Do I approach my son and DIL about their lifestyle and parenting issues?

how long have you been married

OP, are you 100% sure your wife doesn’t have more serious psych issues?I am asking because her responses to what is otherwise fairly normal bratty behavior of young children seem so disproportionate to the offenses. It doesn’t appear from what you described that she is well from a mental and emotional standpoint. You say she is experienced and educated when it comes to children, but she doesn’t appear to have much knowledge of basic early childhood development and behavior. I do not doubt what you say about her background, but I don’t think that a trained professional would so blatantly ignore the teachings to this extent unless there were some serious mental issues going on.

For now, it would be better for the child to cease the current arrangement. She doesn’t seem stable or able to handle it. You don’t want her to lose herself one day with your grandchild. And do more to defend your son and dil when she puts them down to you. You have more to lose in alienating them than you do speaking up to her.

Your wife is going to cause serious problems if you are not very careful. She clearly doesn't understand young children and probably doesn't actually want your grandchild staying with you. Your son and DIL deserve time off but maybe other solutions ie paid childcare need to be looked at before estrangement happens.. or you need to be firmer with your wife ...

And personally I wouldn't leave your grandson alone with her. She has serious issues.

Your 'wife' is a danger to your family. She is wanting to control and coerce you and drive a wedge between you and your son and grandson. I would show her the door. This has gone on for months now. When your son cuts you off because she has caused it then you will left wondering what happened. Your 'wife' will have total control of you then and have you all to herself. Are you willing to lose your son and grandson? Never tolerate even a slight criticism of your family again by her. Not even once. She is dangerous.

Op

Your wife and you need to apologize for overstepping and back off 100 miles

Op

Your wife's behavior is horrible

I'm just thinking that the real problem is your wife, not the behaviour of an apparently normal 4/5 year old.

This really is your wife's problem! And I really think you know that.

I think it was right to tell your son about the behaviour. But why did you then start criticising the parenting? . Because you did that it was not longer a "Team Talk" about your GS, how to support him to learn etc" ..it became a critique of "Parenting Faults" as perceived by you and/or your wife. Did you say those things to pacify your wife? If so you need to be honest with yourself and make sure that that never happens again.

But in the end this problem \IS your wife's. And estrangement or very low contact will follow if she does not back off and if you continue to "pacify" her at the expense of your relationship with your son's family (if that is what you are doing)

utopiarun, confront them? No! Have a good discussion with your wife about the perceived problems - yes!

Your wife needs to get over herself and stop fixating on someone else's 5 year old.

MercuryQueen

Your wife seems to be pushing a lot of her emotional well being on a preschooler. Yes, your grandson acted out and was rude, but her reaction was over the top, imo. He’s a preschooler. Big emotions, learning control, and how he impacts others around him.

Frankly, it sounds as though your wife disapproves or your DIL because she’s not doing things as your wife thinks she ought to. How often DIL is out is none of your wife’s business. If you don’t want to babysit, fair enough. Decline. But obviously their parenting and marriage works for them, so MYOB.

Unsolicited advice is criticism. The only thing that will change is how welcome you and your wife are in your son’s family.

This ^

Estrangement is on if your wife doesn't keep her opinions silent.

You're early 60s and he's 5 - time to quit caring for GC. Your wife can't abide the pressure from a 5 year old. If this escalates much more I predict she'll be cut away and "have no idea why" (a usual silly response).

I find it extraordinary that someone who has worked with children for 40years can be reduced to tears by a stroppy 5year old. Surely she has been the focus of much worse behaviour over those years.
I suspect the problem is your wife. Perhaps she doesn't really want to take on the level of care she has and she is becoming stressed. You need to have a real talk with her about this, without becoming angry.
It may be that she would prefer not to have regular contact.
I don't think there is much wrong with your GS and his family. Maybe they aren't perfect parents, but he is loved and cared for.

Your wife seems to be pushing a lot of her emotional well being on a preschooler. Yes, your grandson acted out and was rude, but her reaction was over the top, imo. He’s a preschooler. Big emotions, learning control, and how he impacts others around him.

Frankly, it sounds as though your wife disapproves or your DIL because she’s not doing things as your wife thinks she ought to. How often DIL is out is none of your wife’s business. If you don’t want to babysit, fair enough. Decline. But obviously their parenting and marriage works for them, so MYOB.

Unsolicited advice is criticism. The only thing that will change is how welcome you and your wife are in your son’s family.

