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Grandparenting

HELP me to Help my MIL!

(161 Posts)
MooMoo22 Sun 04-Dec-22 22:53:48

Hi all!

Sooo I'm a new mum too a 5 month old. He’s my parents 2nd Grandson; but he’s my In-laws first GC.

Soooo whilst we’ve had our fallouts we are on good terms but I have noticed my MIL is really struggling to accept a Grandparents bond and a mothers bond are very different things..

Theres been a lot of arguments over the MIL not respecting our boundaries. She didn't agree with him being EBF as she wanted to be able to feed him, she had a go at me frequently as she wanted to bath him change him the job lot, we had issues with her being very very possessive with the baby often saying ‘he’s not just your baby he’s mine too’, obsessing over sleepovers often falling out with us and crying because we said no.

We tried to see some of it as purely excitement but then we saw a lot of it as really quite selfish behaviour; the thrusting herself onto the baby, pushing for things we said no too, disregarding how we felt as parents and turning up on mass inviting her entire family too our house regular (MIL, FIL, 2x SIL’s and GGM & GGD) often we had 9 people in our small living room forcing me to sit upstairs on my bed in tears as I couldn’t sit down in my own house; we sort of hit a wall and we all fell out big time! But we finally sorted it and got too a safe point for us all where we found the medium level for everyone. I had to be tough with my choices and my partner had to basically had to be firm and say ‘mum your too much, your being too invasive. Your trying far too hard to be like a 2nd mum please back off your making her really anxious and your going to cause my GF to get post-natal depression!’. All fine. We all get along a lot better since then. She still doesn’t like the fact he’s breastfed but id have thought she would be more supportive considering she breastfed all her children!

But the more we spend time with her the more I can see that the MIL is very obviously struggling to transition from Parent to Grandparent. She gets so insulted and very obviously upset with me when the baby cries and wants to come back to me. My boyfriend noticed it today and said ‘my mum looked quite upset when he cried and you said ‘pass him here for 10 mins, he’ll just want a little drink and a comfort suckle’ which he did!

We’ve noticed her getting very clingy again and when shes around him you can see her DESPERATELY trying to push for a very intimate motherly kind of bond with him and then she gets very obviously upset when she doesn’t receive. He comes back to me and you can see her face DROP as shes so disappointed and hurt that she isn’t getting the same kind of bond I have with my baby.

We just don't know how to help her understand that the bond she will have isn’t INSTANT nor is it like the very intimate bond of a mother and baby. She will have a different kind of bond with him but it comes in time. We’ve tried boundaries with her and she just accused us of stopping her from being a central caregiver and we tried to explain we didn’t ask for that and she isn’t required to be that, we simply asked for her to just step back a little and enjoy spending time with him, enjoy watching us thrive as parents, be proud of how well were doing and not focus so heavily on doing everything a mum does! We just dont know how to approach the new obstacle of her bond with him, we dont doubt she’ll be a good grandparent but we want her to stop trying so hard to that maternal bond shes so desperately yearning for!

How do we help her see all this and transition into grandma!?

Madgran77 Tue 06-Dec-22 14:18:12

Hithere

Clearly talking to her doesnt work - after multiple tries

What are you planning to do next, specially when she breaks a rule?

Why you are and your partner keep entertaining her visits is beyond me - this is more than being too nice

I wonder what your upbringing was that plays a factor here.
We already know who raised your partner and why he behaves like he does now

I sort of agree with you Hithere but I think maybe the OP wants to try some tactics that have been suggested.

Moomoo clearly took a big step for herself, by refusing the weekend visit, and well done to her for listening to our suggestions about saying No and doing it. If things don't change I hope she and her partner manage together to go forward in a way that works for them, which may well end up being no visits etc

Cabbie21 Tue 06-Dec-22 13:02:41

This behaviour is inappropriate and unacceptable.
I would be stopping all visits. Maybe just go to their house, then you can leave as soon as any of this nonsense starts.

Whatever the reason for MIL’s behaviour, it has to be up to you and your husband to put your baby and yourselves first.

Hithere Tue 06-Dec-22 11:23:38

Clearly talking to her doesnt work - after multiple tries

What are you planning to do next, specially when she breaks a rule?

