Bad behaviour

I expect the older boy has probably always been quite rough with the younger one but now he is a bit older he gives as good as he gets. Boys often play fight, and sometimes it can be quite rough. You may be finding them a bit of a handful but try to overlook their more challenging behaviours and enjoy all the wonderful aspects to them. Believe me, they grow up so quickly and childhood vanishes. Once they are back into school/nursery routine again that should tire them out a little bit.

My lovely grandson (10) has developed a sort of social anxiety, depression and acrophobia as a result of lock down which we are slowly trying to reverse. With him he is inclined to have tearful out bursts and be less inclined or cheerful about helping around the house or with his little brothers.
We have talked it through, and he says that he has really struggled with not seeing his cousins or aunties, nor any of his friends.He has also missed not having any time to himself (trapped in doors with his two tiny siblings 1 and 3) school and seeing friends used to give him a bit of a break from their high energy play! But they weren’t even going to the child minder either during lock down
My point is that children’s mental health has been effected by lock down children are creatures of routine and generally very sociable both these factors have been eroded by lock down. Give them a chance to regain their equilibrium. My other granddaughters 8,8 and 6 have been the same!

I'm writing from the mum's perspective. You obviously want to be involved with your grand children which is great, I think the value of this is underestimated.
Children have been through a lot recently - and they don't have the ability to see the wider picture and grasp how long it may be at home, without school, without friends. Some may love it, some are really suffering. And they won't be able to express it as missing playing with their friends, and the structure and predictability of school. They express it in the most unloving of ways - what is seen as bad behaviour and fighting etc. Parents, and in my case just me, have been the one stop shop for all social, emotional, educational and feeding/watering needs. It is extremely hard to replicate what they normally get. School reinforces the boundaries that parents encourage at home, their brains are busy and stimulated by the learning and the social interaction. They have a sense of purpose, not these endless aimless days.
Children now need time to adjust back to all this and people need to be patient with them and guide them in the most positive way possible. Yes it's uncomfortable, but imagine being that child and that parent, knowing that your child is becoming more and more disconnected from everything that felt normal and safe, and knowing that you have no options to change it.
The more patient and gentle you are about this, the quicker you will be rewarded with connection and special moments again. Any blame (real or perceived) or tension will only make it harder to reconnect (speaking from experience). Some things that could help - try and see the children separately to get some quality time, read with them, get outside for walks. These are all things that have helped my children. Mine have been much better since starting school again for a few weeks, generally calmer and want to play together again as they have the chance to miss each other.
Anyway, I hope this makes sense. I just think the unseen damage of all this is huge and people expect children to carry on regardless. This is when they need you to be there for them the most.

PS My DH was 3 years younger than his brother and they never got on, to their mother's sorrow.

X post Romola and a similar situation.

Sorry, but I can't help then, Alypoole.

The DGC with whom I have more contact are a bit older and have been much better behaved and nicer to each other since lockdown. Perhaps they realised they only had each other for company as having a friend round is not allowed.
Their parents were both working from home and fairly strict on manners anyway.

Just keep persevering; I hope things get back to normal again soon.

I think it's true that brothers with a 3-year age gap often quarrel and fight. My SiL's mother told me that she used to have to put her 2 boys one each end of the passageway and sit on a chair in the middle to keep them apart. And one always had to sit in the front of the car with her in the back with the other, or all hell would break loose.
Now my DD also has two boys with the 3-year age gap. They do fight, but in a way lockdown has made them dependent on each other and they (mostly) get on okay.

The world has changed dramatically since WWII, at all levels.
The challenges, society, culture, expectations, parenting styles, childcare guidelines, etc., everything.

Alypoole

Hithere I am a retired infant school teacher and have a good understanding of young children’s concentration spans especially little boys. They have a huge garden with trees and streams and we take them to the nearby woods to climb and run and build. However I am also well aware that the 6 year old would benefit from reading his reading book at some point during the day as well as playing with Lego, making and doing, drawing, cooking and generally having a bit of a rough and tumble.

Well said Alypoole.

Hithere I am a retired infant school teacher and have a good understanding of young children’s concentration spans especially little boys. They have a huge garden with trees and streams and we take them to the nearby woods to climb and run and build. However I am also well aware that the 6 year old would benefit from reading his reading book at some point during the day as well as playing with Lego, making and doing, drawing, cooking and generally having a bit of a rough and tumble.

Have children’s rights overtaken discipline? When WW2 broke out, and like many mothers, mine left alone to raise three children (4, 3, 1). She never raised her voice or smacked either my elder brothers or me. She just looked in a certain way and you knew you had gone as far as was permitted - no ifs or buts. Move on 70 years and what a difference. Just before lock-down one experience in a local Building Society, four young children, all in recognisable local private school uniform, ran shouting and screaming while clamouring in and out of the window display. Their mothers waiting in the inevitable queue quite indifferent until one queue member indicated her disapproval. To which the supercilious mother retorted “it is not our fault if everything in here is so slow”. To which she responded: “no, but it will be your fault when one of your children falls through the window”; and added “I suppose its Nannies day off is it”.

cabin fever
Precisely, Lolo81!

