Advice Appreciated

It doesn't matter how old our kids are, whether they are children, or adults, we still worry about them. The fact that the OP, and her father, has had to support this young family financially, is obviously very concerning, especially now with the prospect of another child coming along.

It's absolutely no one else's choice whether or not they go ahead with the pregnancy, and I personally would never make that suggestion to either of my kids. However, not knowing how bad the circumstances of the the OPs son & DiL are, I can forgive her, perhaps, for telling them that they have choices. They are adults now, and can't be financially reliant on their parents/grandparent forever. Of course, most of us do whatever we can to help our kids, if we have the means to do so, but there has to come a point when they start to fend for themselves, and realize that what they do with their lives isn't someone else's responsibility.

As someone else upthread said, if we'd waited until we could afford to have children, we would've been too old!

I think the best way for the OP to support her son & DiL now, would be to tell them that she's unable to offer extra finances, but to help them find out what financial support is available to them. It's very difficult as a parent to think that our kids are struggling, be there does come a time when they need to stand on their own feet.

Our son and DiL have had some financial difficulties in the past, and we've helped them out wherever we can, but the last advice we gave them was basically that it couldn't go on, and they needed to sort themselves out financially, as they couldn't rely on us every time they had a problem. I'm pleased to say, that they finally seem to have managed it!

What a shocking post to read!

How dare you suggest abortion?

I'm pro-choice, but it's up to the mother, certainly none of your business!

You've helped them, and that's good. It doesn't give you any right to interfere in their lives, though.

I found as a mum myself, and seen it in the grandchildren, once number two comes along, although challenging at first, is easier in the long run. I’ve seen a few parents struggle with just one...as all the focus is on them.
As for suggesting an abortion....I am a Christian, but even when I wasn’t, would never in a million years have wanted this. This is your grandchild. Imagine how they might feel about you in a few years from now, because the pain never goes away.
A few years ago, my friend’s daughter was pregnant with her fourth. Her grandmother told her she shouldn’t have the baby, as she couldn’t afford it. She owed the grandmother money. My husband and I offered to pay the grandmother what she was owed....no strings, to save the little baby. She said she just couldn’t take it from us and went ahead with the termination. She was on the Pill too, and was sterilised afterwards.
She’s not been right since, and must look at her other children, and know what she could have had.
Please don’t go down this route, but sorry if I’ve misunderstood, and this is not what you meant.

When my daughter had the first baby and was out of hospital about two weeks later I had the conversation to her about contraception and told her to see the doctor and get what she needed.
Like the OP my daughter made excuses that the pill did not agree with her and that is how she fell pregnant in the first place. I told her to then get the contraception where it is fitted in the arm or the device they fit internally she complained she did not like the sound of those two.
In most cases the pill is most reliable especially if taken correctly, my daughter told me she forgot to take the pill once or twice when she became pregnant the second time.

If my child had had 2 accidental pregnancies, I would talk to her about contraception. (My child HAS had 1, and we talked about contraception then and have recently talked about it again, when she told me she had changed her method of contraception).

Abortion is a different matter. I didn't want her to have one with her only pregnancy, but I also didn't influence her. It is the biggest decision we make in life, to have a child, and I wanted it to be totally her choice.

Just to clarify where I spoke about the termination I meant when it got to the third child although I never voiced those thoughts to my daughter and would not have done that.
The third grand-child is a joy but like I said my daughter puts
a heavy bargaining claim on my time and I do not always find that easy.

you are interfering in the most personal aspects of this family's life.
it is not your business, and subsidising them does not give you the right to intrude in these matters.
it sounds very unhealthy. perhaps it would be better if you did not subsidise them. have they applied for benefits.
let them live their own life in their own way.

MissAdventure

I would think that considering these adults are unable to support themselves, it makes sense for them to weigh up all their options.

I agree MissA providing its their decision with no pressure from the OP.
I think you are too invested in your son and his family Ormond I understand they need your help financially but I think you need to let them sort out their own lives and child care.

Ormond ; sometimes we have to remember we are the grand-parents and not the parents. All decisions taken about the child must be taken by the parents.
My daughter had her first child and not long after announced that another baby was on the way. Both children unplanned.
The two babies were only one year apart. My daughter struggled to cope, firstly with two babies that young and then also financially. I was called on to help with everything
which I willingly done and I did have two beautiful grand-children.
The two children were almost school age and it had been difficult and she announced she was expecting another child. There was no father on the scene and I was certainly not pleased another child was on the way.
This put her back to square one and I have stepped back quite a bit particularly financially, I still offer some support
but will not allow her to make excuses about having children without taking the consequences to be able to provide for them.
I at no time ever suggested terminations to her although I will not lie the thought did come into my mind as her ability to cope with the first two was never 100 per cent.

