Do I approach my son and DIL about their lifestyle and parenting issues?

From what you say yr wife's children were brought them up in the way she thought best and they were trou led children who needed therapy and meds. Maybe not a great advert for her metgkds
Teachers should be aware of signs of abuse but are not necessarily experts in child development, children aged 4 are typically too young for school anyway. If she taught teenagers or 7 year Olds she should be good at spotting genuine signs of neglect. I suspect grandchild picks up somehow on her disapproval.
Why the obsession with wife going out, would she be happy for the dad to go out, children have 2 parents. She needs to make your place a happy one if you are happy to have him over.
Is she jealous that he is taking up your time maybe?
I had pressure from my I laws because of my children's behavior, which was perfectly normal children's behavior, I wasn't going to hit them for example. 2 of their sons grew up violent under that regime, now exs on ly way of dealing with a disagreement with me was violence, he grew up thinking that that was the way to control someone who didn't do what he wanted
I'm afraid interference just meant that they never visited alone until they were old enough to choose to. Mil tried to get me on her side criticizing my sister in law about her children, I refused to get involved and if she tried to do the same with her it didn't work euther
Hard for you but she needs to wind her neck in.
Most children that sort of age have a limited diet by choice, and I'd much rather that the parents spent time with him than doing deep cleaning

A big NO from me !

In the past I've worried myself silly about my first granddaughter being unable to read and write .
I tried to say something .
It did not go down well .
Any attempt from my daughter was met with tears and tantrums .
She employed tears and tantrums over every other aspect of her parent's lives too .
My daughter found her really hard to cope with .
Her partner was in complete denial and made things worse .

And I've found my grandson really violent - I've had to stop him from hurling ornaments at my father's china cabinets and even at the head of my second granddaughter .

My son and his partner left childcare to her father, who is a very nice man , but inexperienced in looking after children and scared of offending his parents . On one occasion he was banned from looking after his grandson .
Any criticism was met with extreme hostility on their part .

Things have finally calmed down -
my granddaughter finally learnt to read and write , because her teachers read the riot act to her parents .And teachers also presented the parents of my grandson with an ultimatum about his appalling behaviour .

I think unless abuse is taking place, you would probably do best to say nothing and enjoy what you do have. There are plenty of us who do not get to have that.

Your wife, having worked with children will know the signs of abuse and if they are not there, then really it's up to parents to do the best they can. I cannot imagine how hard it must be to work full time with a young child.

Well done, you, OP. You've negotiated some tricky waters successfully and listened to what others have to say. Clearly your wife is a woman of firm views. I would take issue ( slightly) with her being a child development expert: she was a speech therapist . I am a retired Early Years teacher, lecturer, and former governor of a special school. I wouldn't call myself an expert of speech difficulties.
However, you have managed to avoid the pitfalls, here, so take heart- being a grandparent is a privilege you can, now, continue to enjoy.

Just tell you wife you love her for her concern but the subject is closed for now AND STICK TO THAT You can love and nurture your damaged wife without playing into her insecurities.in fact that is what she needs someone to love and understand her but have strict boundaries so her own life doesn’t spill over into a new generation
Reassure her you will be vigilant but for now you are happy everything is alright if different to what she would like to see

She wants the old fashioned childhood that she didn’t have

utopiarun

Madgran77 haha easier said than done!

I know but worth a try. Listen to her comments, repeat back so she knows you have heard, tell her that you still feel as you do re the best way forward. If she carries on tell her you have heard but will not discuss further.

I do know that's not easy but your version of tge principles I have described woukd at least be a way of shutting down the stress well you are on.

And enjoy your GS!

Crikey. Yes of course, do confront your son and DIL about their lifestyle - if you secretly long to be shot of them and your grandchild forevermore!

I can't help thinking that although your wife has worked in education for many years she must have worked in some supplementary role which didn't require any knowledge of child development.

For her to say that she "has seen these signs before and it can be dangerous" is an extreme judgement of what - as you've described it - is entirely natural behaviour for a 4 year old child. In all honesty and with no desire to be hurtful, I think it's your wife who is close to behaving dangerously.