Why you are and your partner keep entertaining her visits is beyond me - this is more than being too nice

I wonder what your upbringing was that plays a factor here.
We already know who raised your partner and why he behaves like he does now

icanhandthemback Tue 06-Dec-22 10:32:52

Maybe in the future, if they are asking for visits just say, "x and I will talk about it and let you know." That gives you an opportunity to speak to your partner and work out what is acceptable to you both before he relays that back to his parents. You don't need to discuss her needs with your MIL and if she won't stop, just say calmly that you need to get on now so visiting is over but x will be in touch. If she kicks up, just remove yourself (and the baby) from the situation.
I have found that being very clear that something is not up for negotiation gives a straight message whereas trying to find reasons why you don't want to do something muddies the water and you can find yourself sounding unreasonable. It doesn't have to be done nastily or loudly. You can even sound apologetic but the bottom line is clear. It takes a bit of getting used to standing your ground if you are not an assertive person but it is powerful.

Madgran77 Tue 06-Dec-22 09:07:10

I spoke to his mum last night about these feelings because shes stressing as they go away for the weekend and have been trying to plan our weekend around them seeing the baby requesting us to be in and I feel chained to my house and I said no I’m not sitting around waiting for you to show up so you can get your fill and leave, your grandson will be here the weekend after you chose to go away thats your problem not mine I'm not chaining myself to my house for a day over the weekend, we need to go shopping and get things done. We ask that you don't come up during the week day evenings due to the bedtime routine he has as its working. we've trialled it once before and it just threw the baby out of sync he got ratty, we got tantrums as you were all fighting over staying late to bath/feed him and he got stressed with you guys passing him around and falling out over him like he’s a toy. I got kept awake all night with a baby cluster feeding out of stress as a result!

And I wish I hadn’t spoken up, it was all about grandmas upset. She never gets this… I'm fed up of having to explain myself or feeling like I cant say no.

Wow, you did so well there Moomoo. But ofcourse the response was all about Grandma's upset, nothing will change overnight, if ever. The key is that they see that their standard emotional blackmail response is NOT going to work either with you or your partner. So when it's all about her upset then the response is "Sorry your upset but our decision still stands". ..and so on.

It's hard when people use emotional blackmail but it is vital to not give in. You don't have to "explain yourself", don't allow yourself to be pulled into that. State what you are doing , what is happening, keep repeating it, whilst acknowledging. " ...upset, but ..."

And standing together both giving the message is generally more powerful than leaving to one alone flowers

MooMoo22 Tue 06-Dec-22 08:12:24

M0nica

I think you said you lived in the UK, so have you discussed this problem with your Health Visitor? I know things have changed a lot, but surely there is a baby clinic of some kind in your area that you can turn to.

An alternative is to see if your surgery has a Psychiatric nurse whom you could get an appointment to speak to. From all that you say, your partner's mother is seriously psychologically disturbed, and a danger to your child.

Would it be possible to set her a timetable, telling her when she can come to your house and when you will go to hers. If she turns up uninvited, do not even let her in or take any notice of her. Once you start parleying with her, you have lost the battle.

I fully understand why you want to deal with this problem in a gentle way but sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind.

I agree with others up there sometimes Im far too nice! Iv had this discussion with my cousin just the morning as were having major beef on my mums side over a cousins wedding and how shes treating the family and I was sort of ok with not being invited but at the same time it really upset me but iv chosen not to say anything I pick my battles wisely if I can help it lol.

I spoke to his mum last night about these feelings because shes stressing as they go away for the weekend and have been trying to plan our weekend around them seeing the baby requesting us to be in and I feel chained to my house and I said no I’m not sitting around waiting for you to show up so you can get your fill and leave, your grandson will be here the weekend after you chose to go away thats your problem not mine I'm not chaining myself to my house for a day over the weekend, we need to go shopping and get things done. We ask that you don't come up during the week day evenings due to the bedtime routine he has as its working. we've trialled it once before and it just threw the baby out of sync he got ratty, we got tantrums as you were all fighting over staying late to bath/feed him and he got stressed with you guys passing him around and falling out over him like he’s a toy. I got kept awake all night with a baby cluster feeding out of stress as a result!

And I wish I hadn’t spoken up, it was all about grandmas upset. She never gets this… I'm fed up of having to explain myself or feeling like I cant say no.

I think I'm gunna leave my partner to deal with her as they have absolutely no respect for me and my feelings so I aren’t telling them jack now lol. My partner can deliver it all 🤣

M0nica Tue 06-Dec-22 07:31:03

I think you said you lived in the UK, so have you discussed this problem with your Health Visitor? I know things have changed a lot, but surely there is a baby clinic of some kind in your area that you can turn to.

An alternative is to see if your surgery has a Psychiatric nurse whom you could get an appointment to speak to. From all that you say, your partner's mother is seriously psychologically disturbed, and a danger to your child.

Would it be possible to set her a timetable, telling her when she can come to your house and when you will go to hers. If she turns up uninvited, do not even let her in or take any notice of her. Once you start parleying with her, you have lost the battle.

