Do you envy your daughter?

5 people with "new" jobs in a lab that once housed 40 scientists doesnt = more opportunities for young people

Most of your list is scenarios like that.

Where every manager once had their own PA/secretary, 20 of them now share a "virtual assistant".
A new job title but NOT new opportunities.

I don’t think envy is the correct word for me but proud really that my daughter is so independent and wishes to experience life and her choices rather than when I was her age being pushed to get married and have children etc etc. I’ve learnt from that and appreciates I don’t think that. I’m proud of her positive self talk she has to herself.

That was only a small list notanan, I said that, but it’s not true to say that young people don’t have optimism or hope, or that the only alternatives they have are to deliveroo drivers or Amazon warehouse workers. I work in the NHS - the range of jobs nowadays compared to years ago is immense and will continue to be so with developments in genomics, AI and so on. My son is studying engineering which has an IT focus - that simply didn’t exist. The workplace changes for every generation.

Youre wrong again. The genomics boom offered oportunities to that have already passed. Again a whole lab of people reduced to a hand held device after the developments during/since ebola.

It is much much much harder to get into genomics now. People used to be able to cut their teeth assisting in smaller labs which have now been centalised.

This are opportunities again that benefited the current middle aged and not the upcoming generation.

Genomics is going the way blood gas analysis went: now used by anyone no big kit or scientists involved at all.

The developments were very exciting and catapulted medical science. But in the process made science jobs redundant. Go visit your biochemistry lab if you work in the NHS. There are no scientists in there any more. And there wont even be labs soon as biochemistry analysis can be done at the bedside (and is in some units)

The last 20yrs was a great time to be in medical science. But it is NOT a great time to be starting out as a scientist!

We’ll agree to differ. I can only tell you what my experiences are of working in the NHS for 26 years and seeing the developments in other specialities and seeing the kind of opportunities there are for my DC. If you take a look at university courses now and compare them to the 80s when I was at university there have been huge changes. It’s just the way of the world, always has been.

I don't envy my daughters because they both have to go out to work and I was a happy SAHM. I also had much better accommodation when my children were my grandchildren's age. I also had a sensible husband, who pulled his weight around the home, even though he went out to work and I didn't.

You cited genomics
So tell me how a young person today can work their way up?
Used to be able to assist and work up that way, getting funding for post grad study.
Now post docs are "assisting" after self funding their study AND they now have to be in a financial position to be able to move to the "hubs" as there are no longer smaller local labs. Post docs are doing the work post grads used to do.

Contracts are shorter. You cant even sideline into lecturing for security any more as thats not secure.

How does that represent more opportunity not less?

It was your example so explain?

Agreed!

You can rep for the genomics kits bit thats not exactly what kids who want to do science dream of.
And the rep jobs at any rate tend to go to people closer to retirement with lots of experience and contacts behind them.

No, I don’t envy my daughter.
She works hard in a job she doesn’t like much, in a hotel. She has a husband and three teenage children, she does the majority of the housework, cooking, shopping etc. My lovely GC are typical teenagers, unwilling to do anything much round the house to help out. SIL also works hard at his job, but happy to leave bulk of other stuff to DD.
She lives in Australia, has never had the benefit of us being able to help out, babysit, collect the GC from school, as we have done for our DS and DIL who live locally. Her in laws have never been very supportive or hands on grandparents.
We chat weekly, but not the same as face to face contact, and being able to have a good heart to heart as I did with my own mum.
So no, I don’t envy her, and wish I could do more to help her.

Read my post again notanan - I said the range of jobs.

You’re focusing on genomics and labs and haven’t acknowledged anything else I mentioned so I’m going to leave you on your own to agree with yourself that things are dreadful and all hope has gone. I really cba saying any more.

This sounded such an odd question to me, Ealdemodor, then I paused to think, why do I find it an odd question?

I have three daughters, all married, all mothers, all well educated and with lovely husbands. I certainly don't envy them at all. I am extremely proud of them!! But I try not to go on about it. We don't live in each other's pockets and have a kind of radar or sixth sense about when we need each other. I have had some stress at times worrying about one in particular in the past but she has grown into such a loving and hard working mother and is kind to me, so now I feel very lucky.

I don't envy anyone, to be honest. Even though I am almost house-bound and in pain living in sub standard conditions, I am content to get by so long as I have my dogs with me! Somehow envying another person has always seemed a waste of time to me. I remember when we discussed jealousy in school A level English. I could not see the point of it then. Unless someone has stolen the very thing you hold most dear, I cannot imagine the point of envying another. Other people may seem rich and to have a great time but you can never tell if they are happy inside.

I am just so glad my daughters are happy and coping. That things are going well enough for them not to have money problems and that their children are healthy and happy is all I ask. I give thanks to the Lord for this. There are so many people with so many terrible circumstances to endure in this world. I wish I could be useful for them.

I’m very proud of my three daughters but no, I do not envy them. In fact I do not envy anyone at all.

