The child is apparently cared for by his father, who is a job-seeker, apart from the day when he attends nursery.
I am having serious doubts about the original post.
How to Keep Living at Home Longer
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Grandparenting
Hello folks,
Does anyone has insight/experience of what to expect/outcome, etc of an NHS Dietician referral for a two-and-a-half year-old?
I’m concerned if a referral for GS might boil down to, little more than a leaflet for parents?
GS is a Vegan, ongoing breastfed baby-thru-toddler... who's been 'low on Vit B12 and iron' in blood tests in blood tests, is tiny, and very underweight - not only does another 9-month-old GC weigh much more, but I sat GS on my lap and I can feel all the vertebrae in his spine sticking out!
His parents - I'm sorry to say about my own DS and partner – seem stauncher about their Vegan beliefs than their little one's nutrition; I ask about his 'protein' intake, and get a diatribe about the evils of the global meat industry destroying the planet. That wasn't the question.
I would never nag, but knowing they were trying and getting nowhere trying to feed him lentils etc, tried a suggestion that “just right now, while GS palate and taste-buds are still evolving”, for the sake of vital nutrition, his health, and development, just try anything, even if not Vegan e.g., a simple teaspoon of egg yolk, occasionally! Just to get some iron and B12 into him, instead battling [and getting stressed with failing] to get supplements and pulses into him? Once you’re past this stage, and get things balanced out, then introduce the Vegan diet back in?”
This, literally a simple two sentence suggestion of a teaspoon of egg yolk… [maybe occasionally?] provoked a horrifyingly aggressive reaction from DS and no contact for weeks.
BTW – there’s no other grandparents involved here: DS’s GF is an orphan. And I really sympathise with this and – with all due respect to DS’s GF – it’s probably hard to take on another ‘mother’ without resentment, even just emotional resentment. But that’s not the issue here: the issue is an undernourished and malnourished nearly-three-old, they are apparently concerned about, and at a loss to know what to do with.
And, I’m shocked that under the circumstances, I don’t observe a stronger nurturing instinct kicking in towards the GS – I’ve had GF shrieking on the phone at 1am, threatening to commit suicide – with the baby in the house – because they’ve had a row and “no one cares about her”; and so self-obsessed that she kept posting ‘boastful’ type pics on social media, each time GS fell over and ended up with big bruises on his face - then wondering why someone [no idea who] contacted social services. Seriously.
I have a background in nutrition, qualifications, and worked alongside global child nutrition experts ... More recently, I worked as a Dementia care manager, and one person who was ‘starving themselves’ i.e., not eating, I was delighted to find, after six months, I’d raised their cognitive function results by 50% simply by adjusting their nutritional intake. Dementia starves the brain, and nutrition for dementia sufferers is as vital as that for a little one.
I'm not trying to say to the DS/GF that I know better, or more - just, trying to be supportive while GS lack of growth and development is sliding into an extreme situation. They don’t seem to notice anymore…
GS came over, at lunch, wan, speechless, staring into space, not interacting – I managed to get a Weetabix and half into him – and suddenly he was like a different child. Giggling, babbling, colour in his cheeks. His blood sugar levels must have been at zero! And DS was oblivious, “Oh, but we’ll be eating later”.
But, both DS/GF noticed and been surprised that GS will sit and eat at least something at Grandma’s house: well, for one thing, at Grandma’s house there’s easy rules, like not wandering about in front of a 48” TV screen, while picking up food, playing with it, or throwing it at the dog.
However, GS has no serious interest in consuming anything except breast milk, OR packets of various highly processed 'snacks' [crisps, fruit bars, muesli bar] fed to him if the packets have a 'V' [vegan] label on it.. GS points at food and ingredients, gets interested in seeing it cooked, but eating it? No way.
I try to say, about training GS food tastebuds, and DS argues back that the long list of highly processed artificial ‘ingredients’ in a packet of salty crisps are ‘ingredients’ exactly as ‘milk’ is an ‘ingredient in ‘cheese’.
Then, DS’s GF is not especially bright [my firmly schtum-kept observation], and is very domineering... with a tactic of talking relentlessly over and deflecting any simple conversation, with she can "look it all up on the internet". And, makes astounding comparisons such as, feeding a teaspoon of egg yolk to GS would be as revolting as… DS consuming one of her own eggs!
And in answer to my mild observation that - cultural norms - around the world, throughout history, all humans, and primates, evolved, eating some level of animal protein, even if only occasional scavenged bird eggs [viz cavemen hunter-gatherers and chimpanzees] ... Apparently, "Yes, but we know better these days …and … in some societies it’s probably culturally normal to rape children..." OMG. Yes, that was the – jaw dropping – response to shut up Grandma.
Please don’t anyone think I nag these parents!! Seriously, I don’t. I have very tentatively tried to get to some bottom line, about what is their priority: their beliefs or their child’s wellbeing?
I lived in sub-Saharan Africa for almost a decade – surrounded by kids impacted by under-nutrition, and malnutrition, who, in the words of health experts I worked with, will, sadly, “Never reach their full potential because of lack of protein.” And here we are, in UK, with a GC staring into space, or at the TV, while his parents are staring at their flipping phones, telling me, “He can eat meat when he’s old enough to buy it for himself…” and offering him days-old, cold, pasta, and shrugging off his food refusal – like somehow in decades to come he’ll be a fully cognitive, developed adult regardless of lack of nutrition. Not acknowledging he’s NOT an adult like them, able to make nutritional decisions for himself.
The irony is my DS used to complain as a kid because I hardly ever served up meat; we also know plenty of other families who’ve reared strapping six feet children on a vegetarian diet. However, those parents actually some good idea about child nutritional requirements.