Your ex-wife too hasn't the right to interfere or judge so long as the child is well and happy. She had her child/ren and brought them up the way she thought was fit: this is not her child, nor her "do-over" and your son and DIL would quite rightly be enraged and probably hurt if she had the gall to criticise their parenting.

I found it interesting that at one point you said "His mother likes to go out to concerts (she's a bit of a free spirit)". That sounds to me as though you're judging her by standards that, quite frankly, died out for most folks in the 1960's/70's.

She's an adult woman, whom you yourself state works in a very demanding job, and she has every right to relax in any legal way she chooses. And of course, if they still love one another, she and your son like to go out together.

That does NOT however mean that you and your wife "have to watch him once every two weeks, sometimes overnight."

You're absolutely within your rights to tell your son & DIL that that doesn't work for you - eg it's too tiring; ties you down too much; makes you feel taken for granted - whatever your problem with it is. Then they can do what all those people who don't have parents around them do; they can find a babysitter.

It's a pity your wife finds it all so upsetting. Some grandparents would kill to see their grandchildren every two weeks, whilst others care for theirs 5 days a week while their child works.

As to the cats, please don't worry. I brought up my son with 16 cats and he was just fine.

Madgran77 haha easier said than done!

utopiarun well done for finding a way through. And I suggest reassuring your wife as soon as she raises any "issues" and moving on, rather than long discussions

They both work full time, mum is sensible and takes time off to pursue her hobbies, life is enriched with pets and the child is fed things theybwill actuallybeat at 4... sound like great parents to me

btw

"He has issues with transitioning from dad to grampa etc but is that abnormal?

I think kids are too inconsistent at 4 for it to be remarkable?

Well done you.

What BlueBelle said too

Sounds the best outcome Well done Gramps you ve quietly been assertive in the situation without causing trouble Stick to your guns and praise your wife when she dies little things with him that are successful
Keep any critics m well and truly zipped and don’t think for one minute we re all virtuous I bet we ve all made mistakes with grown up kids it’s really hard to change the role from looking after to having no say

maybe you could offer to go over to their house to babysit etc, just you, to get a bit of peace and space.
good luck.

Hi, again thanks for the comments and reassurance. Some background, my wife has 2 children of her own, both had troubled childhoods (therapy, meds, etc) but one is a doctor now and the other a police officer. She does spend quality time with my gs, will take him for ice cream, does crafts and puts puzzles together with him so she does connect with him. It's just that when grampa is there he wants me. My son was the same way with me. My gs loves his daddy and mommy but sometimes can act out to his mother. My wife sees that as he doesn't have a good connection with women and that will be an issue down the road. last week he said he didn't want me! When I started chasing him he laughed and all was good. To be honest my wife had issues of abandonment her whole life so when my gs says he doesn't want her she gets sad. He has issues with transitioning from dad to grampa etc but is that abnormal? The decision I made yesterday is that I am not going to say anything to them. I know my wife won't, she respects the boundaries. She is a good woman and loves my gs, she just is hanging on to this. BTW, my son hasn't said a word about his wife going out. He seems to be OK we have a good relationship and I told him if he needs to talk I am here. Thanks again everyone!

utopiarun I can see why this is stressing you! I think you need to say to your wife that enough discussion has taken place. That you do not think it would be helpful to raise anything with the parents. That the little boy is behaving like a normal 4-year-old. That if problems arise in the future, you will both support as much as you can within the wishes of the parents. That you will continue to support them now within the wishes of the parents

And then discuss with her the link between her worries and anxieties and her own childhood and encourage her to discuss these with her therapst.

Good luck

Sorry but your wife saying she’s an expert in child development makes me smile, then she should realise that not all children are the same, I think she has the problem grampa I don’t mean that nastily but she’s not looking at this situation rationally! If I remember I’m sure I read another post quite a while ago similar to this post, about a grandfather having trouble with his wife dictating!

I have 6 grandchildren. I recall one lying on the street screaming and drumming his heels because I wouldn't carry him. I sat on a wall while he continued for 30 minutes. Passersbyby just smiled understandingly at me. It is my house my rules. We looked after him two days each week. Sometimes he was grandad's boy and wouldn't look at me. It would eventually pass and yes it hurt me. He is now 7 and is a delightful child. Kind and biddable.
We don't have issues with his parenting. Some things we don't agree with But we ignore these.
He is not our child!!