Hithere

Terrible twos and even more terrible threes - huge personalities bundled in tiny kids

Oh yes.
The thunderous threes can be even worse.

I expect they are full of energy too, the older one not being at school. Can you take them to a park yet, take a ball, let them run around and use up some of their pent-up energy playing instead of in squabbling.
The 6 year old and 3 year old ae at different stages of development and the 6 year old will be missing friends of his own age group. He'll relate better to them than a little brother who may be annoying.

Ps and Qs need reminders in a calm and pleasant way.

“ It would benefit you immensely if you read a book about child development.“. Not sure that is really necessary !

“I am worried you are putting your bond with the gc first instead of doing what's best for them.” I think that is jumping to conclusions and as ever wanting to blame grandparents/parents.

OP
I think you also have unrealistic expectations how 3 and 6 year old kids are supposed to behave.

What concentration span do you think they should have?
More than 15 minutes doing the same thing is a miracle for them.
At these ages, kids get bored easily and change activities very frequently. It is normal.
Their daycare had intervals of 30 minutes before they changed to another activity and 15 minutes of those 30 minutes were invested on setup and cleanup.

My two daycare age daughters also "bicker". My youngest annoys the oldest to no end. Oldest complains the youngest does not leave her alone and steals her toys but when the youngest is doing her own thing, the oldest misses her sister and there we go to being annoyed again.

The youngest flies off the handle at the most minimal "infraction" - the cup is yellow instead of pink!

They push each other and their moto is "what boundary can I challenge"

It would benefit you immensely if you read a book about child development.

I am side eyeing big time the statement of "not being so close to the 6 year old". I am worried you are putting your bond with the gc first instead of doing what's best for them.

Terrible twos and even more terrible threes - huge personalities bundled in tiny kids

My 2 grandsons used to bicker and fight the whole time. Now they are very nearly 14 and nearly 11 they are getting on so well which is lovely to see. Lockdown has cemented their friendship as far as I can see. I expect its an age thing if younger ones are bickering and uncivilised frankly! I've seen the boys and their mum (my daughter) a couple of times recently, and the boys have been absolutely charming and a joy to be with - suddenly rather mature!
So do not despair those of you with younger grandchildren.

Nannyme: Have you not heard of "terrible two's"? No surprise most mothers do not escape the experience.

I would quietly insist on please and thank you and whatever else used to be the norm, excuse me (if they pass wind or burp) without making an issue of it.

Their bickering and agressive playing, I don't think you can just ignore.

I would sit the two boys down when they come and before this starts and tell them that you don't like to hear them bickering, so will they please stop it.

What sort of things are they bickering about? Can you get either child to tell you why he is cross with his brother?

When a game gets too aggessive, stop them and do something else with them.

Agressive behaviour can be so many things, but obviously they can't be allowed to hit each other or throw things.

I would think these two have just been thrown together too much during the lockdown. At their ages, a gap of 3 years is simply enormous.

I clearly remember how exasperating I found my three year younger sister when I was six.

Could you do something with them, like baking and not leave them to play with each other too much.

Don't involve their parents. In your home, the children should do as you ask them to.

There is a big difference in children between the age of 6 and 3, so can you split them up?
Maybe one of you concentrate on doing 6 yr old things and the other on gentler 3 yr old stuff?
One is still very young and the older one is at school and is now a ‘big boy’.
I’m sure they would appreciate doing different things with you rather than be lumped together as 2 boys.

I am with others here that say lockdown has had an effect on the children. DD, as a single mum, locked down with us and and her 9 year old twins. As the time has gone on we have found them harder to settle to home schooling, harder to encourage to do anything active and more prone to outbursts. DD’s fellow parents are reporting the same phenomenon. It is perfectly understandable; they are not having the same physical activity, mental activity and social interaction that school provides. In addition, my DGC had swimming once a week, two sessions of gym and one of them had football training and a match at the weekend, an an outlet for their energies and social interaction there too. I can assure
you it is not lack of discipline but just the very strange circumstances we are living in.

Same here... my grandson 13 and granddaughter of 8 were oh so close ! Now after three months... they are at each other’s throats all the time ...and my daughter is a children’s counsellor!! Until I pointed out that 13 year old boy and 8 year old girl are not really gonna be on the same page for another 10-15 years! Of course Covid hasn’t helped with all its restrictions , but the age gap added to the gender difference doesn’t help .

I brought up my grandson until he was ten. I've found that with my children (and grandchildren) the following tactic works well. Rather than getting angry, look really sad and disappointed. Say 'The way you're behaving makes me feel so sad. I really wanted us to all be good friends and enjoy ourselves' etc. That hits home!

Nanof3 I can see the instant solution for your situation staring at me out of your post - your DH is short on patience? Let HIM settle them when they start getting out of hand. You might find his approach stops you needing to play peacemaker so often. Kids can be amazingly peaceful when an ogre is in danger of being disturbed

Don’t know if other Grans are in my position, I am sole carer for my GS, who has lived with me for 3 years.
He is 18, diagnosed as high functioning Asperger’s.
I am 81, @ although disabled, usually active, drive & independent, but we have been cooped up since early March, I have not coped well with lockdown, & feel I’ve been very impatient with him,