Feel it is so sad

At six, I think the little girl was old enough to learn that there is a time and a place for everything, and a library is not the place for conversations with her grandad. It does children no harm to know that the world doesn't revolve around them and that they should consider other people.

I know that libraries have changed a lot since the days when they were places for people to read, study and have 'quiet time', away from noise and chatter, but all the same, not everyone wants to be subjected to other people's conversations all the time.

I agree with Lovelycuppa about 'conspicuous parents' who talk at their children all the time, and make it clear to all around that they are stimulating and engaging with their children. I find them very irritating, and feel a bit sorry for their children, who never seem to get time to stop and think, or to take the world at their own pace.

Forward or backward facing buggies are a matter of preference, really. I can understand wanting to make eye contact with a child, but at the same time, it prevents them from looking around at the world, rather than always at the adult in charge.

An inquisitive toddler is likely to get bored, and whereas it is sad for us as adults when they grow away from us, it is inevitable, and a natural part of their development. I don't see it as 'sad' in itself.

We’re all different but I always chose back facing prams so that I could see my babies and talk to them, they could still see the world going by out the side. Electronics weren’t an issue when mine were young but of course it’s an issue now with the 5 GC. However, like all their parents, I time them on their devices so I still make them talk to me ! These times are far too precious and too short to miss out on.

I have my great grandson (who is just 2) every Friday, and within the day he plays his own games on my iPad. He usually sits beside me and we play them together. I don’t see any harm in electronics for children if they are used correctly

I love and cherish the time spent with DGC, and the activities and outings we engage in. These times are backed up with numerous photographs. They are allowed a limited time ' on screen ', both with me, and in their own homes. Interestingly, last week, while on a coastal walk with them, one DGS, in his own words, said that when they stayed with the other GP's, they were ' left to their own devices '. One of the others added that ' we hardly see them '. It seems that on some levels, despite enjoying being on their devices, they do also like attention from the adults around.

My daughter needed me to look after my GC but I had been quite poorly (nothing contagious). They had just had a week's holiday where they had been swimming and active every day so it worked well all round when I just let them play on their computers for most of the day!

It is sad. There are times when half an hour in front of the tv is a blessing for a busy mother, however it would be good if adults could do their texting whilst the children are at school and limit iPhone use to emergencies. It’s getting worse.

I always think it sad and quite strange that some adults don't bother to chat with the children they've got with them.

My GC are 5 1/2 and 8, and they never stop talking. We chat about all sorts of things. I used to talk to my own sons (in their 30s now) all the time, right from them being babies.

LizBethAnn55 I know you gave two examples of what you saw as non communication and we cannot know what the rest of the day was for those children.

I totally agree that the use of mobile phones, tablets, and small laptops for children of young ages is certainly creating much less one to one communication with the child. I see small children everywhere and they have a mobile phone in their hands to play games on it and mum chats to her friends.

One example of my own was one of my grand-children and after school she will take her school clothes off get a snack then lie on her bed with the tablet. At times she is so engrossed in it she will be talking to it and will either not hear you speaking to her or just chooses to ignore you, I witnessed this many times and I took this up with her mother, her reply "I am driven mad by the kids and the tablets keep them quiet" and they leave me alone.
Whatever suggestions I made to offer her my help/get the children to the park or library were met with No they can't be bothered even the 2 year old toddler was engrossed in scrolling down on the mobile phone, surprisingly that is probably why he was showing no signs of any speech development. All very sad if you ask me.

I first realised just how addictive screens could be when I allowed my granddaughter to press the screen to bring up a photo of whatever she requested (and I had typed) e.g. cow, elephant etc. My intention was to help her to widen her vocabulary.
After about half an hour the rain had stopped and I shut down the tablet so that we could go out. Absolute mayhem ensued. She fought me for the tablet and screamed blue murder when I wouldn’t start it up again. To be honest it frightened the living daylights out of me.
She was just 1 year old and I had never seen her demonstrate that type of behaviour before.
I don’t just think it sad to see children glued to screens OP. After that experience I feel it is downright dangerous!

I don’t buy the excuse that parents/GP’s are having ‘downtime’ or a difficult day. When you’re in a cafe or on a bus and three quarters of the children are being ignored by parents, I find it hard to believe that all those parents are too stressed to talk to their little ones. Parents have always been under stress, it comes with the territory, but taking it out on children is wrong.