I fully understand why you want to deal with this problem in a gentle way but sometimes you need to be cruel to be kind.

Madgran77 Tue 06-Dec-22 07:24:56

The huge issue is you and your partner- why do you allow her to do whatever she wants w/o consequences for her actions?

Hithere asks a good question Moomoo. I would add " Why do you allow others to come out with "lectures" to you about YOUR baby, and you feel upset but do nothing?"

The issue really really is that you and your partner have to stand up, say what's happening with your child, stick to your guns, ignore the sulking, ignore others who are prioritising the wrong issue, keep stating clearly what will happen with your child. None of that has to be done unkindly. You can still acknowledge others views without going along with them

"I know you want a cuddle but he needs his mum now" " He needs a feed so that's me and him then, noone else! " " He is crying. I will take him, he needs a cuddle and a feed." "I know you want him to stay. He's not ready and neither are we." " I know you think he is ready. We don't. There is no point discussing it further"

Clear, no arguing or justifying. Just statements. Dont get dragged in to anything further, just repeat! Leave and go and feed him etc

Good luck [ flowers]

Hithere Tue 06-Dec-22 02:01:10

If a friend confided in you with these same facts, what would you tell her/him?

Your mil is not desperate, she has an unnatural obsession and it is not going to stop till you and your partner stop underreracting and giving her chances to harm your baby.

The huge issue is you and your partner- why do you allow her to do whatever she wants w/o consequences for her actions?

MooMoo22 Mon 05-Dec-22 23:22:10

Madgran77

* ‘he doesn't need his mum, he needs his grandma more she can go feed him she wants a turn…’*

And you shouldn't even hesitate on that one!!

You stand up and you say "No! He DOES want and need his Mum and I will feed him. As you know I am breastfeeding so noone else CAN feed him! And he is NOT a toy to take turns with!"

You then walk out of the room and go and feed him

Never mind worrying about her problems, in this situation your child is the absolute priority. And if other family members are coming out with rubbish like that then the problem is bigger than Grandma! It sounds as well like they are all trying to keep Grandma happy!

She doe s have problems, and it is good to help her but NOT at the expense of your child!

This is where I was going about things tbh!

Iv always been like are we too nice? Are we too soft with her? Why are was walking on thin ice? Is it just me and my partner who have a problem.. I remember going for a walk once left baby with his dad outsidr whilst I used the loo. He said too his mum just watch him a second wanna see if she’s ok as she still pretty rough from the stitches and struggles to get up (was natural labour but I tore in a stupid area!). We came out and they were gone and I nearly dropped to floor. They just waltzed off down the park sauntering about and my MIL was strolling along proud as punch showing him off to some random person who she didn't even know. We never trusted her fully after she did that too us as it freaked us both out!

But we realised last few weeks gone that its not us. Its been her all along. As soon as I said I was pregnant she got angry and really really jealous. She stopped talking about it and refused too engage, I took her too a scan when my partner was at work just to try and get her involved and make her feel comfortable and she eased right up. Came to my baby shower we all had a lovely time.

But I don't know how to say this without it sounding awful… as soon as he arrived it went suddenly to ‘ me, me, me, me, me, grandmas wants x, y & z.. Grandma this, Grandma that’ and all their family would talk about was HER. Not one of them sat as asked how I was feeling, it was about how she felt. I felt so stupid for not saying anything and I finally spoke up after weeks of being shy about it and I snapped and I upset A LOT of people. My partner was trapped initially right in the middle until he started to see things.

Then like I mentioned when he saw his mums desperation this weekend and also last week he noticed how she was clingy. Even my own mum has tried to guide her and be like ‘heyy look, its not always easy to go from mum to GM. BUT you can’t tell your children how to parent their child! Its a wonderful time to be a grandparent its an honour and a priviledge but it is by no means a right for us to do as we please when we please and we have to accept that and respect our childrens boundaries’. It helped for a whole week, we moved too our new house and the little nudges and comments and pushes have started again :/

Hithere Mon 05-Dec-22 22:33:49

Does your mil know she needs help?
Is she open to it?

welbeck Mon 05-Dec-22 22:32:26

you need to stand up for your child.
you have one child, and it's not your MIL.
you are giving far too much attention to her feelings at the expense of your child.
you need to stop being so indulgent of her, before it is too late and you regret not putting your child first, always.

Callistemon21 Mon 05-Dec-22 20:23:07

We know our boundaries

Well, most of the time 😂

Iam64 Mon 05-Dec-22 20:21:49

Callistemon21

MawtheMerrier

Suggest she joins Gransnet.
We’ll put her right smile

Good idea.

