Parent Ignores Children

Phew, Shoppingame! You have a lot on your plate! More than many of us grands could handle! Kudos to you for doing it at all!

As for discipline, I'm another one who feels that if the children are left in your care so often, you have the right to manage their behavior. In fact, IMO, you need to for your sake (you sanity) and theirs (their safety, etc.) It is said that kids think the world is going to be like their parents. But if a GP is the one caring for them a large chunk of the time (as you are), then some of their ideas about the world are going to come from the GP. So I believe the GP needs to educate them to appropriate behavior as much as the parents do. I wouldn't say this about, say, a GP who sees the GC once a week or the like. But this is a matter of 5 days a week for long hours.

Besides, a GP can't just stand there and let her GC hurt each other, etc., can she? I've watched my DGC for long hours, now and then. And if I just let them run wild all day and hit each other, etc. DD (their mum) would be furious!

Granted, I agree that a 1-yr-old mostly needs to be distracted or removed from a situation, perhaps w/ the word "No" being said, but not always. Distraction can also be good for a 3-yr-old, IMO. But if she's about to hit her brother, IMO, you need to pick her up and move her away before she can. And maybe separate them for a while if you have a way to do that.

I, too, am wondering where the father is and whether or not he gives the kids any attention. Also, I agree that it would be a good idea for you to spend as much time w/ them as you can when they are at your house, reading stories, playing games, etc. But I can see where that might be exhausting. Is it possible the parents can afford nursery for the 3 for a few days a week or a few hours a day, as others have suggested? IMO, that would be a big help.

Children seem to do well with good routines. They know what to expect at certain times of the day and that gives them confidence.
You are brave taking on childcare of two little ones for such long periods of time. I would not have the energy.
Both my daughter and daughter in law made me laugh the last time they were both here together. they both said that if either of their children (each have a boy and a girl) started getting rude or rebellious at home they would say to them "Whatever would Granny think if she heard you talking like that?" It seems to be enough to subdue them. They are all very well behaved when they come to my house and I am a doting granny. We just make it clear that some things are not suitable for discussing at the dinner table e.g. toilet humour, apart from that there are no specific rules.

I agree with Notanan2 that positivity is the best way . Discipline sounds rather a harsh word for little ones.

Children respond to the last thing they hear. So if you say for example ‘Don’t hit your brother ‘ they will only hear the words ‘hit your brother’. It’s better to say ‘ Be nice’.

We don’t often say the word ‘ No ‘ . We tell them what we want instead.

And to avoid confrontation , expectation is the key eg , ‘ we are going to do this when Peppa finishes . ‘ . Then move away and expect them to follow.

We look after twins of 2 3/4 for three days a week and they are really very good. I have much more patience now than I had when my own kids were small. And maybe I have learnt a bit too .

Saggi, I agree with the tone of your post and I wonder if you would agree with me it's better whenever possible, rather than confront the child, to remove the cause of trouble, or remove the child from the cause of the trouble rather than have a confrontation.

A three year old is not morally developed enough for moral reasoning, and confrontations are often unnecessary.

I think you need to sit down with your daughter and have a serious discussion about her behaviour and how it is impacting the children. I think it is fantastic you are so involved in your grandchildrens lives but it is your daughter who should be raising them not you. How about their father is he involved at all?
If they have no boundaries at home then it is going to be a struggle for you and they may settle down better in a nursery environment where all the children are given the same rules.

My two elder grandchildren were like this at those ages. There's only 21 months between them and they were awful. Completely ruined a holiday to Florida for my 60th. However when they went to nursery/school they seemed to improve. So there is hope! I know that doesn't help you much for now but try not to say "Do not do hit the dog" for example as apparently small children only hear the last part of the sentence so they do the thing they're not supposed to do. Try ignoring the hitting and say " Let's give the dog a nice pat" instead. Worth a try. Hope things improve for you. Our two gc are 10 & 8 now and are well behaved most of the time. Good luck!

