ADHD, SEN and other problems in children

I think young mums are too busy on their phones, tbh. I have watched them, no interaction with the child. So they don’t know how to behave
That’s judgemental and over simplifying Mt61 some parents aren’t attentive , many are , just as always in life there has always been some good parenting and some poor parenting

I would ask again Exdancer why is this little girl allowed to play with your ,grandaughter, why is she allowed in the garden and house Your daughter only has to say no when they arrive on the doorstep or not answer the door
Would I have allowed a child over to play who destroyed my garden and child’s toys and terrified my child, no of course not
It’s all up to your daughter

I think young mums are too busy on their phones, tbh. I have watched them, no interaction with the child. So they don’t know how to behave.

Galaxy

You can't actually believe that.

Galaxy, I was referring to Fartooold's quote above that SEN and autism are an excuse for bad behaviour, and yes I do believe that complex needs should be judged by an expert not a layman. That's my opinion.

You can't actually believe that.

Fartooold

This is so wrong and unacceptable I have 3 with Down Syndrome now adults and they have been brought up to be kind, honest and respectful and are welcomed everywhere. It was not hard we had to be consistent!
I am afraid SEN and autism etc are an excuse for bad behaviour. Sorry if I sound harsh.

What a terrible view on things. None of us should judge other people's children, unless we are an expert in the field.

With the possible exception of autism no neurodivergent problem is on excuse for bad behaviour. We now have four generations of neurodivergent people in our family but bad behaviour whether rudeness, destructiveness or bad manners has never been accepted

Four is young to be diagnosed with ADHD. I would think that because of her boisterous and destructive behaviour a label was sought, when simple but regular correction would have guided her.
School will not tolerate this behaviour but will have the strategies and authority to enable her to develop self-control. It depends on how she responds to them and how she settles in school before her diagnosis is confirmed.

Without the label she'd have learned what her parents bothered to teach her. Nothing magical about it.

I think it was the sunflower incident that set me off. I remember when my own children were little, the little girl next door would call round and all three would play together, 'House' was a favourite game and they'd be Mummy and Daddy and Baby and have tea parties with pretend cups of tea, and pretend bedtime. I'd watch through the kitchen window, but my daughter and visiting Mum supervise by playing 'with' them and drinking tea or coffee outside with the children.
This visiting child, another little girl, seems boisterous and destructive and is never criticised or corrected. I don't know how they missed the destruction of the sunflowers but it seems the first they knew was DGD bursting into floods and telling the other girl she hated her.
The other child was taken home but was not chastised or even made to apologise.
It set me off thinking about these labels and that without this child's 'label' she'd have learned to respect other people's treasures. As it is, she will continue to destroy other people's belongings without learning that its not the way to behave.
I sound old fashioned and unsympathetic, but having an ADHD diagnosis meant she missed a valuable lesson.
(Yes, I see I AM old fashioned.. Sigh!)

I have an adult grandchild with an ASD diagnosis, a younger one with dyslexia and our youngest is ADHD. As well as these diagnosis, each has their own unique personality.
Fortunately schools and parents meet their individual needs as well as possible. Yes, they’re expected to behave within the usual expectations.
As others have said, before inclusion, the majority of SEND children weren’t in mainstream. If they were they were often harshly treated and not given opportunities

These conditions have always been around, they are now recognised. My GC has ADHD and was the most sweet pre schooler- an absolute delight! Problems really came to a head in senior school . His inability to focus in the classroom presented huge problems. They

developed tics ! was often in trouble with teachers. we were very concerned indeed. GCSE s were a disaster! Disappointing as they are bright. Left schol at 16 , went to college. Is now 19 , working and doing well - we are immensely proud and have said so.
ADHD will be different for each child, however it must never be underestimated , it does have a profound effect on behaviour. Having said that , I believe children with ADHD need to know what is expected of them and bad behaviour needs addressing. A child with ADHD will find being reprimanded difficult to deal with ,
so that needs bearing in mind.
I know it's hard for your daughter and GD but it's much harder for the parents of this child! Hopefully as the child matures she will learn to manage her condition - my GC has done just that.
We love them dearly and are very proud of the young adult they now are.

Nothing to do with SEN, that’s just poor behaviour that’s not being called out.

And all those SEN children were about when you were young, but you just didn’t know about them. Also those with the most needs would be in special schools, so you wouldn’t have socialised with them.

My Grandson is very emotionally intelligent. He is friends with a child who is on the spectrum.
Sorry to say I do not like this kid, he is foul mouthed, jealous, spiteful and in my opinion dragging my Grandson down. There is always a reason he behaves badly, oh he is on the spectrum. Yes I appreciate life can be difficult for him but it can for his friends too who put up with his nasty behaviour.
I don't believe in making excuses for this, his behaviour is disgusting, he is perfectly intelligent and needs to be pulled up when hr does wrong.
I know this is harsh, but I worry for my Grandson, I care about him, not his friend and I wish he would get other mates. I keep this to myself, mind my own business and let my daughter deal with it.
I agree that being on the spectrum is hard but if you know the child is disruptive, badly behaved, and in the case of the OP, upsets her Grandchild the parents should stop him going round to people's houses, all children need to be considered not just the neuro diverse.

eazybee
ADHD is being used as an excuse for not correcting the child; good behaviour has to be taught and learned.
With 2 ASC grandchildren and one with an ADHD diagnosis, and years of experience in school, I agree with you.
It hasn’t been easy and it feels like it’s never ending, but if they’re not corrected and taught, what hope is there for their future.

