Wrap around child care -the child’s voice

Absolutely agree about the NNEB. I qualified as a nursery nurse with this 1969-71 and it was very vigorous exactly as described . Assessed all the way through working in different settings, 2 full days in college each week , long days in placement the other 3 days. 6 hours worth of exams over a whole day at the end it was a coveted well respected qualification.

I worked as a room leader for many years in a nursery when some of the students I assessed/ trained weren’t anything like I expected them to be regarding standard. One student when I asked her to change a soiled napkin said to me “Do I have to” I suggested she needed to get a different job!

Standard of leaving has also increased above inflation.
Funeral costs are a great burden esp if a young person with no assets dies unexpectedly.
The family are faced with a sudden bill of around 10K.
I know of one such locally.
Due to sad circumstances there was a long delay between demise and funeral adding to the costs.

Correction: Standard of Living (not standard of leaving)

Those of us who are older and raised our children until around 1970 enjoyed a time of economic rise. While the overall cost of living has risen significantly since the 1970s, certain factors like the increased cost of
childcare, higher education expenses, and rising housing costs have become particularly burdensome for families in recent decades. The age of economic climb is in decline for the middle class and worse yet for the lower class. Around the world people are being squeezed as never before as the rich fight to maintain the same standard of leaving, creating laws that shift money into their pockets. This is something unprecedented and thus young families cannot live on one income. I have so far helped raise 2 grandkids because of this disparity.
Here's a more detailed look:
Rise of female workforce:
As more women entered the workforce in the late 20th century, the need for childcare grew, leading to higher costs for parents.
Increased childcare costs:
The cost of childcare has risen dramatically, especially in areas with a high demand for quality care.
Higher education costs:
The cost of college tuition and student loan debt has also increased significantly, making it a significant burden for families.
Rising housing costs:
The cost of housing, including both renting and buying, has risen substantially, putting a strain on family budgets.
Increased healthcare costs:
Healthcare premiums and deductibles have also increased, adding to the overall cost of raising children.
Inflation:
Overall inflation has also contributed to the increased cost of everyday items, making it more expensive to raise a family.

They can voice their opinions very clearly. Even before they have the power of speech

escaped

The thing is here, are we expecting the child to voice its opinion (which obviously it can't) at the time, or retrospectively?
We can all be wise after the event, and say decisions were right or wrong, but life is not a rehearsal so there's no second attempts at it.

I don't understand what you mean by writing that children can't voice an opinion. Mine certainly did from a very young age!

Sorry, should say totally agree with OP

Totally agree with you.

I wouldn’t have chosen nursery in 84 and 86 I found a local childminder with children the age abd same school as mine. She had dogs, our children went to swimming and pony riding together. In school hols she did the same activities I did when not at work.
We’ve just had a an invite to her secret 70th birthday party. My girls still hug her call her auntie j if we bump into each other
Nowadays nurseries and child minders follow national guidance but I liked our less organised approach

escaped I think there are ways of giving the child a voice - certainly it would be interesting to hear the retrospective views of our own grown up children who went to nurseries, but there are ways of gaining even very young children’s views from their behaviour.

Social workers have to include ‘the voice of the child’ in assessments of all kinds, and are sometimes supported by other professionals in this. I think that life is so very busy and pressurised for parents that very often they do what they have to do to keep the family functioning. And sadly, in western society the family is just an economic unit. So I think the child’s voice is overlooked in many of these debates.

Very wise.

The other point is that many women did both - were SAHM when their children were very young then went back to work when they started school, bearing in mind that was probably part-time even if they were teaching, because breakfast clubs and after-school clubs are a relatively new phenomenon.

The thing is here, are we expecting the child to voice its opinion (which obviously it can't) at the time, or retrospectively?
We can all be wise after the event, and say decisions were right or wrong, but life is not a rehearsal so there's no second attempts at it.

nightowl

Sorry Allira I’m a very slow typist!

😁 and I'm not a very good one!! I blame the stylus.

Times change and we should not criticise others for being a product of their time or for doing what was the norm at that time.

Incidentally, referring to the child's voice, my DGD hated going to Breakfast Club!!

