I feel sorry for my little Grandson

I have spare clothes and garden shoes for grandchildren who are 'not allowed' to get messy - or get dirt on their shoes (bloody ridiculous). It seems that their appearance is far more important, to their parents, than their happiness.

I know when they'll be collected, so a quick shower, tidy their hair - and back in the nice clothes just half an hour before. Once, I was 'told off' as one still had some paint under their fingernails!

I hope all the bits of water bombs were disposed of as even I get annoyed picking them up, so not something I'd buy.

I grew up with an OCD tidy-freak mother, but I'm not like that. We'd be put in the garden to eat a biscuit as she just couldn't bear the mess, however temporary!

Poor little boy, there's too much control by his parents, they are not letting him express or be himself. It will all backfire on them, but what damage is it doing to their son? Have him at yours, let him be himself with you. It's a form of emotional abuse, thank goodness he has you in his life.

My daughters 3 children come to mine regularly and have a craft box, paints and play doh here , and also do baking. They know they can always do these things at grannys. I also look after 'their' rabbit, chicken and fish and encourage them to help care for them when they're here

Maybe just keep an eye on the mess you are making with Gs? If you are eating and making a crummy mess, SIL is hoovering as a passive aggressive hint to you to keep your crumbs on a plate...

I don't think it's a real issue unless he's battered and abused. They probably loathe a dirty house and keep it immaculate by staying on top of it. Sometimes it just takes a few things and the house goes into chaos. I'd let it go in this case...

If he's taking the blame, step in and say "oh, it was me! I'll get to that right away" and tidy it yourself. Everyone has different standards. I wouldnt let an animal OR a person wearing shoes enter my home....but I wouldn't berate my child for making a mess, either. That's for sure.

I think it's not the show-home that bothers you...It's feeling sorry for a grandchild whose parents seem to prioritise cleaning over their son. If you really really feel this is the case, have a gentle word with them when he's not around: "oh, he's only a boy once. Please don't get upset with him. We were just having fun. I'm sorry. Could I take him to my house to play next time?. But not having a pet is far FAR from abuse.

Mine grew up with a mother who really wasn’t good at cleaning. Me! They’ve ended up with rather houseproud partners! Guess it skips generations...

I had a drawer full of clothes to fit my GS, eBay and charity shop finds, and I changed him out of the lovely clothes he was sent in and at going home time I put him back into them. I felt I was fighting a losing battle once he could move about (I had him from 8 months) as he was so reluctant to touch sand or soil or paint or to play with soapsuds or play dough or anything sticky but I persevered.
Life at home is a bit more relaxed now that a good few years have passed but children are still told to be careful not to touch the walls and there are no finger marks on the windows. Their other grandmother is OCD and her mother before her. I never said anything. I knew I couldn’t change the situation.

DIL and mum came round to our house to visit before my DS’s wedding. I didn’t know about their OCD at the time and dread to think what they thought about the happy muddle I allow at ours.

The sad part of all this is that this little boy will rebel at some stage in his life and his parents could lose him forever. What's a bit of mess in the great scheme of things?

I loved making stuff with my kids and doing the same with my grandkids, the house is "clean underneath " as my mum would say about disarray and clutter.

I can't help thinking that there's an element of emotional abuse going on too.

They could do with spending a week with my Grand-daughter during lambing It is bad enough at other times but Lambing is special. They live on a working farm, Husband, Wife, 4 children, eldest 7 youngest 3, 2 Dogs, fish, cat, all indoors, alas rabbit has passed. Outdoors 3 ponies.1 horse, another dog, pet lambs and pet calves.

In lambing the family expands indoors to cope with orphan or sickly lambs, each one is adopted by one or the other children and spends its first few weeks in the house fed and pampered (in pens some of the time.)

Chaotic it maybe, mucky and dirty, very often, but so full of love. Bless 'em all.

My gd is the same, but she can get messy as she likes at my house. The sad thing is she gets upset if she gets her clothes dirty. I don’t care, our house is clean but normal mess.

can't you have him at your house. I have 4 grandchildren all grown up now. All messy play and fun was done at my home! plastic sheet on the floor for paint boxes brushes and water jars for brushes..... when i had a new washing machine they made a 'house' out of the box, cut out windows and painted flowers on the outside ect ect......took them to the park to 'run off there steam weekends...must point out, not all four at once, two then two more later age wise. good times remembered

Poor little lad! Let him enjoy lots of untidy, messy play when he's with you, you'll both have so much fun. Baking, painting, making things with clay, sticking and pasting is all good messy play. And of course jumping in puddles on a wet day! I wouldn't worry too much about his clothes, dirt washes out! But you could keep a few spare clothes or a pinny for him. Could you perhaps keep a pet at your house for him to interact with - rabbits, guinea pig, hamster, cat, white rats (they're very intelligent and friendly)?

I had a friend like your DIL. Her house was clinically clean, every surface was wiped with bleach twice a day you could smell it when you walked through the door! You would never have thought she had any children, there was never a toy in sight, nor a child. Her kids got every stomach bug or ailment that was going round and were off school more than they were there. Mine on the other hand were as tough as old boots brought up in a home with 2 big dogs and a Mum who'd rather play with them than do housework. Yes they caught measles, mumps and chickenpox but they'd had their vaccinations and it was no big deal. Now grown with their own families they are equally relaxed with their own children.

