Aggression towards grandparents

I agree with M0nica and eazybee Squeaker. Until the parents can reassure you that this type of behaviour will not be repeated, don't agree to have the children at your home without the parents being there.

Such an extreme physical outburst at being told 'no' does suggest that this isn't the first time the child has responded in this way and has succeeded in getting his own way at home.

It certainly wouldn't be tolerated at school or any pre school places he may have attended previously. This is the parents responsibility to sort and I hope for the 5 year old they do so, and do it quickly.

VioletSky’s advice is probably the only sensible one here. Although I’ve never done the rewards thing. Sounds like the child was having a really hard time there emotionally and perhaps you’re not best placed to deal with it. Very presumptuous about what has gone on at home though.

You need to have a serious discussion with the parents immediately. Kicking, biting and hitting out at adults is not normal behaviour for a five year old, who should have been at school for the past year, and you need to find out if this behaviour happens elsewhere and what triggers it. I have no doubt you were in shock when this tantrum occurred.

Don't attempt to look after these children until you are clear what the issues are behind their actions. The parents need to seek professional help for their sons and face up to their behaviour.

You probably should not have pulled the hair but easy to see why. Children of that age can still tantrum and be overwhelmed with their anger. Best to ask the parents how they deal with it - sometimes it is best to leave them to come out of it on their own.

this can't be just isolated with you if the child is 5

Smacking children is unacceptable, as is pulling their hair. How do you know if "the child has been punished at all"?

You don't say who "both of us" is. Two adults?

My husband and I could quite easily subdue a 5 yr old with our speech, arms, hands and no violent hair pulling.

You certainly should be able to refuse to babysit until you enquire and are informed the child behaves, IMO.

I would personally remove myself from that sort of situation. If you can't and the child is in danger of hurting you or themselves, as a last resort I might use safe handling and sit the child on my lap in a hug hold until they calm down.

Also remember to use your words, explain your expectations. Offer choices. Use positive language, like "walk please" instead of "don't run". Have a reward for them to work towards with good behaviour.

At 5, there could be many reasons this is happening and it will just need patience and consistency. Something that exhausted parents may be struggling with. They need support.

Retaliating wasn’t the best idea, but this attack had gone on for over 30 mins. The child was hysterical and this did bring them back swiftly. This was a quick not hard tug.
No, parents not present.
I am certain this behaviour has happened before at home. Infact ,the child had told the mother that they wanted to hit their other grandma, but hadn’t. I was absolutely shocked when I heard this . No behaviour problems elsewhere as far as I am aware. I am really upset and it’s made things awkward as you can imagine.

How would smacking a child teach them not to hit?

You have also now taught the child to pull hair.

Yes the parents need to help this child to develop socially and emotionally but that is down to them and there are better ways of doing it.

There may also be underlying needs that will become apparent soon.

You have the right to avoid engaging with the child until that happens

I would have phoned the parents to pick them up right away. That behaviour is not acceptable. I wouldn't have retaliated though by hair pulling.

I feel like the parents should have warned you of this sort of behavior and because they didn’t..well you had to stop him on short notice and you were surely bewildered. It sounds absolutely awful as well, a wild animal going for the face!! Truly hope the boy learned something productive out of that. Of course this is all predicated on the assumption that, the hair pulling that you felt you had no choice but to do, was with the absolute minimum amount of force needed to prevent yourself being injured, which I’m sure is what happened here. So sorry Squeaker!

How did the parents react, either at the time, if present, or when you told them, when they returned.

As you say it is difficult to discipline the children in a situation like this. How about disciplining the parents. Tell them that they must always be with the children when they visit you, or that you cannot entertain them in your house until reasonable behaviour can be guaranteed because they are a danger to your health and wellbeing.

What a shocking experience for you Squeaker. Were the parents present when this was going on?

were the parents present or did you just have the two children 5 and 4.