If they (well the 3 year old mainly ) is kept busy and has your attention which she obviously needs she won’t have time to be hitting the baby Unfortunately you can’t be having a normal day with 2 tinies around you can’t be doing housework cooking etc you need to give them 100% and it’s way too much fortune person for the whole week
Where’s the father?
Is the childcare needed because the mum works?
Why is the 3 year old not in nursery?
Other posters are right punishment is not the answer concentrate on doing things with them to keep them busy but it’s too much for one person you will end up frazzled and worn out and do no service to those little girls

A 1 yr old hitting and 3 yr old pushing the 1 yr old is normal behaviour for those ages.

You don’t need to do this. They are the responsibility of their parents. Where is the father? Is the mother your daughter, or DIL? You’re practically a full time parent, so to not be able to discipline them is absurd. I wouldn’t normally advocate disciplining from the GP, but you’ve become their parent. It’s no wonder they do what they like, there’s no structure in their lives.

"Do not hit" is a pointless thing to say at that age! You are keeping the focus on the behaviour you DONT want.

You need to show the 3 year old what it is you want them to do instead.

The 1 yr old just remove and distract.

You should not be trying things like time out on children that young. It teaches them nothing positive.

I have always found that saying no firmly then distracting a toddler works. I presume we are talking about toddlers, here?

I thought spanking was illegal in the UK? My own feeling is that it should never be used in this sort of case.

If you are looking after the children 5 days a week, it should be possible to accustom them to your rules.

I suggest that if the one child hits the other when told not to, that you divide the room up and keep them away from each other for five minutes. Make it clear that they cannot be together if they hit each other. Let them back together and repeat the process if the hitting continues.

Children need love, kindness and firm rules. Cajoling and bribing is certainly not the way to go.

Well done for looking after them 5 days a week. I really admire you for taking the task on but I think it is seriously unfair to expect you to do so. We look after our DGC one day a week and it exhausts us. Let's be honest, as grandparents we are OLDER. We all did our parenting when we were younger, fitter and had more energy. I notice when I realise that I can't get from playing with them on the floor to seeing what they are up to when they shoot up and off. When did getting off the floor become so hard? As for giving them 100% of your time, that is fine if it is only the odd day or two, but not all day for 5 days! Meals still need preparing etc. I wish we knew more about the babies mum and dad. What are they up to all this time? I think the mum is taking you for a ride and using you as the easy option rather than looking at other solutions. Some free nursery care is available. If she can afford it why not use a childminder for a couple of days a week. What about you? Is it just you or do you have an OH. Do you have transport, or a sturdy pushchair and buggy board? There are probably mums and toddlers groups near you or story times at a local library. Do they have naps so you can put your feet up? Are there other local grans in the same situation that you could pair up with and go to each other's homes so the babies would have someone else to play with? You need to seriously find other options or you will exhaust yourself. Our GC should be a delight, not become a chore. Good luck

You are absolutely right to be concerned about your grandchildren's behaviour; because they are well cared for physically the emotional neglect, because that is what it is, is not immediately apparent.
If you have them five days a week, they have to live according to your rules, and allowing hitting clearly isn't one of them. As other posters have said; constant, purposeful attention and firm boundaries are needed to give them security. It sounds as though they spend more time with you than their mother (father?) and you have to be able to have the authority to stabilise them. Their behaviour is not right for young children.
It depends how much time, and energy, you are prepared to devote to them; I doubt if their mother will back you up, and it won't be easy, but for their sake, it will be worth it.

@Shoppingamc, it would be helpful to know in what way you feel the childrens mother mostly ignores them? Does it seem like apathy or is it more along the lines of not drawing attention to every misdemeanour. The children are still very young and sometimes its a case of picking your battles! I completely agree with Saggi and others that it is absolutely your role to manage their behaviour when you are playing such a significant role in their upbringing. And of course the rules need to be consistent between you and their parents. Well done for providing so much care and support and for caring enough to want to do it well

I'm not really a fan of punishment for small children to be honest. They tend to act on impulse when they are so young they won't understand punishment. Even for older children I think natural consequences of their actions is better than a random punishment, so eg if they are fighting over a toy the toy goes away. If they are hitting seperate them etc. But actually I think these children need lots of attention and the 3 yeat old needs help to understand and mange their emotions . There are children's books that might help I think one is called kind hands.
Good luck it doesn't sound like an easy situation.

Now that we have more information, I think it's way too much for you to have them all week. I agree that the older one should be in nursery asap!

