ADHD, SEN and other problems in children

Recognising additional needs such as neurodiversity is helpful in understanding how to support each child develop into happy confident kind useful adults! Dumping a young child on the neighbours is not helpful unless the neighbour knows the child well, and is able, informed and willing to support that child.

It’s worth knowing that a child with ADHD is likely to need a much higher level of support and direction than a child of the same age without neurodiversity, and may well appear to behave very young for their age.

Iam64

Mollygo yes.

Mamie, I worked with children and families. Until CAMHS became more willing to work along side us, our training focussed on on attachment but we had few inputs on neuro diversity. Blair’s Every Child Matters led to multi disciplinary working which helped children

Yes I remember Every Child Matters, but I had a more senior role by then so wasn't directly involved.
When I was an adviser introducing IT equipment into schools for children with learning and physical disabilities, I had the privilege of working with physiotherapists, speech and occupational therapists, psychologists and teachers from mainstream, special schools and hospital schools. It was wonderful to see children enabled to "speak" for the first time with a voice synthesizer operated by a tiny head movement, children with cerebral palsy integrated into mainstream schools with specialist keyboards etc.
We also supported children with terminal illnesses, which was very hard.
Working in the multi-disciplinary teams was one of the best parts of my career.
It is sad how much funding for innovation and co-operation has been lost in more recent years.

Mollygo yes.

Mamie, I worked with children and families. Until CAMHS became more willing to work along side us, our training focussed on on attachment but we had few inputs on neuro diversity. Blair’s Every Child Matters led to multi disciplinary working which helped children

Your daughter needs to have a word with the mother away from the children and say , that it is not acceptable for them to come around any more as XY behaviour with YX toys and little garden is not acceptable and it is affecting her mental health, even if he has ADHD, he should be corrected and told that isn't the way it's done after all if he isn't taught how to behave he will never learn . Tell try not to use the word sorry as she is protecting her child and there is no need to be sorry for doing that.

Does it worry you that you brought up a daughter who seems unable or unwilling to protect her child? What do you think went wrong?

What an awful accusation.

When we were younger, we were never faced with the expectations that we have today. If we saw a badly behaved child, that’s exactly what we could say.

We didn’t have to worry that others would accuse us of being uncaring about the multitude of labels that have proliferated with the growth of knowledge and the endless quest for reasons.

By the time my DGS with ASC was having meltdowns in cafés or playgrounds, we still expected to deal with the situation to lessen the impact on others. Many abandoned cups of coffee (mine) and ice creams (his) and planned picnics in the park and endless preparatory social stories later, he slowly began to realise that his behaviour had consequences he didn’t like, and understand that the behaviour patterned in the stories was what he should do.
It wasn’t a cure, just management.

Now there is as much if not more censure of people objecting to the sort of behaviour mentioned in the OP as there is of the parents trying to deal with it.

ExDancer

We only have the mother's word that this child has ADHD, and I certainly know very little about these labels. In this case I think the blame lies with the parents who seem to be too lazy or feckless to discipline the little girl.
As for my daughter, the people saying she should grow a stronger backbone and refuse to have the girl in her garden are correct. I hate grandmothers who interfere, but I think its time I did just that.
Time for giving DD a 'good talking to' I think.

Does it worry you that you brought up a daughter who seems unable or unwilling to protect her child? What do you think went wrong?

Mamie

From memory we started significant diagnosis of ADD and then ADHD in the 1980s and the use of Ritalin became more common. I remember thinking that I wished I had known more earlier, so I could have provided better support to children in my classes, who in hindsight had clearly been struggling with the condition.

Significant ADD diagnosis began in 1980. My brother, born in the late 50s, took Ritalin prior to studying and sitting exams. Mum worried he'd not pass NY bar, he did well.

The tablets had horrible side effects, he persevered.

Yes that is my understanding Iam64, maybe 6 at earliest.
Considering waiting lists a child with a diagnosis at 4 would have needed to have been referred at age 3 at the latest.

From memory we started significant diagnosis of ADD and then ADHD in the 1980s and the use of Ritalin became more common. I remember thinking that I wished I had known more earlier, so I could have provided better support to children in my classes, who in hindsight had clearly been struggling with the condition.

I posted earlier, it’s my understanding psychologists won’t assess children for adhd under the age of 7

We only have the mother's word that this child has ADHD, and I certainly know very little about these labels. In this case I think the blame lies with the parents who seem to be too lazy or feckless to discipline the little girl.
As for my daughter, the people saying she should grow a stronger backbone and refuse to have the girl in her garden are correct. I hate grandmothers who interfere, but I think its time I did just that.
Time for giving DD a 'good talking to' I think.

Sarnia

Autism and ADHD are neurodevelopmental disorders.
I have 2 SEND grandchildren. My 16 year old grandson who is autistic and his cousin, my 12 year old granddaughter with dyslexia and autism, have been brought up in the same way as their neurotypical siblings. They know right from wrong, both have lovely manners and know how to behave in any setting, both inside and outside the home.
Your DD needs to keep the door shut to her neighbour. Having ADHD is not a 'Get out of Jail' card for bad behaviour. Her new neighbour would not be having any more cuppas or free child care if I lived next door.
In the 1950's children were deemed 'backward'. There have always been around.

I agree.

I have ADD, though there was no label in the 50's my parents undersood. I was brought up the same way as all my sisters. I was reminded to be still and concentrate, lovely manners were expected and taught.

OP's daughter's consider focusing on the mum, not the child.