Hi, I'm back! Sorry, but I need a little support. So a couple of times a week, my wife goes over to my son and DIL house early in the morning to take my GS to school (pre-k). She has to get there around 6:30AM as my DIL starts work at 7. Most of the time it is OK, he can be a little testy in the morning, but this past Friday he kicked her and told her he hates her and doesn't want to come by our house. She was visibly upset and crying ("I don't need this", etc) and I texted my son about what happened and went a little far and criticized some of what we feel is an issue (too many screens, not enough physical interaction with my GS etc). I wanted to support my wife. She was thankful that I sent the message. My son was upset more that my GS was acting badly so he had my GS call my wife to apologize for being bad (he will be 5 in 8 days) and all went well. My wife accepted it etc. Saturday my wife started railing about how terrible they are as parents and they are "grossly negligent". Again, he is well fed, smart (reading 2nd grade level) and always has clean clothes on. He is 5 so I expect him to be grumpy at times. Yesterday it got worse and my wife and I got into a screaming match. I am just floored that she feels they are so incredibly incompetent and any time I counter her she will yell that she has been working with children for 40 years and knows the signs. I just walked away. When I went to pick up my GS. he wanted to come by my house and play and we both played with him. My anxiety is through the roof because I suffer from it and anything that "rings the anxiety bell" will not go away for days or weeks. I told my wife that we just have to do the best we can for my GS and unless there is a clear pattern of abuse (which there is absolutely none) we will say nothing. The solution to the problem is that I will be going to take him to school in the mornings and she can pick him up in the afternoon. Not sure if anyone wants to respond, I just had to vent here.

Well done great to hear of a fairly well handled end to a problem
Good luck for the future

That's really good to hear utopiarun.
Your grandson sounds like a totally lovely, normal 4 year old.

hi, yes i am in the US. he loves playing with his "girlfriend" and his cousins. Yes he can act up at times but mostly when he is tired. Thank you for all of your support and have a good weekend.

Kindergarten here starts at 5 years old, some schools offer optional pre-k at 4

6 is 1st grade, 7 is 2and grade (out of total 12 grades)

When a person is cranky, it is harder to deal with- adults and kids, period
It is unrealistic to think a child won't have difficult moments

Utopiarun some of your text makes me think you're in the States where things are a little different. For example you say 'act out' where we usually say 'act up', or 'watch' where we'd usually say 'mind' or 'childmind'. 'Mommy' and 'mom' are becoming more common in UK now, as is 'bathroom' instead of 'toilet' but together they give the impression of America.
Anyway, if this is the case and if you are in the States where I believe the age for starting school is 6 or 7years, your poor wife is going to have a few more years of feeling left out. I hope she can become reconciled to this because nothing's going to change his attitude and speaking to the parents can't help.
Does the boy have other family members to interact with? How does he behave with them?

My time with him is the best of the week is is just a fun kid to be with

Great!

hi all, right now all is OK, my wife said she is sorry she hurt me and will go by my wishes. Just to keep everyone informed, I see my grandson every weekend, usually on Sunday for a few hours. Sometimes my wife gets involved, sometimes not. The issues start when he is tired and cranky and can be a little belligerent towards both of us, mostly her. My time with him is the best of the week is is just a fun kid to be with.

utopiarun

Hi, again thanks for the comments and reassurance. Some background, my wife has 2 children of her own, both had troubled childhoods (therapy, meds, etc) but one is a doctor now and the other a police officer. She does spend quality time with my gs, will take him for ice cream, does crafts and puts puzzles together with him so she does connect with him. It's just that when grampa is there he wants me. My son was the same way with me. My gs loves his daddy and mommy but sometimes can act out to his mother. My wife sees that as he doesn't have a good connection with women and that will be an issue down the road. last week he said he didn't want me! When I started chasing him he laughed and all was good. To be honest my wife had issues of abandonment her whole life so when my gs says he doesn't want her she gets sad. He has issues with transitioning from dad to grampa etc but is that abnormal? The decision I made yesterday is that I am not going to say anything to them. I know my wife won't, she respects the boundaries. She is a good woman and loves my gs, she just is hanging on to this. BTW, my son hasn't said a word about his wife going out. He seems to be OK we have a good relationship and I told him if he needs to talk I am here. Thanks again everyone!

I think posters need to read the OPs latest comment as quoted above before commenting further really

Utopian its beginning to sound as though YOU are the one who is itching to interfere.
What do you imagine will happen if you do poke your nose in and criticise their childcare?
Firstly your son and his wife will not take a blind bit of notice.
Secondly you will lose your grandson and become estranged.

Does he go to Nursery/Pre School? Next year, if you're in the UK, he'll be at school and you'll see less of him anyway.