If your grandson is safe then stay out of it.
He is not your child, your wife's child, or your ex wife's child.

May I ask does your wife take an opportunity to play with him or join in when you play with him. Does she kick a ball with him or play hide and seek, build a den under the table?
Would she take him out alone to the park. Go for ice cream. Anything on a one to one basis to encourage interaction.
It may take time.
But I repeat, do not interfere. And even if asked for an opinion on something you should choose your words carefully and never sound critical.

I'm sorry you are in such an awful situation.
Your wife needs to back off. And to do so she needs to understand that this must not affect your own relationship.

Stuck not stick

Oh grampa you sound lovely caring man and obviously stick in the middle, no, no, do not interfere it will not end well, and no disrespects to your wife but what difference does it make how many years she’s been in education, it means zilch! So what do you and your ex wife intend saying! I know what I would say back! He’s not yours, how they live their life is up to them, the cat scenario isn’t ideal but probably immune to smells you said he’s bright, he’s fed ok , not every child when small want to eat certain foods, I rember one of mine didn’t one of four, I actually took him to the drs my first child telling her he’s going to starve I can only get him to eat rice crispies and fish fingers, she laughed and said so be it, he’s mow 6 Ft 5 man still fussy but not eating like that any more ? his children do love fish fingers though, I’m afraid they will see your advise as interfering and not thinking that they can look after him properly, he doesn’t sound like he is in any danger, if you do put your oar in they will lock horns and you could be outed

I do not think there are any grandparents who do not at times think "I would not have done it like that." But it is an irrelevance. As long as the children are loved and not in danger then there is no role for the grandparents except to be loving and supportive.

There is no problem in not putting a child first - they have to fit in with family and society and cannot always be first. Your GS's mother going out to enjoy herself is just fine. If she were out drinking every night and neglecting to make sure her son was cared form then there would be a problem. But it seems that is not the case here.

Did your wife have kids?
Is your son her son too or is it the son with your exwife?

Your wife must call her therapist and organize an emergency session - right now

If she won't do it, you would need to call the therapist and inform him/her so they can assess the situation

Her obsession with how the gc is raised, dil not being a good mom and your wife's disconnection with reality is going to escalate and create issues.

I hope she does not call dil directly and takes matters into her own hands.

Does your son think his wife goes out too much? If he's happy with the situation and is happy to care for his son it's no-one else's business really, whatever we may think is right or what we did as young parents.

I wonder if your grandson senses your wife's disapproval and that's why he doesn't relate well to her?

All you can do is love him, as you obviously do, care for him when you can and use that time to sit and eat together, talk and listen to him, read books with him, take him out for some fresh air, whatever you think he needs and would enjoy.
But don't speak critically of his parents in front of him, and certainly not to them directly.

BlueBelle Lastly it is VERY VERY rare to get full agreement on GN threads This time you have 100% posts telling you your wife is wrong for heavens sake listen

Indeed.

I predict not listening will lead to "estranged and I have no idea why" -- GN is replete with such posts.

Dear utopiarun, you are between a rock and a hard place, aren't you?

You wife is vulnerable on the very point - childhood - that you are trying to deal with. It's very possible she is, as one could say, over-identifying with him. Feeling what she perceives as neglect because it pushes all her own painful buttons.
I speak from experience: however much therapy one has done, there are always issues where I will have "blind spots", where I see something thats just too "close to home" emotional wise.

She will almost certainly be familiar with the psychological idea of "good-enough" parenting. that is to say, that the parenting has not been ideal but it has had ENOUGH stability and love and acceptance of the child ie, your GS, to thrive.

So that means both mum and dad's and your love and acceptance and hopefully both grandmas.

Of course it has put your anxiety through the roof, but fwiw, my opinion is it would be worse if one of the grandmas cause antagonism or a split. And tbh, I think that it might be harder for your wife in the medium term.

Its horrible feeling so anxious but I don't think there is a quick fix but enduring.