One of my DILs is a bit obsessive about hygiene but she's gradually relaxing a bit. I think she's realising keeping two under two's from getting grubby is nigh on impossible. But her over-concern when the children fall/bump/scratch or graze themselves (however minor) worries me a bit. She makes such a big fuss about it
- antiseptic, plasters, constantly checking them, and of course they respond accordingly: lots of tears and clinging to mum. I always treated everyday tumbles and 'hurts' with a hug or cuddle and a 'There, all better now" and off they went to carry on playing. Perhaps I was too casual (but not uncaring), but they survived!

Enjoy your time with your grandson, in time his parents may come to realise their standards are a bit OTT.

but they scatter toys all over the and my tidy house is a wreck now
I am wondering just how a one year old and three year old can wreck a house by strewing toys around?

Mine used to stick stickers on their bedside cabinets, all scribbled on walls at one time or another which they helped to clean off and they didn't do it again.
Get them to help you tidy them up into the toy box. One of our DGC used to tidy up from a very early age, admittedly they did all get thrown into the box but that was part of the fun. She's a very tidy child, unlike younger sibling!

Your house, your rules - it’s not as if you are fostering insurrection. What happens at Gran’s house stays at Grans’ house?

I may be completely wrong here and I have no expertise (just having listened a storyline in The Archers and to Woman’s Hour!) but to me this seems like over-controlling behaviour. Does oppression figure large in your daughter’s marriage? If you have any suspicions of this, tread very carefully and get proper advice.

Let him play with messy and wet things at your place, once lockdown is over.

Cut a hole for his head and each arm in a big plastic bin sack, so he can wear it as an overall.

That way his clothes won't get wet or dirty, so his parents don't give him a row when he gets back home.

Just take him to your house or outdoors all the time. I used to let my little GS get up to sort of things my DD wouldn't have approved of. Climbing trees, messing about in the river, throwing stones into the sea... she used to say to me that he was always dirty when I returned him. I think dirt usually equates to FUN. Now he's a teenager and independent and loves the outdoors.

Like other people have said I would make sure he has lots of fun at your house, could he have a rabbit or goldfish over yours.
His parents are not making precious childhood memories for him but at least he can have them with you.

I agree with Tangerine! Have fun with him!

I would have to say something, I think.
No doubt I would probably be told to mind my own business, but the seed would hopefully have been planted.

It’s kind of the other way round for us. My granddaughters 1&3 live in a lovely house with huge gardens and are allowed to wreck the place. Every surface is scribbled on, stickers all over, toys broken, books ripped up and I fear the girls have little respect for anything. When they are at mine I only let them eat in the kitchen but they scatter toys all over the and my tidy house is a wreck now. My advice would be buy some plastic table covering, messy play on it and make sure you’ve cleaned up before the parents get home. xx
We have been living together (8 of us) during lock down for childcare reasons because I’m the only adult out of 5 of us who doesn’t work and now living between both our houses.

I had a friend that made herself so much extra work constantly cleaning - going for coffee at her house was a bit like going to Hyacinth Bucket's house - dropped a crumb and she was there with the brush and dustpan. I walked into her house one day,I didn't realise that I had a leaf on the sole of my shoe - even though I took my shoes off, inside the door, she wiped them with a damp cloth and bleach before handing them back when I left!
She did improve as time went by - said that she watched how I behaved with my son and learnt that it was ok to allow them to get messy for a bit and they wouldn't come to any harm!
Either your SiL is suffering from OCD or this is the first time he has lived in a home that contains things he has paid for! Either way there is little that you can do.
No harm in a child not having a pet - many children don't for many reasons and they don't come to any harm, just make up for it as adults and run an animal sanctuary or have a houseful of hairy dogs and run an alpaca farm! Relax - can't expect anybody, blood relation or otherwise , to have the same way of living as you do!

Poor little boy, I do feel sorry for him. But you can't really interfere without the risk of losing him. Good ideas above about having fun in your house when he visits.
I do hope DD and SIL relax eventually.

Poor Lad.
As others have said, let him be messy at your house and if his parents say anything about it well, I would shut them down promptly with a "my house my rules" response!

How sad is this ? My mother had many a falling-out with my ex SiL about this behaviour. One child in the family who was scared to breathe !
Absolutely disgusting. Anyway the child began having petite-mal's in his earlier life then an emergency appendectomy, problems learning at school as he had to return home exactly the same way as he left----not a hair out of place., and it must have worried him all day.

I remember my mum crying and so upset about his upbringing. Both the child and his mother always had sniffles. My brother towed the line for 27 years within a military style operation with everything, that he took off. Worse than a life sentence.

This would be classed as psychological abuse today.
No children's parties in case the other kids were " scruffy " or came from poor homes. Heartbreaking and very wrong.

That borders on abuse to me. Have they recognised they are OTT with cleanliness? Do the adults ever have people in their house and go about hoovering round them when they are eating? Goodness your GS will be living on an edge in case he makes a mess. The pet thing isn't unusual, a lot of people don't want them.