It isn’t good for other children either to be hurt by children with SEND, or to see their behaviour going uncorrected or challenged.

Even young children are understanding e.g. that Robert takes his shoes off because he finds holding his feet soothing in carpet time. They were allowed to try it for themselves, but soon abandoned it because they wasted part of playtime putting their shoes and socks back on.

You can’t use the same tactic when Luca hits out at anyone who he is annoyed with or has a meltdown if he doesn’t get what he wants or finish as quickly as he wants.

Teachers and TAs have had increasing and ongoing training on recognising and dealing with children with these problems.

Sounds like the parent in the OP needs support and training, though she may be like some parents who say to me, “I can’t do anything with him” and yet are reluctant to meet with our Learning Mentor or take up the support the LM is willing to arrange “because she really doesn’t have time.”

What on earth do you mean Peep that seems a nasty thing to say
Grandmabatty I totally agree this is not the chid or any mental health problems it’s down to the parenting

Having ADHD means the child’s brain is often over active however it does not mean the child is necessarily badly behaved That is down to the parents training like every other aspect of growing up
Forget the child has any label, your daughter doesn’t have to have anyone in her garden or house if she’s doesn’t want them. so why is the child allowed in to the garden and house
Your daughter needs to learn to say NO
Yes Exdancer there have always been children with problems but they were not allowed in mainstream school

Don’t forget Exdancer some of the most clever and successful people in the world today are ADHD or Autistic or Dyslexic There are many many famous people with these conditions did you know ? ….google it

Children with SEND are at the school because of inclusive practice which is normal now

Obviously the boy should have not been allowed to pull the heads off the sunflowers and should have had support so he was able to play

Wider spectrum each child is an individual. I work with children that have autism and some are disruptive but others just have some different needs. It all depends. A lot of bad behaviour is put down to something else. Infuriating!

ADHD, autism, ADD, dyslexia, dyspraxia and other diagnosis have always been with us. As psychologists and psychiatrists have learned more, so have teachers, social workers and parents. Hence the increase in diagnosis.

Twenty years ago, I worked in a CAMHS department. The psychiatrist with a special interest in this area ran a clinic each week where he made clinical assessments of boys (it almost always was boys) referred by their GP on the advice of schools. Twenty years earlier they’d have been dismissed as naughty boys with parents who lacked parenting skills, couldn’t set boundaries etc. the age group was largely 7-9 years and on the edge of exclusion. Effective assessment, advice to school and family did help

ADHD is being used as an excuse for not correcting the child; good behaviour has to be taught and learned. It sounds as though she has been allowed to get away with anti-social behaviour because of a diagnosis. This is not acceptable. If the mother brings her round to play then she has to share the supervision and it is clear this is not happening.
Your daughter needs to lay down guidelines, and if they are not observed then she doesn't come to play.
She will be made to observe them at school, so it sounds like feckless parenting.

Why is being a library volunteer the work of the devil, Peep? 🤔

Are the children actually being supervised when in the garden and having behaviour explained?
A library volunteer! As far as I’m concerned that just about says it all. Work of the devil!👿

But I want to say hang on a sec the child described in the OP destroys the veg garden! Even a 2 year old can be told that's not OK, nor is hitting and scratching another child.

Flippin2 I agree. It took a while but my grandson now spontaneously hugs me, I taught him to and he is very pleased and says "I can hug you".

Just to add I completed an Autism Awareness Course as I do voluntary work at our library with children.

Presumably this little girl is also 4 years old. She will in fact have an emotional intelligence age of just 2!! I can understand how you don’t understand her behaviour but as she gets older she will understand more. Both my daughter’s boys are on the spectrum. Aged 11 and 9 they are both bright boys but have emotional intelligence of younger boys. I could sit and cry on a daily basis because of the awful life my daughter and her husband lead. She has no friends anymore because nobody could be bothered to learn about autism/ADHD! I could go on for hours about this but won’t. I just want to say please try and be patient. Please try to understand. It is a very lonely life. And 9 years ago at the age of 59 I was diagnosed with autism so it is not a new ‘thing’ because I was born with it, as was my dad nearly 100 years ago.

I don’t think anyone is saying it is a made up condition, all children have to be taught boundaries. It must be hard having 3 grandchildren with autism.

There are 5 episodes on BBC sounds called. The Autism Curve.
Very informative for those who might want to learn how and why the numbers are going up.