We're wise and experienced and know our boundaries.

I’ll join Maw and Callistemon on this one.

Madgran77 Mon 05-Dec-22 19:30:35

* ‘he doesn't need his mum, he needs his grandma more she can go feed him she wants a turn…’*

And you shouldn't even hesitate on that one!!

You stand up and you say "No! He DOES want and need his Mum and I will feed him. As you know I am breastfeeding so noone else CAN feed him! And he is NOT a toy to take turns with!"

You then walk out of the room and go and feed him

Never mind worrying about her problems, in this situation your child is the absolute priority. And if other family members are coming out with rubbish like that then the problem is bigger than Grandma! It sounds as well like they are all trying to keep Grandma happy!

She doe s have problems, and it is good to help her but NOT at the expense of your child!

Summerlove Mon 05-Dec-22 17:50:21

Why are people trying to stop him coming to his mum when he’s so desperately looking for me, It breaks my heart when they ignore his needs and put their own before his :’(

When I was sitting with my child once, my FIL popped over me and took them out of my arms. I was shocked - that is the only excuse I have - I promptly stood up and took the child back. He was moody with me for months - but I couldn't get over the presumption to just take a child out of their mothers arms without asking.

Its one of the few times that I actually did what I wanted rather than sat still wishing I could be brave and take back the baby.

Always, always, always take back the baby if he needs you.

V3ra Mon 05-Dec-22 17:41:33

Why are people trying to stop him coming to his mum when he’s so desperately looking for me, It breaks my heart when they ignore his needs and put their own before his :’(

Well if that's happening you need to be assertive and speak up, take your son back if he needs you, take him home if you need to if you're at theirs, leave the room or tell them it's time they went home if they're at yours.

The longer you allow this to carry on the harder it will be to stop it.
They're not going to change.
You either let them walk all over you or you stand up for yourself and your son.

Like I said in my earlier post, I've been there.

MooMoo22 Mon 05-Dec-22 17:21:33

M0nica

MooMoo2 You are in a dreadful situation. While your MiL is certainly in need of external help, Has it occurred to you that you and your partner might also benefit from the help counselling with a knowledgeable councellor can give as well?

I can see that to an extent you have joined GN so that we may offer a picture of normality and support, but professional support from someone who understands autism and can look dispassionately on the problem might help.

I am with others in saying that I would not risk leaving your child alone with her grandmother, for any period, certainly not when you go back to work.

As you describe her, the birth of her grandchild, has temporally, I hope, affected the balance of her mind and your child is not physically safe with her. I am sure she would never under normal corcumstances ever do your child any harm, but when someone as unbalanced as she currently is, her response to any emergency that may arise, especially if she is the cause of it, cannot be predicted, or relied on and she could, quite unwittingly, do your child physical harm.

It is difficult to know what to advise, short of estrangememt, that no one could want or advise, but I do think a point has been reached where professional help needs to be called in, preferably for her.

Iv often wondered if we all came together and actually helped to get her some PROPER help.

This is the feedback and impartial guidance I was looking for tbh. Its good to have outside advice sometimes as it can help to see if its actually yourself who's a problem or it genuinely is them. It helps to have fresh eyes and ears.

But I fully agree we should definitely look at getting her some help to understand them feelings. I want her to get the help as I know that she needs to hone in on them feelings shes got and shes needs help to explore them!

She was terribly broody when I first came home with the baby and she would cry frequently, at the time I just brushed it off as just excited by probably never saw it as a deeply underlying problem she has. She does comment quite regular about how she remembers things (which is fine its nice to reminisce), but then it turned odd when she was saying things like I miss having a baby, I miss that feeling of breastfeeding and being the only one able to comfort the baby.
Thats where it concerns me at times as I dont want her to feel like she cant be a comfort too him, but she wont get that if she tries to force that from him :/. Its so difficult and so delicate. We do care about her feelings but at times we've had to put her on a stop and just say “look we didn’t have this baby FOR YOU we had him FOR US. He’s not a toy, he’s not a puppy, he’s not a possession. He is our little boy, we cope absolutely fine. We will ask for help if we need but please don’t press it onto us without request as it could be seen as invasive!”. We’ve tried every approach we could, kind, firm, stern, cross, heated, texts/emails… its usually ‘im his grandma I have feelings, noone is taking into consideration what i want to do with him..’, it makes it so so hard to approach her sad.