I’m not sure forward facing buggies has much to do with it. There are photos of me in a FF pushchair in the 1950’s and it hasn’t stopped me from talking!

I am astounded to read such judgemental attitudes from so many Grans who often go on to boast about their "superior" acts of parenting.
It was a huge relief to read Shelmiss, RomyP and janeainsworth. What right have we to jump conclusions about other people's lives from just seeing one small part on one particular day?
It is hardly surprising that we older people are sometimes regarded as stuck in the mud and out of touch. A lot of children, my sight-impaired grandson for example, use their iPad to read books. If children grow up forbidden to use the computer or iPad or phone (which is a kind of small iPad) they will be badly lacking in the skills and knowledge of the technology that is fundamental to how we live.
Using technology does not prevent playing interactive games like those so promoted board games. My two eldest Grandsons are nearly the same age. One is an only child. They adore each other and play such games constantly together. Last time I spoke to my eldest daughter she said her son was playing such a game with his cousin on the iPad. I was delighted. They were both at their own homes about 177 miles apart.

The idea that board games are superior because they encourage interaction is another Luddite view. Many games on computers need interaction. You can play chess on the computer. At the family get-together over New Year, the children were playing a game together on the computer that involved enormous interaction, fun, emotion, craziness and real friendship.

I too came across those overwhelming pushy mothers who kept up a non-stop mind improvement course for their children. I taught in the early part of my career. These children learn to tune out the constant buzz of an adult's voice which is trying to take over their mind and not let them think for themselves. I have also read with amusement many Tweets from people who have suffered train journeys in a carriage with a pushy parent who is cheerfully "improving" his/her child's experience with a continuous chatter about the scenery and important facts pertaining thereupon. I have experienced this with my eldest daughter and teenage son recently on a train journey. Her reaction was, "That poor kid!" and teenage grandson said, "Parents like that should be shot."

To all who have said how can you judge those people who read in the Library while their grandchild does the same, or who gave the small child a computer game on the phone at a restaurant dinner table, I salute you and thank you on behalf of all exhausted parents trying to do their best. In particular I was so pleased to hear how the phone game helped the Autistic child. That is such a great leap of progress for Autistic children! Thank you for telling us.

As for blaming forward facing push chairs! What a mad thing to say! The whole point of the pushchair facing the direction of travel is that the child can see the view! What better way to learn about their environment? I certainly managed to talk to all mine while they were facing forward.

Namsnanny- I'm so sorry that you are still in pain. These situations are such a heart-wrenching torment. I fully understand how you must feel seeing what might be a grandparent with a grandchild and the two of them not communicating. I hope and pray that your situation changes for the better. Sending lots of love, Elle x ?

I agree with you Lovelycuppa, we can sometimes over talk a situation so a child doesn’t get the freedom to think. I reflected as I read bedtime stories to my grandchildren that none were ever read to me, in the 1950’s maybe it wasn’t the trend, but I felt loved and as I slept in a top bunk of a bunk bed we had great fun playing games at bedtime

Virtually no interaction with children any more since the birth of mobile phones. They've been nothing but a curse in so many ways causing many problems. A truly sad society.

Totally agree. It's such a shame, and goodness knows how this is building up trouble mentally for the future of these children.
At least in the first scenario you mentioned, grandad was with his grandchild in an environment which actively encourages reading real books, not electronic ones, and they were sharing that quiet reading time together. Maybe dialogue wasn't needed at that time, just a shared experience.

One of the saddest sights for me that stayed with me was at section for tropical fish in a nearby garden centre, 5 year old full of awe and wonder looking at some of the amazing fish, repeatedly to his mum "mum look at these fish", if he said it once he said it about 10 times, sadly to fall on deaf ears whilst mum was scrolling through phone. His frustration in wanting her to look up and share that moment with him was palpable, just a few seconds of engagement, but sadly she couldn't give him that

A couple of days ago I saw a young woman with a child of about 3 waiting in a bus shelter. She was scrolling on her phone, and suddenly the child ran forward and nearly went under a car. The woman, thankfully, grabbed the child, and then swore at the driver.

I agree that children will go on their phones, tablets or computers if left to their own devices, but when my grandchildren come to stay we do knitting, sewing (they love making clothes for Barbie) enjoy playing board games and going out walking our dog (they have a cat at home). Their parents do limit them to time on the internet & we stick to their rules whilst their here.

