking care of them are, apparently, open to your being in their lives. Are you able to contact your GC at all? Cards? Letters? Phone calls? FaceTime? Skype? If so, that may have to be "enough" for now.

Any reason you're aware of why AD and partner would interfere w/ your relationship w/ the GC? Any prior issues between you that could be impacting their behavior? More importantly, is there any issue between you that you could begin to fix?

I'm still not clear on if social services are currently involved. If so, do they know that you feel AD and partner are keeping you from seeing the GC? Does social services allow them that power?

Sorry for so many questions, but I'm just trying to get a clearer picture.

Hugs!

Thank you for your advice. The fact that my daughter is adopted is probably not relevant only in that her early life experiences were very difficult. She is my daughter. We do have some contact with the people caring for the children. They do want us to be involved but it is now apparent it is my daughter and her partner who are stopping this. Although they say not. It is a tradegy that two beautiful boys are being rejected by their parents who do not seem to care at all.

I cannot offer any real advice Boy1, but hat does strike me is it's almost like these children (your relatives) weren't born to your daughter.

It is very sad.

You'd think that given their dreadful start in life, a blood relative who only shows concern and wants to add love to their little lives would be included in their upbringing.

I know official arrangements for them are likely to be far more complicated than my scenario, for many reasons, but it does seem unfair that you seem to be excluded. What an awful situation for you.

I hope the little ones are in a happy place now and have warm and compassionate people looking after their welfare. Perhaps thinking in those terms might offer a very tiny bit of consolation?

David, If a child is legally adopted, then legally there is no difference between “blood” children and “adopted” children. The fact that you can make a distinction is quite frankly apalling.

David0205 - your comment that "because its your adopted daughter with no blood ties your grandparent rights are zero" is simply wrong.
The Children Act 1989 is specific, that the child has the right to a family life. That includes ongoing contact with adults who have been significant in the child's life. There are numerous situations in statutory children cases, where the Court has ordered that grandparents, or indeed significant adults who have what you'd call "no blood link" to the child have ongoing contact in some form with the children. Children have been placed with non blood relatives who have been significant in their lives, for example step parents or even non relatives who have been actively involved in their lives.

My sympathy, because it is your adopted daughter with no blood ties your grandparent rights are zero. Social services may or may not know of the situation but are unlikely to give you any details or updates.

My feeling is if you have any access at all hang onto that whatever the circumstances, you could easily loose even that.

I'm so sorry you're facing this, Boyl. It must be so hard to see DD behave like this. And I know you're missing and worried about your GC. Hugs!

I agree with Iam64. While I don't have personal experience with SS, I know people who have, and Iv never heard of SS just sending kids to a relative with no follow-up and w/o considering GPs who have had a major role in the children's lives. I'm guessing that the parents were expected to meet certain requirements and just sent the kids away instead. I would definitely contact SS b/c they may not even know where the kids are and may want to look into it.

My post says I don't understand how this could be a formal kinship arrangement, approved by the local authority sw department, without the maternal grandparents being part of any assessment process. The OP suggests they were actively involved in caring for their grandchildren so Id have expected any sw assessment to reflect that.
It sounds as though its possible there has been an informal arrangement between the parents and paternal grandparents, or that concerns about the maternal grandparents means their contact is at a contact centre.

iam64 I’m not understanding your post. Isn’t the paternal family a kinship relationship? If a social worker has found a solution, why would they keep looking for more options?

I don’t understand how this is kinship arrangement without the maternal grandparents having been part of the assessment process.
It sounds as though the sw dept has left it to the family to take over care if the children. That’s happening more often than it should as a result of local authorities avoiding care proceedings because of court costs and potential payments to kinship caters.
Write to the director asking what’s happened. Get legal advice

In my experience SS aren’t fit for purpose.

I haven’t so far because it is a kinship arrangement they are not interested at all. Not their problem it seems. So what happens down the road if this fails I have no idea and at that stage they won’t know us because of no contact.

I wish you luck getting any sense out of the SS team !!

Contact social services yourself and express your concerns it sounds a casual arrangement at best. See if you can arrange to see the children on a separate regular basis if. I would think if it is a kinship arrangement because of the family links you would have some rights to the same thing. Keep contacting until you get some information ask to see the team leader not the SW on duty

They are in a kinship arrangement so no formal oversight by SS. The kinship carer passed the arrangements for us to see the children to her daughter on seeing the boys twice they were accompanied by 4 adults and no real opportunity to actually engage too much with the boys. They say they have involved SS but I doubt it. They now refer to themselves as the grandparents the actual parents do not se the children and there is a tissue of lies everywhere I turn. I have texted now for 6 weeks to give the boys their presents and no response. I have been down a blind alley with no progress.

If the children are under a child protection order ( CPO ) you will have to seek permission from SS to see the children, usually in a non-family environment and it's by appointment.
I doubt the SS will give out much information, if any as there aren't the same rights for grandparents as parents.

If they're under the care of SS you'd need to write to them to determine what's happening. SS may be able to tell you how they're doing. At the very least, they would be able to determine if it would be possible for you to visit them.

I have no experience with the foster system so I'm not sure how all of that works.

Do you know if Social Services are involved? Are they in the care of these relatives at the instigation of SS?
Could you write to the SS, explaining the situation and ask for an update on the children's wellbeing?

It must be so upsetting and you must feel very anxious about their welfare, but, if Social Services are involved (and they possibly are as your DD and her partner were reported to them for neglecting the children), they will be ensuring that they are cared for.

Oh dear Boy1 what a very sad tale I haven’t ever been in this situation so have no real advice but there are many grans on here who will have.
It is good that you have managed to see them albeit out of the home they are living in do you feel they are being better looked after now? apDo they seem happy
I do hope things can get better for them and you too I can imagine how frightening it is for you