I asked my partner if she was like this with her brothers children but apparently not! We think she’s got a very deep attachment issue potentially that starts at my partner and she’s struggling to let go of it. We like she includes everybody in events but we dont want every visit to be a family gathering as we see them every week without failure and we dont need everybody there, its intimidating for the baby as he gets passed from person to person. And as someone said yesterday ‘he doesnt need his mum, he needs his Grandma more she can go feed him she wants a turn…’ I was devastated people just ignored his cries! I just thought is that what people really think of him; like he’s a little toy dolly to play with? Why are people trying to stop him coming to his mum when he’s so desperately looking for me, It breaks my heart when they ignore his needs and put their own before his :’(

M0nica Mon 05-Dec-22 13:59:56

MooMoo2 You are in a dreadful situation. While your MiL is certainly in need of external help, Has it occurred to you that you and your partner might also benefit from the help counselling with a knowledgeable councellor can give as well?

I can see that to an extent you have joined GN so that we may offer a picture of normality and support, but professional support from someone who understands autism and can look dispassionately on the problem might help.

I am with others in saying that I would not risk leaving your child alone with her grandmother, for any period, certainly not when you go back to work.

As you describe her, the birth of her grandchild, has temporally, I hope, affected the balance of her mind and your child is not physically safe with her. I am sure she would never under normal corcumstances ever do your child any harm, but when someone as unbalanced as she currently is, her response to any emergency that may arise, especially if she is the cause of it, cannot be predicted, or relied on and she could, quite unwittingly, do your child physical harm.

It is difficult to know what to advise, short of estrangememt, that no one could want or advise, but I do think a point has been reached where professional help needs to be called in, preferably for her.

MooMoo22 Mon 05-Dec-22 13:24:32

Hithere

OP

This child is ebf, that works in your favour now

As soon as your child starts solids, crawling, walking, going to daycare... these issues will be intensified as your child is not 100% dependent on you for sustainance

You need to put what is best for your child first, ignore what others want.
As you feel so pulled to pacify such an unstable person - have you considered therapy?
Partner needs it too

People have been cut off for less

How about xmas, what is the plan?
I bet your mil will call it

Christmas?

Well it was set in stone earlier this year we’d be at my mum and dads; as I worked all christmas last year (xmas eve, xmas day and Boxing day) i worked full 13 hr days without a choice and I missed out completely. So we agreed to see my parents as I was gutted I missed out.

The MIL was disappointed but she knew why we were off to my parents this year. But we’ve said we will visit them in the morning

Hithere Mon 05-Dec-22 12:18:23

OP

This child is ebf, that works in your favour now

As soon as your child starts solids, crawling, walking, going to daycare... these issues will be intensified as your child is not 100% dependent on you for sustainance

You need to put what is best for your child first, ignore what others want.
As you feel so pulled to pacify such an unstable person - have you considered therapy?
Partner needs it too

People have been cut off for less

How about xmas, what is the plan?
I bet your mil will call it

Summerlove Mon 05-Dec-22 12:12:04

It’s normal to feel badly when your choices/actions disappoint somebody.

That doesn’t mean that you are wrong.

For now make firm other arrangements. These can always be changed as time moves on.

As full disclosure- I’m very against family as daycare. It’s the rare family (in my experience) that doesn’t end up with at least one blow up and a bunch of hurt feelings. With your Mil acting the way she is- you are not that family. Give it time and you might be.

MooMoo22 Mon 05-Dec-22 12:06:10

Summerlove

I think warning of kidnapping Is a little extreme, but I understand why someone might say it to get you to give your head a shake.

Your in-laws (both) are choosing to push your boundaries and put their wants above your needs. You have received a lot of good advice about being clear in your expectations for them, and I would imagine that you have done all of that previously. But for now, keep being clear about expectations and remove yourselves every time they cross your very clear and explained boundaries.

I echo V3ra I hope MIL wasn’t your child care plan. If she is, change plans. Immediately. Then tell her.

She was my choice for certain days but the more shes acted out the less I trusted her :/. I hate feeling like that towards her as well as we used to get on well (her conversations about basically she liked bored me to tears don't get me wrong, but I listened because I liked her).

:/ i feel awful!

Summerlove Mon 05-Dec-22 11:56:43

I think warning of kidnapping Is a little extreme, but I understand why someone might say it to get you to give your head a shake.

Your in-laws (both) are choosing to push your boundaries and put their wants above your needs. You have received a lot of good advice about being clear in your expectations for them, and I would imagine that you have done all of that previously. But for now, keep being clear about expectations and remove yourselves every time they cross your very clear and explained boundaries.

I echo V3ra I hope MIL wasn’t your child care plan. If she is, change plans. Immediately. Then tell her.

V3ra Mon 05-Dec-22 11:48:19

I agree with Hithere.

Please don't tell me you're planning that your mother-in-law will be doing the childcare when you go back to work...