You are right to think of the long term repercussions on everyone but the choice is not yours to make.

DD2 was on the pill and taking it properly each time she fell pregnant. It's not 100% effective no matter how careful you are.

Try not to worry about having children in quick succession. If I'd waited until I could afford children I'd have never had them but somehow we managed.

As said earlier, they need to check they are getting all the benefits that they are entitled to. It's more difficult when on a zero hour contract so you have to know the system. It's worth looking on a website like Turn2Us as they have benefit calculators and give advice.

benefits-calculator.turn2us.org.uk/AboutYou

Of course you are concerned but by commenting to them at all,you are overstepping a line.Their decision is their decision. If you are unhappy then make it clear that financially you can't help more than you do,but keep out of such emotional,fraught decisions.

I would never suggest a termination and would be very careful when giving any advice. Sometimes it can get thrown back in your face.
You sound as if you are really supportive but back off a bit. I think too much help might stop your DIL learning to cope on her own.
I know it’s difficult trying not to be too involved but it will be for the best.

Ormond. If their income is precarious and it sounds like it maybe they can apply for Universal Credit which will top up their income each month. It can all be done online. At the moment we are doing everything over the phone and it is a reasonably straight forward process. Hopefully it may relieve some of the pressure from you too.

I’m with GagaJo on this. The reliability of the contraceptive pill is exceptionally high so two unplanned pregnancies using it properly is unlikely.
Your son needs to take responsibility for contraception, either condoms or sterilisation as his partner doesn’t seem capable.

As for suggesting an abortion, you have absolutely no right to interfere.

I have under two years between my children and they were always friends. I am not saying they never quarrelled but, on the whole, they got on really well and they are still very friendly.

I do see that you are worried about money but it is up to them. I think you should stay out of it.

Ormond

@felice, I fully accept that it not my place to make such a decision for any other woman to have to go through a termination.

As for your comment about condoms, my son is fully aware of what they are and how to use them, but as a couple, his partner had opted to use the pill.

Two accidental pregnancies would suggest that he cannot trust either his partner OR the pill and that probably he should take some of the responsibility for contraception. BEFORE a third accidental pregnancy.

My daughter solved this by getting a teenage, foreign au pair. You may not be able to do this with Brexit but she only had bed and board , no pay and was a great support.

I would think that considering these adults are unable to support themselves, it makes sense for them to weigh up all their options.

As I read your post, it is not certain that she is pregnant; and a lot of early pregnancies do not lead to a baby. My DD's second pregnancy would have given her two children under two, which I thought was not a good idea; but at the twelve-week scan, there was no heartbeat. Fortunately, I had buttoned my lip. So continue supporting them, in whatever ways you feel comfortable with, but do not allow yourself to make any comments either for or against termination. Another DD has children born 19 months apart; it was a lot of hard work, but now they have become very good friends and can entertain each other. An unlocked-for bonus is that because they are so close in age, home-schooling is easier! Good luck to all of you.

I can’t believe that someone would suggest to a pregnant woman that she ‘weighs up all of her options’ if my parents or in laws had said that to me they would have been out of the door.

I have a small gap between my boys and someone said to me that there were choices. They didn't think we could cope and were always trying to give us things and remind us how much they helped which made us feel small.
We don't see them now and they didn't get to see our amazing boys grow up. That's not a good thing to suggest to expecting parents.

@Farmor15 - Really appreciate your comments, which offers reassurance around positive outcomes for all concerned, many thanks.

@felice, I fully accept that it not my place to make such a decision for any other woman to have to go through a termination.

As for your comment about condoms, my son is fully aware of what they are and how to use them, but as a couple, his partner had opted to use the pill.

I would stay well out of those kind of conversations.

My son and partner had a similar experience- accidental pregnancy which meant 2 children very close together and mother was not coping well with 1st. In early tests, potential abnormalities with baby showed up and they were warned of possibility of brain problems. There was a very worrying time and termination was considered. However, further tests showed only slight problems which could be corrected and they proceeded with pregnancy and had second baby only 14 months after first.

Now he is 4 and I know they are very glad they didn’t opt for abortion. There were a couple of difficult years - we helped as much as we could. They didn’t have the same financial problems as Ormond’s” son, which I suppose makes a difference.

All you can do is give as much support as possible without interfering with new family. The early months with first baby are difficult for all 1st time parents- 2nd much easier! 18 months between babies is not that close - by then 1st should be walking and a bit independent.