When they behave at a level you feel is better than their norm praise them. Eg is they put a toy away then tell them how clever/good/helpful they have been. If they ever stop and listen again praise them. I do believe young children do respond to being good things rather than having their faults highlighted. If they ignore you in their behaviour you too have to ignore unless of course dangerous. When there is no reaction it will become a non event for them. Do wish you well, must be heartbreaking to know they are ignored.

Nonesense spoken by poster who says ‘grandparents shouldn’t discipline’...if grannie is having them for five days, then she certainly should be dishing out discipline . My daughter has worked as child psychologist since her first was born and went back to her job That’s twelve years I’ve given , of different sorts of childcare. First full time in my home then picking up and taking to nursery , playgroups, and now of course morning and after school care, which includes cooking their dinner. I have loved every minute doing it and still do...but if she hadn’t given me ‘carte blanche’ as regards discipline , I wouldn’t have agreed to it! She has always told the kids that when I look after them , then I am in ‘loco-parentis.’ This has always worked for us because we are both on the same page when it comes to what behaviour needs to be corrected, and what can be ‘let go’. As she says ‘choose your battles’. I still have some ‘ battles’ to be got over with my 7 year old granddaughter but together me and my daughter , and her father are dealing with it ...together.... and that is the point . The grannie and mum needs to be on the same page as far as discipline is concerned....these two tots need to know that no sort of violence toward anybody ( especially animals) is acceptable and they need to learn it pretty quick ,before a bigger and older child gives them a sharp shock lesson when they go to big-school.

Is their mother depressed, where is the father there’s no mention of him. You say they crave attention, so don’t they have any from their parents? It’s very hard work looking after young children it must be hard work for you looking after them for five days! Is it possible for the older child to go to nursery few days a week, it would be good for her and be easier for you to have the younger one on her own for while

Children from about 2 will test the boundaries.
When you tell a child, not to hit their sibling and they then do, they are just testing to see what will happen next.
If it happens again , perhaps try saying quietly that that was not nice of them to do that - how would they like it if they were hit ?
Either that or try to distract them before the action happens! Take them away and find them something that is more fun to do! Get them to help you build a ower or play with bricks or look at a book. Poor child wants attention of any kind - just a couple of minutes one on one may make the difference. It may not be your job to discipline but once they see that grandma's house is a place that they have fun and that you talk to them, they may well change their behaviour when at your house, but it will take patience .

I have 2 grandchildren, 5 and 3. After their mother's maternity leave I have always had one of them for one day a week, never both together unless for very short periods. Now that the oldest is at school I also have her for breakfast and a walk to school twice a week.
My daughter and I discussed the arrangements and I only do what I feel comfortable with. Discipline rarely arises with one child at a time ! I believe that if I wasn't a single granny it would have been possible to look after 2 at a time, but only with a hands on partner !

Focus 100% attention on them and they will not have time to be *naughty (*By that do you mean normal kids behaviour?) Having been in this situation I can tell you that the craving for attention MUST be catered for to ofset the emotional abuse the mother is treating them to - Emotional abuse is as bad as physical abuse because it changes brain chemistry before the age of 3yrs, and affects the person for the rest of their lives. Cherish these poor little mites and you may be the positive influence they desperately need in their lives. At most you should go down to their level, explain, and follow up with Supernanny type boundaries. Consistency and unconditional love are key here.

Yes, I think something else needs to be sorted out here, a nursery place for the older one and perhaps some other arrangements a couple of days a week for the baby.
You sound exhausted and at the end of your tether OP, and that is not good for you or the children.

Disciplining is not the answer, nor are the methods you have tried. You need to be full of energy to cope with two little ones like this. I'm not sure how old you are but it all sounds too much.
Can you talk to the mother and see what nursery places are available either near you or near the parents?

We have our grandchildren 2 days a week but there is no way either of us would want to do anymore,we have our own life ,we have brought up four children of our own & now need some time for ourselves.I think it’s selfish & unreasonable that your daughter/daughter in law expect you to provide childcare 5 days a week.When we do look after them it’s our rules in our house & they are all well behaved anyway.

The Philippa Perry book "The book that we wish our parents had read.............." might be helpful. And I agree that they need MORE attention not punishment. If not from a parent then that is where grandparents can help.