My DS seems to have lost all backbone to stand up as a father or in the relationship [GF is an appalling spendthrift getting them into £1,000s of debt] - and he seems to have retreated into Vegan moral high ground, to have any sense of control in the relationship... even GF admits this.
He’s also lazy. Sorry, he’s my DS and I can say that about him, so he’ll try a couple of bits of toast with GS and then, toxic-snacks aside, let GS wait all day, til GF comes home after work, before any ‘meal’ is prepped. And then's surprised/depressed that GS is too far past it, to want to eat, anything apart from breast-milk.
But, while all the relationship issues are 'theirs' to deal with as a couple - at the heart of this is a little GS, who's turning into a stunted little dwarf, and whose learning and development is regressing... with his spinal vertebrae sticking out etc.
I couldn't seem to have a simple conversation to draw out their concerns, without either triggering the 'meat industry' angry response, or the astounding comparisons of 'raping children' ... So, I've changed tack, keep my mouth shut and instead cook and serve up delicious homemade vegan meals for when GS comes over. Even if GS doesn't eat them 
then DS can learn some recipe ideas to take home.
I was a Nutritional Counsellor, and Chef, and can ram every vitamin, mineral, amino acid, you name it, into a simple dish. Sad;y, these 'hidden' nutrients also seem to escape GS parents’ [just blend up veggies etc into a pasta sauce... ffs]. Apologies for swearing. But, no - they also seem to be lazy parents. I go and babysit and what's in the fridge to offer GS?
... nearly one week-old cooked, cheapest, plain white pasta. Nothing else aside from a soya yoghurt. Not even fortified Vegan 'growing up milk' which I kept buying for GS [because they have no money, or care that it might be a stepping-stone [from breast milk] towards a wider dietary intake] - they just left it in their fridge until it was way past the use by date).
The fridge and cupboards are joyless and/or empty – it seems there’s an acceptance that GS won’t eat – he refuses almost everything – so they’ve given up trying to feed him.
But, GS will go out – of the house – and happily eat vegan chocolate cake and 'vegan milk-shakes' when his Mum goes off for regular, so-called 'self-care', trips to cafes [all documented on social media, together with close-up images of her nipples expressing milk, for 450 ‘friends’ to see].
I think GS would be even more underweight if it weren't for consuming those 'empty calories' of sugar and fat?
I’m concerned what an NHS Dietician will come up with for a little one just not interested in eating a thing – apart from sugary cake, and breast milk.
Yes, his parents are concerned - hence the dietician referral - but that’s offset by a GF’s shrugged, "Well, I was picky as a baby, I turned out alright", laissez-faire expectation of whatever happens at the referral. As though, whatever advice they’re given they expect to ignore, because “I can look it all up on the internet anyway, and they [the professional experts] don’t understand and are just prejudiced about Veganism and breast-fed children”.
Worrying about my little GS welfare keeps me awake at night.
Squibsy this little boy’s life could be dependent on the actions you take. He needs you to do something to help him.
My dd, while on medical training, saw vegan twin toddlers admitted to hospital. One was just days away from death. Both were malnourished and developmentally way behind other children of their age. It wasn’t deliberate by the parents, they were simply misguided and uneducated about how to have a healthy vegan diet. It was very distressing for the staff to see these poor children.
I am so sorry you’ve also had a very ill grandchild in your family. I hope they make a full recovery. 
25Avalon
Vegan or no vegan your gs is being neglected. He is not getting meals regularly or at the right time. The less he eats the less he will want to eat as his stomach will shrink. His parents don’t seem to care. There is plenty of iron in green vegetables and B12 in marmite which is vegan. I am sure the dietician will work with the parents to get an adequate regular diet that is vegan friendly. Just looking at a label that says vegan is not enough. Soy products don’t have enough protein for a growing 2 year old. I would suggest trying to work with the parents, if that’s at all possible, that they can be vegan but they need to find suitable vegan products for their son. Do they eat week old cold bland pasta I wonder? I doubt it.
25Avalon - absolutely agree with all you say ... I've gone out and bought them 'B12' foods, flagged up green vegetables - especially as DS is depressed, and Magnesium deficiency can be a factor in that. But, even these [non-judgemental, just proffered, "saw this, I was buying some so I got some for you"] doesn't seem to be sinking in.
I'm beating myself up so much here - that I didn't, or couldn't, get some basic cooking skills into DS before he left home. Although, it's kind of that same busy-working parent syndrome as today (?) - even now, all my 'kids' come over and don't appreciate 'this isn't a restaurant, food doesn't magically appears... it takes some work and effort, and a lot of love put in, for Grandma to cook for them all... I kind of get a slightly scoffed-at impression that I haven't simply ordered a takeaway.
Vegansrock - Phew! You said it... it's not just me spotting it then
Missadventure - thanks it's good to know the phrases to cut to the chase of what a third party is trying to explain to SS. It's all too easy to get a bit overwhelmed and sound like ... perhaps, I just differ on food choices. Also - from a couple of experience ages ago [the Dementia person I cared for, then being in hospital witnessing Dementia patients being not fed - all they needed was a little 1-2-1 and help to actually reach the food!] to get an impatient brush-off, "You can't force people to eat!" ... No, of course not. But, people [vulnerable people of any age] if aren't given any practical help - how an they eat, whether they want to or not?
Literally [during weeks in hospital] I'd see catering staff take away uneaten food from elderly patients who couldn't even reach the plates... and nursing staff just put it down to they weren't hungry ... for days, one elderly lady wasn't eating, until I hobbled across the ward and just sat chatting with her while she ate.
Luckygirl - I sooo would, but FT nursery costs would be twice the amount of my actually weekly income ...
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