Sorry Allira I’m a very slow typist!

I expressed reservations about nurseries but I was not a SAHM. I had no choice but to go back to work, although I did make a conscious choice not to pursue advancement in my career. This was the time of Nicola Horlicks telling women they ‘could have it all’ but I was never convinced by that. Hence I never went into management but watched my (very able) husband in the same career go much further than I ever did.

This thread seems to have digressed into the usual discussions about working v. stay at home mums and the pressures parents face. The OP’s title was ‘the child’s voice’ which is not the same thing at all.

We seem to have wandered off the topic of Cambsnan's OP - Wrap around child care -the child’s voice to the usual pointless arguments.
Why not ask children what they think?

The child's voice is what is most important.

M0nica

I would just add, that I had a working mother, she had a working mother, who also had a working mother - and so on ad infinitum. I am descended from good agricultural worker stock in England and Ireland. My mother was the first to have worked by choice rather than from dire necessity.

I am not aware that any of us suffered as a result. My memory is of warm and close mother and child relationships cascading down the generations.

Yes, my mother worked and so did I from when my youngest was six (took a course from when she started school at four).

Yes, it happens every time this topic appears on GN. There is a certain amount of smug superiority from those who chose to stay at home to look after their children because they really don't seem to accept that it isn't the only way to bring up children successfully.

Sorry, but it seems to be the other way round to those of us who may have stayed at home, even for a few years, with our children, that we are somehow intellectually lacking and not worried about climbing the career ladder.
Perhaps you missed those posts.

I think, as Luckygirl said, choice is what is important. You seem to have had no choice like so many of today's parents.

Perhaps it's not age, as I mentioned, perhaps it is when we became mothers. The 1960s and 70s were a different country, where I lived at least. Moving to the metropolis in the 1980s presented a different scenario.

I would just add, that I had a working mother, she had a working mother, who also had a working mother - and so on ad infinitum. I am descended from good agricultural worker stock in England and Ireland. My mother was the first to have worked by choice rather than from dire necessity.

I am not aware that any of us suffered as a result. My memory is of warm and close mother and child relationships cascading down the generations.

Some mother's need to stay at work to protect their careers, but the majority do all kinds of mundane non-'career' jobs just to keep the bills paid and the children fed and clothed.

Allira

Allira

JamesandJon33

My children are 60 and 54. I was a SAHM until they went to school. Then I worked part time. Most of my friends at that time were SAHM too. It was the norm then. But things change. No way is the right way. How can one judge ?

Yes, it was the norm. I think those who are saying they went back to work when their DC were babies may be younger Gransnetters.

And - I worked for ten years before I had a family. I was one of those 'elderly primigravidas'.

I was an elderly primigravida too. I was 37 when my first child was born. I'm not sure what that has to do with it. I'm happy with the decision my husband and I made. We actually separated when my younger child was 3, so had no choice from then on. Both my children attended breakfast and after school clubs until they were 11. And still they turned out to be happy human beings!

Yes, it happens every time this topic appears on GN. There is a certain amount of smug superiority from those who chose to stay at home to look after their children because they really don't seem to accept that it isn't the only way to bring up children successfully.

I’m 76

Allira

JamesandJon33

My children are 60 and 54. I was a SAHM until they went to school. Then I worked part time. Most of my friends at that time were SAHM too. It was the norm then. But things change. No way is the right way. How can one judge ?

Yes, it was the norm. I think those who are saying they went back to work when their DC were babies may be younger Gransnetters.

And - I worked for ten years before I had a family. I was one of those 'elderly primigravidas'.

JamesandJon33

My children are 60 and 54. I was a SAHM until they went to school. Then I worked part time. Most of my friends at that time were SAHM too. It was the norm then. But things change. No way is the right way. How can one judge ?

Yes, it was the norm. I think those who are saying they went back to work when their DC were babies may be younger Gransnetters.

My children are 60 and 54. I was a SAHM until they went to school. Then I worked part time. Most of my friends at that time were SAHM too. It was the norm then. But things change. No way is the right way. How can one judge ?