I agree entirely, OP. Something similar happened to me on a long train journey. Early in the journey the table opposite mine ( the usual 4 seats around a table, but the train was not very full) there was a father and his son who might have been 5 or 6. the father had brought nothing for his son to read or play with and after a while gave the boy his phone, which didn't occupy him for long. The child was then berated for wriggling, being difficult etc. I was quite shocked to gather from the little conversation there was that the father was a teacher!
A little while later a young woman with a little girl of a similar age came and sat opposite me, she had some books and a drawing pad and the little girl read to her mother and then discussed the characters in the book, she went on to draw pictures for a new story about them - the looked a much happier pair and the child behaved perfectly.

I agree it’s very important to interact with children, but how do you know what happened before and after these situations, how can you possibly judge, I don’t find that sad at all, grandparent coming into library and didn’t speak and left after 20 mins, he sat and read his paper.She looked at books, wow, so very sad

I think there has to be a balance and as others have said it isn't good to be constantly bombarding children with meaningful facts and conversations, they need time to acquire their own experiences and knowledge.
As a child I remember just letting the world go by around me with little interaction, as a teenager I didn't really care about explanations on the environment or society, as a university student I couldn't always appreciate discussions about (boring) literature or nature, and as a teacher I often felt I was just going through the paces imparting facts just to tick off learning skills.
It is only now in my final stage that I realise I was actually processing all these things along the way and those experiences have actually made me the person I am. Children on gadgets these days are only doing the same, that's just the way it is.

I think it is the children's own choice to spend hours on their gadgets. I pick my 3 younger GC ( 5,8 & 10)up from school on Fridays. I chatter with them all the way home & they tell me what they have been doing all week etc. It's lovely,
Then when we get home they have a drink & a biscuit & all sit in a row on their sofa glued to their i pads etc. & I can't get a word out of them!!
As Mum is home & sometimes Dad by then too I can't insist they don't play with their tablets & I am chatting to their parents but it is a pity. To be fair the eldest is soon getting ready to go to Scouts & they have to have dinner before then but I think they really love playing on their gadgets & if I'm honest I too have a couple of iPads at home & I also play games on them - which I really enjoy to pass the time.
DH has always got his face glued to his phone or tablet so it's not just the younger generation.

My eldest daughter loived racing around like a maniac and chattered none-stop, My youngest daughter loved playing games on our old Amstrad and did so a lot when I was busy. Now in their mid 30's, they both have university degrees (the youngest has more letters after her name than in it!), They have good jobs, own their own homes and we have good mum/daughter relationships. I have no qualms therefore when my eldest daughter lets my grandchildren play games on her phone in a restaurant to stop them annoying other diners as I know that the next day they will be jumping in muddy puddles like Peppa Pig, meeting other children at soft-play or petting animals at a local farm and having fun. It is all a matter of balance and these days computers have a part to play.

I do agree with much of what you say, but then some quiet time is always good, and maybe the grandfather is of an era when it wasn’t done to talk except in a whisper in libraries.

What I once found really sad when working at my local library, was when a mother forcibly dragged her young son of maybe 7 away - he was protesting and very upset - from the non-fiction book he’d been utterly engrossed in, maybe creepy crawlies or dinosaurs, ‘...because you’ve got to read some proper books!’ By which she meant fiction.

I really felt like saying, ‘Leave him alone! If he’s enjoying ANY book, what on earth does it matter what it is?’
Especially when boys are so often less likely than girls to want to read for pleasure at all.

@paddyanne I have been saying this about prams etc facing the 'wrong' way for years. I talked and sang to both my children facing me in their fabulous maroon Fleur de Lyse Silver Cross pram (courtesy of my mum) one in the pram and one on the seat in front. I think those 'children as objects for display' were the start of large scale alienation under this definition: "Humans are only connected to each other as buyers and sellers of commodities..." Leonard Rizada on Prezi

One of the best times I loved was when I was walking my son to and from school - on the way there we could stop and watch out for squirrels and birds and find the hole in one fence that had been made for the hedgehogs. On the way back he was telling me about what he had done at school and about his friends and I could also catch up with other mums and form friendships.
From when he was very young - what a treat to take him on a bus and look at what we could see and as he got older, to go upstairs if we had a double decker!
I just feel sorry for any relatives ,be they parents or grandparents that miss out on the time to do things like this. Children don't necessarily need to be taken somewhere everyday, they need just to be able to look and wonder and talk!