You’re focusing on genomics and labs and haven’t acknowledged anything else I mentioned

No I'm not I addressed your general points incl virtual PAs etc.
Youre making vague statements you wont then discuss or elaborate on..

A range of job titles does not = more jobs or job oportunities, in any field.

Genomics was your example.

Yes.... she has a career ..... I had a job! I wanted a career but my husband would kick off every time I tried to improve my educational chances
or it interfered with me making his sandwiches for his pack-up. It was always about him .... my daughters husband was quite similar.... she’s just left him and is working twice as hard to pay her mortgage and manage her kids every other week( she child shares with him, week on, week off)... but she’s never looked better and is off the tranquillisers. Yes , I envy her... who wouldn’t she’s free!!

Like I said, you’re on your own

Apologies for the thread hijack OP, I know it’s gone off topic. I’ll leave now.

...... have to say my daughter loves her job.... it helps of course!

No I don’t envy my daughter , I’m incredibly proud of her n her achievements though, like many others a working mum, and worked her way up the ladder, I’m not envious of my sons either just a very proud mum of all my children, their lives are much busier than mine ever was, I was a stay at home mum for a few years when mine were small, I definately couldn’t cope with the pressures that they are all under with their jobs and families,

No I certainly don't. My poor daughter & her husband desperately wanted children but were unable to. 3 rounds of IVF tore them apart, they grew further & further from each other and ending up divorcing after 10 years together and 7 years of marriage. It was a terrible time for everyone concerned. We were so lucky to have our 2 children more or less when we wanted to and are now coming up for 39 years of marriage. It's not always been smooth sailing but we are so lucky compared to DD.

I must say I am a bit miffed by the internal dialogue about the lack of jobs on genomics and somehow can't relate this to the OP's question as to whether we are envious of our daughters.

Of course jobs change all the time. Doing Chemistry A level now is more like doing the first year of a degree in Chemistry in my day. What you study at university does not always indicate what your career will be. Only one of my three followed her second degree into a career. The other two, not wanting to miss seeing their children grow up, began several little businesses from home. One has now refined this into two main businesses, one of which was a beloved hobby anyway. My other at-home daughter was asked to apply for a job in a hospital after doing some voluntary work there. She had qualified, by attending courses of her own volition and now is quite highly qualified in the field.

There are many courses and evening classes that young (and old!) people can do if they are motivated enough. My children achieved this, including the one who followed her degree into her career. She wanted to gain a specialised higher qualification so studied while working and while having a baby and then took more exams. She now does a lot of research as well as the clinical work that one normally associates with her profession.

I am so proud of my daughters for finding things to do that they love and turning them into jobs from which they may earn. I just carried on working through my marriage. Not from choice, but necessity. At the age of 40 I did another degree during which my husband committed suicide. I changed career, using this degree. I think it influenced my youngest who loved talking about research. I ought to be jealous of my daughters, I suppose. I'm not at all. I'm so glad they don't have the kind of life I had! So glad!

PS I smiled when you said you are in your 50s! My eldest will be 50 soon. I'm in my 70s.

I meant to say SirChenjin I appreciate your apology for going off topic. You were, though, simply trying politely to respond. My comment above isn't critical. I always mean just what I say, so "miffed" means "sort of confused with a smile". Plus I related it in general terms to envying or not the job situation for our offsprings' generation.

I would guess that envying our AC's generation in general is not likely to be a common feeling among us here on GN. It has been said many times how much harder life is now: Two incomes needed for a mortgage, jobs very hard to find and immensely competitive. I think notanan2 pointed out the invidious time post graduates have, trying to get on a PhD course or do research. Clinical Psychologists for example, are asked to work without being paid, even though they have incurred a huge debt from doing their first degree. Many posts need a First Class degree, but if you are working at a job as well as doing your degree then it reduces your chances of a First. I looked at some of the ppl doing the PhD in my subject and realised they were not the best when undergraduates. They were not the ones who could discuss or connect ideas or even the ones who in the exam were writing at a hundred miles an hour. Getting up the greasy pole depends on money and often extra tuition at £80+ an hour nowadays. There is no denying it. How can we envy that? Btw, I know Doctors who have qualified that way.

Other jobs are very poorly paid with wages not enough to run a home. While the father is slaving away at a dull and thankless job with torturous targets, everyone else is seeming to "have it all" in terms of all the latest appliances plus big holidays so expectations are high and children's demands even higher. This is a tough world.

It was simpler for me when my children were growing up even though I struggled hard for money all the time and once took off my trainers so my daughter could wear them to a "jeans and trainers" party. Each generation has its own challenges. But today, imho, things are harder.

Im not saying that progression is impossible, but people starting out now have to work harder for longer to get what we had.

My DDs are both harder working and brighter than me, which is just as well. Even so, some routes to professions are now simply financially impossible unless you have weath beind you. Im not talking just about uni fees but also about unpaid internships, having to go overseas for some jobs that used to be local, and short temporary contacts that letting agents and lenders dont like. This means that some able and keen young people have to reconsider their ambitions.