SATS grandchildren sitting this week

I sat my 11 plus without knowing anything about it. I was an arny brat and had an itinerant life before 11. In my last junior school year, I had one term in a school in one country, a term in transit between postings when I didn't go to school at all and the last term in an army junior school in another country.

A few weeks into my time at my new school, a teacher came into the classroom and asked if there was anyone in the class who hadn't done their 'Moray House'. 'Please, sir,' I said, 'What is the Moray House?', at which point I was told to go with the teacher.

I and about half a dozen other children were taken into a classroom and sat down to do tests, one english, one verbal reasoning and two maths papers. So I sat down and did them. I had no idea why or what for. A few weeks later my parents got a letter to say I would be going to the army grammar school.

I am sure I did well in this test because no one had even mentioned the tests to me, let aalone got me worried about them. I did the same when my children did entry exams at 11. I bought them some books of papers, of the kind they could expect to get and left them with them. They quite enjoyed doing them, but I didn't make them do them and they didn't have any coaching and probably did much better because they were untroubled. My DGC had parents who were completely laid back over SATs, again the children weren't worried because their parents weren't.

It is the adults in childrens lives that get them worked up and distressed about these tests.

If children are being tested on something, they presumably have to be taught it first. It would be lovely for children to have a happy playful education, with little concentration on learning the basics, but that is what we had at one point. We also had rocketing rates of illiteracy and innumeracy.

At any point in life, learning the basics of anything is a grind and there is no way round it.

When my brother was going to take the 11plus exam my Mum said to him, "Don't worry about the exam, just do your best." His reply to her was "Oh I won't worry about the exam Mum, it's those who want to pass that worry!"
She wished that she had never mentioned anything. ☺😂

Callistemon21

Fleurpepper

More and more time spent on teaching for the tests, and testing, testing, testing- instead of learning. How very sad.

Yes, it's teaching how to pass tests!

Unfortunately, when I was working you had to spend time showing children even where the answers went. They had never been confronted with formal booklets that had dotted lines for the answers.
Unfortunately for her, my SIL worked in the school in a "Better area", down the road. We found out they were giving the children mock SATS and then sending them home for the parents who could be bothered to teach the children themselves. In my school, I don't think some of the parents could have attempted the year 2 tests themselves.
One child always sticks in my mind they went down the papers underlining in a pattern they hadn't a clue what they said and whoever had set the teats hadn't realised it either ,it meant they got top marks.

What a wonderful little poem. I spent most of my career as a University lecturer. Not one of the Russell Group. We had students coming in at all ages as well as the standard 18, plus overseas students. Many who had not performed brilliantly at school learnt that they were good at things that some of the academic ones weren't - such as communication skills, analysis, problem-solving, and sometimes general life experience gave them an edge. I always reckoned (and still believe) that everyone has things to offer that they aren't always aware of till the need arises.

I was always superb at tests (I was told that I scored the highest score in the 11+ in the whole of my county), but in adult life I was not outstanding at all. Let us not give children the impression that tests are the be-all and end-all, because they are not. Happiness is number one.

Gin

I can remember ( long ago though it was) knowing we would have our eleven plus but not when and just sitting it one day with little preparation or angst. I went home and told my mother very excitedly as I had enjoyed it. There were certainly no tears from anyone or home tutoring before the event.

I agree with Monica most children enjoy test if there is no pressure. We had maths and spelling tests every week so it was a normal event. It is Mums and teachers who promote such anxiety though I am sure unintentionally.

A poor girl at my school managed to turn over 2 pages of the 11 plus paper together, and didn’t realise until just before the end.* 🙁
She ended up at the school nobody ever wanted to go to.

It could boast a famous pupil though - Mandy Rice-Davies of the Profumo affair - she who said of some mendacious VIP in the High Court, ‘Well, he would say that, wouldn’t he?’ - and is immortalised in my big fat book of quotations.
A school friend’s mother was a teacher at the school and had taught her.
*I always made a thing of telling dds to make sure they didn’t turn over 2 pages together!

Teachers know their pupils best. SATs are an absurd waste of time and I’d ban all testing before age 16 (if I ever become Education Secretary ha ha).

Progress can still be tracked from Key Stage 1 to Key Stage 2 for the current cohort.
That's not enough though using a very narrow testing scheme.

Fleurpepper

More and more time spent on teaching for the tests, and testing, testing, testing- instead of learning. How very sad.

Yes, it is sad,hut I think until a more effective method is found and implemented, they have to be seen as doing something.

Bizziebe

I agree with mamie and growstuff and yes, SATs as they stand aren't a reliable indicator. For one thing, the data in the results is useless because it doesn't show the progress made by the individual child over the past 7 years. Assessment should be done be every term using a reputable online programme where schools can also compare their pupils with others nationwide. This would pick up on any shortcomings or weaknesses.
The big problem is that this is all very costly in terms of resources and teacher time.

Progress can still be tracked from Key Stage 1 to Key Stage 2 for the current cohort.

I agree with mamie and growstuff and yes, SATs as they stand aren't a reliable indicator. For one thing, the data in the results is useless because it doesn't show the progress made by the individual child over the past 7 years. Assessment should be done be every term using a reputable online programme where schools can also compare their pupils with others nationwide. This would pick up on any shortcomings or weaknesses.
The big problem is that this is all very costly in terms of resources and teacher time.

Gingster
If only I would have had those words to read as I was taking SATS. Never took the tests seriously.
Can you say boring?
USA Gundy

growstuff

Mamie

One of the best pieces of school transition research I was involved in was when Year 7 teachers spent time in Year 6 classrooms. There was always a tendancy for secondary teachers to under-estimate what the children knew and could do and they were forced to raise their expectations as a result.
I think some of the Michael Gove reforms to KS2 SATS were absurd, but I have no problem with much of the content.