I just don't understand how a 4 year old has been diagnosed with adhd, it doesn't fit with any practice that I am aware of. Is this an older child perhaps?

Autism and ADHD are neurodevelopmental disorders.
I have 2 SEND grandchildren. My 16 year old grandson who is autistic and his cousin, my 12 year old granddaughter with dyslexia and autism, have been brought up in the same way as their neurotypical siblings. They know right from wrong, both have lovely manners and know how to behave in any setting, both inside and outside the home.
Your DD needs to keep the door shut to her neighbour. Having ADHD is not a 'Get out of Jail' card for bad behaviour. Her new neighbour would not be having any more cuppas or free child care if I lived next door.
In the 1950's children were deemed 'backward'. There have always been around.

Yes I agree about the alphabet soup! The point I was making really, was that saying "SEN(D) children" in that order defines them with their condition / disability first. For example, people used to say Down's children rather than children with with Down's syndrome.
I am still a bit puzzled by the rationale for adding the D though. As specialist advisers working within SEN provision in our LA, we always worked with children with cerebral palsy, muscular dystrophy, sight, speech, and hearing loss and lots of neurological conditions (as well as dyslexia, dyspraxia) etc.

If some members want to learn more Re the increase in neurodiversity there is a program on Radio 4 at 11.45.

On here possibly, Mamie, but the addition of the final D was intended to include all children who had barriers to learning whether neurological or physical.
We used to use EBD or now, SEMH. I’m almost certain the alphabet soup will increase with the continuing emergence of diagnoses.,

Allsorts

I think there's over diagnosis, jobs for someone, you have a label that's the rest of your life sorted. I don't know a family that hasn't had someone diagnosed.

In what way does a label sort the rest of your life?
I remember my eight year old grandson’s label as helping school and his family to understand some of his behaviours more clearly. This helped him in school particularly. It hasn’t sorted his social anxiety or ensure his high intelligence helped him into a career structure z

Mollygo

Mamie
SEN is the old term which refers to children with special educational needs though not necessarily with disabilities. SEND is
Special Educational Needs and Disabilities includes children who have disabilities.

Special educational needs and disabilities (SEND) can affect a child or young person’s ability to learn. They can affect their:

behaviour or ability to socialise, for example they struggle to make friends

reading and writing, for example because they have dyslexia

ability to understand things
concentration levels, for example because they have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)

physical ability including blindness and deafness, cerebral palsy etc which hampers a child’s ability to learn, but does not necessarily mean they have any of the lettered issues.

The SEND Code of Practice identifies four broad areas of need and support:

Communication and interaction

Cognition and learning

Social, emotional and mental health

Sensory and/or physical needs

www.gov.uk/children-with-special-educational-needs

None of these mean that children should not be taught, or helped to understand that hurting others is wrong if you want the best life for your child, whatever their SEN or D.

Yes I am aware of the change Mollygo. As far as I am concerned SEND is now the title for the service, but all the children involved have a special educational need for modification of their process of learning, whatever their particular condition or disability. Special Educational Needs always included children with physical disabilities when I worked across the whole range of conditions from children with specific learning difficulties to those with profound and multiple disabilities.
I am sure you will agree that it would wrong to refer to "SEND children" as one group.

I think there's over diagnosis, jobs for someone, you have a label that's the rest of your life sorted. I don't know a family that hasn't had someone diagnosed.

Children may be identified at school by age six as struggling to sit, focus, not constantly move about but, in our area they won’t be formally assessed as adhd until age 7
Children do move and fidget, don’t always focus on tasks that don’t interest them, Four year olds who behave as described by the OP really don’t benefit from their bad behaviour being dismissed as the result of adhd

I totally agree with Astitchintime why does your daughter need excuses she needs to say that the child can’t come in and play simple as that
ADHD is not a reason for bad behaviour …bad parenting is

“My daughter's running out of excuses to fob her off.”…………..then your daughter needs to be the responsible adult and say ‘No’. She doesn’t have to give excuses, she doesn’t have to explain……..she simply needs to protect her own child and let the neighbour look after her own child as she seems to think that is everyone else’s responsibility bar hers.
I am not condemning the child with SEN but she is her mother’s responsibility, not your DD’s.
Tell your daughter to communicate with the child’s parents.

Mamie
SEN is the old term which refers to children with special educational needs though not necessarily with disabilities. SEND is
Special Educational Needs and Disabilities includes children who have disabilities.

Special educational needs and disabilities (SEND) can affect a child or young person’s ability to learn. They can affect their:

behaviour or ability to socialise, for example they struggle to make friends

reading and writing, for example because they have dyslexia

ability to understand things
concentration levels, for example because they have attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)

physical ability including blindness and deafness, cerebral palsy etc which hampers a child’s ability to learn, but does not necessarily mean they have any of the lettered issues.

The SEND Code of Practice identifies four broad areas of need and support:

Communication and interaction

Cognition and learning

Social, emotional and mental health

Sensory and/or physical needs

www.gov.uk/children-with-special-educational-needs

None of these mean that children should not be taught, or helped to understand that hurting others is wrong if you want the best life for your child, whatever their SEN or D.

I am appalled by the use of the blanket phrase "SEN children" by some posters.
Children with Special Educational Needs include the neurodivergent, the blind and partially sighted, the Deaf and hard of hearing, those with physical and/or learning disabilities, children with cerebral palsy, children who are seriously or terminally ill and many other conditions that impair the ability to learn.
The language used does matter.