I agree with you that secondary schools sometimes underestimate their new problems. Unfortunately, SATs results are not a reliable indicator of what pupils know and can do, which is why secondary schools have their own testing systems. SATs are a waste of time and money, distort the Year 6 curriculum and cause totally unnecessary stress to teachers and pupils.

Which is why getting the secondary teachers into primary classrooms to observe lessons was helpful. The Year 6 teachers then went to observe the children in Year 7.
SATs are not useful for all subjects obviously, but teachers of English and Maths should be able to use the data to identify strengths and weaknesses.

Mamie

One of the best pieces of school transition research I was involved in was when Year 7 teachers spent time in Year 6 classrooms. There was always a tendancy for secondary teachers to under-estimate what the children knew and could do and they were forced to raise their expectations as a result.
I think some of the Michael Gove reforms to KS2 SATS were absurd, but I have no problem with much of the content.

I agree with you that secondary schools sometimes underestimate their new problems. Unfortunately, SATs results are not a reliable indicator of what pupils know and can do, which is why secondary schools have their own testing systems. SATs are a waste of time and money, distort the Year 6 curriculum and cause totally unnecessary stress to teachers and pupils.

Exams and the chance of university give many children without his privileges a chance. Boarding school and two universities are generally only available to a particular class, he is speaking I am afraid from a very particular position in society.

Galaxy

Fogle went to two independent schools, and then university, for many many children education and exams will transform their life chances.

Yes he did - he has also spoken about what a failure he felt at school because he wasn’t academic and struggled with homework etc. Because of this he was packed off to boarding school at 14 and hated it. He had two stabs at University after dropping out from one.
Yes exams can transform lives but that doesn’t mean they’re right for everyone.

There was a very good letter in The Guardian on Wednesday, from an eleven year old, pointing out the stress that the delay of Year 6 SATs had caused to many children. The writer also said that the money spent on what was essentially a big party could have more usefully been sent to food banks. I couldn't agree more.

Wyllow3

Thank goodness for that.

Poor kids, it's their school being tested as much as them and laid on their shoulders.

It's really completely their school being tested, though secondary schools can use them to stream in some subjects. They look at the standard of the initial intake in reception and see how well the school have managed to bring the children up to the expected standard for their age.
It's totally wrong to see it as a pass or fail for a child.

Chardy

growstuff

SATs are a test of the school. They were "sold" to teachers as a diagnostic tool to identify pupils' strengths and weaknesses, but they're nothing of the sort.

Secondary schools don't take much notice of them because they know which primary schools spoon feed their pupils and many do their own testing anyway.

It's time to abolish them completely.

Secondary schools were setting targets based on KS2 results - another stick with which to beat individual teachers.

But I actually came onto this thread to say that I'm hearing Thursday's maths was an awkward test too. As if the current cohort of Y6s haven't been through enough...

Yes, they have.

They've had time out of school during lockdowns, working at home on set homework, completed in a couple of hours. Even having video links with teachers was not the same as a real classroom experience.

Galaxy

Fogle went to two independent schools, and then university, for many many children education and exams will transform their life chances.

Ben Fogle spoke at my daughter`s graduation ceremony at Portsmouth University as he was a past student - I think he was actually Chancellor that year - didn`t seem to have any problems with exams then!!

Fleurpepper

More and more time spent on teaching for the tests, and testing, testing, testing- instead of learning. How very sad.

Yes, it's teaching how to pass tests!

The Animal School: A Fable by George Reavis

Once upon a time, the animals decided they must do something heroic to meet the problems of a “new world” so they organized a school.
They had adopted an activity curriculum consisting of running, climbing, swimming and flying. To make it easier to administer the curriculum, all the animals took all the subjects.
The duck was excellent in swimming. In fact, better than his instructor. But he made only passing grades in flying and was very poor in running. Since he was slow in running, he had to stay after school and also drop swimming in order to practice running. This was kept up until his webbed feet were badly worn and he was only average in swimming.
But average was acceptable in school so nobody worried about that, except the duck.
The rabbit started at the top of the class in running but had a nervous breakdown because of so much makeup work in swimming.
The squirrel was excellent in climbing until he developed frustration in the flying class where his teacher made him start from the ground up instead of the treetop down. He also developed a “Charlie horse” from overexertion and then got a C in climbing and D in running.
The eagle was a problem child and was disciplined severely. In the climbing class, he beat all the others to the top of the tree but insisted on using his own way to get there.
At the end of the year, an abnormal eel that could swim exceedingly well and also run, climb and fly a little had the highest average and was valedictorian.
The prairie dogs stayed out of school and fought the tax levy because the administration would not add digging and burrowing to the curriculum. They apprenticed their children to a badger and later joined the groundhogs and gophers to start a successful private school.

Does this fable have a moral to teach us about SATs?

Galaxy

God the famous people who pontificate on the pointless ness of exams, Jeremy Clarkson does it every year, utterly self indulgent.

Do you mean the multi-millionaire Jeremy Clarkson or the other Jeremy Clarkson who has found it impossible to find a job since he failed his GCEs?

What a lovely poem, and a lovely teacher for sending it to the children.

It is so true.

With reference, in particular, to Mamie's post, I do so agree that teachers quite often under-estimate children's abilities - especially children who are less confident and more reticent.
And children often define themselves according to a teacher's expectations of them - as research has shown.

Fogle went to two independent schools, and then university, for many many children education and exams will transform their life chances.

More and more time spent on teaching for the tests, and testing, testing, testing- instead of learning. How very sad.