Low vitamin D

Good when I am finding it an interesting topic. One of most lively areas of research at the moment (in terms of the research that does actually have a direct impact on the health choices we might make at least.)
Unlike things like "gene expression" that are fascinating but not directly useful to the grandmother in the street.

I have just posted a blog that Gransnetters might find interesting. It's about feeding of babies in the 1930s and 40s compared to now.

Do feel free to add comments or "follow" (please add comments or follow!)

appealingltoreasonblog.blogspot.co.uk

and here is the link to the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health page on vitamin D from earlier in the week:
www.rcpch.ac.uk/news/rcpch-launches-vitamin-d-campaign

The malt stuff I remember was "Virol." I still like malt extract.

When did they stop routinely giving small children and pregnant women vitamin supplements? I remember I got drops for my elder DS in the early 70s but I can't remember whether my younger DS got them. I remember cod liver oil, sticky disgusting orange juice concentrate and Virol when I was little. We were told in history classes that rickets ('a disease of poverty' ) had been stamped out. But I remember my GP in the 1980s telling me that TB would soon be a disease of the past.

Oh how I hated that malt! [yuk emoticon]

I thought I'd continue our Twitter conversation on here, jess. More space!

What concerns me is the idea that it's not possible to be healthy without supplements. OK, so dark-skinned people in high latitude countries might be expected to have a vitaminD problem. OK, so kids who have been slastered with sun block since birth every time they go outside in sunshine, might be expected to have a deficiency too. OK, so maybe, just maybe, pregnant women need extra vitamins and minerals various, especially if they don't have a particularly healthy diet.

BUT, to say that everyone (even all pregnant women or all children) need vitaminD supplements is flying inthe face of evolution: high latitude peoples have developed pale skin in order to cope with lower levels of sunlight than the tropics get. In the tropics, anyone with any sense spends as much time as possible out of the sun's direct rays, for obvious reasons. I think only very dark-skinned people can cope with fierce sunshine.

The point is, if we are incapable of manufacturing and getting from our food enough vitaminD to see us through the winter months, how have we (the northern peoples) survived and, what's more, increased our populations? Something must be working alright in general terms, not just for a few exceptions.

So there is an increase in rickets? What parts of the population are affected? How many cases? What proportiion of the population? What are their diets and lifestyles like (do they spend their lives mainly indoors)? Endless questions.

This article from patient.co.uk site has plenty of info. It also recommends D supp for all pregnant and BF mothers, plus for children between 6 months and five years.

Makes me wonder how mine managed to be so healthy! Maybe they just played out enough, even in Scotland.

Well we evolved the pale skin bags at a time when clothing and housing was less protective. Ancestors will have been out hunting and gathering most of the time. So we probably get much less UV skin exposure than they did.
And they ate animals that did not live in sheds.
Children play out less these days than they used to. Even on a nice, warm day in the school holidays they don't tend to appear in our park until around tea time.
I don't like the idea either that we need supplements. There is no evidence to encourage their use - apart from this one. Royal Colleges of Doctors tend to be very sceptical about supplements too.
The Chief Medical Officer has also recommended D supplements for over 65s.
I think this drifted Lilygran due to complacency about rickets. It is now returning - brown skinned mums that cover up and maybe eat veggie diets and breastfeed without supplements would be highest risk.
The other thing that has happened is that there has been a realisation that there are vitamin D receptors all over the immune system - which implies that the immune system needs it. There is a mounting body of evidence that it helps to protect against TB for instance. The only case of TB to cross my path (as it were), in recent years was a British Bangladeshi girl. They tend to wear long sleeves, trousers and scarf to do PE.

Agreed about most of what you say, jess, but not about less protective clothing. People with poor housing and poor clothing would simply not have survived in northern climes. Ergo, one or both must have been protective enough to keep people from suffering hypothermia.

Really, the problem is modern stifled lifestyles more than an inability to make enough D or eat the right foods. At least, that's what I think.

So, a suggestion from the health gurus might be: don't go to the gym for your exercise, go for a walk outside and get some sun on your face and arms! But don't be so stupid as to sunbathe.

The ancient black houses, or the stone-built Orkney houses, for instance, were not less protective than modern homes.

Animal skins are extremely effective weather protection, both for their original wearers and human beings!

Most protective hat I ever had (for Norway) was made of muskrat or some such animal. Eskimos managed to keep dry even in kayaks because getting wet was almost instant death.

Yes, we've had effective protective clothing for a loooooong time.

a further thought...

If there isn't enough UV in winter sunshine in Scotland to make VitD, how come there's enough for my blond German friend and her blond son to get badly sunburned walking on Cairngorm and Ben Macdui on snow last winter? I know snow-reflected sunlight in intense, but presumably it's still the UV that does the damage (or makes the vitamin), isn't it?

Altitude = thinner air = less filtering I guess bags, plus what there is gets reflected back up from snow.
Yes you might be right about the clothing. Ice age and all that.
Arctic circle of course they would have got their Vit D from large amounts of fish and animal blubber.

People ate a lot more offal than they do now. Offal is offally good for you and packed with a variety of vitamins. Except polar bear liver. And too much reliance on rabbit is bad for you. The flour, for example, was much more roughly ground and less refined. And the common people always wore less and were out in all weathers. But that doesn't explain why several generations weren't given supplements they have now decided are still needed unless, as JessM says, it was a complacency on the part of the policy-makers.

I've just been diagnosed with deficiency in Vitamin D my reading was 34 - Hubby who's aged 64 and took early retirement, diagnosed with chronic deficiency in Vitamin D, his reading under 10. Both been put on a high dosage for 8 weeks then told to take a daily supplement of 2,500 iu's which I thought seemed high.
Told we'd feel much better soon but I felt OK anyway, swim 30 lengths a week and cycle a couple of miles each way daily to work. I'm 63. Outside a lot as we have an allotment and a large garden.
Anyone else taking this supplement or is it just the latest health thing?

melp1 you may want to start a new thread but - I am prescribed VitD supplements because i have RA. My rheumatologist told me that in random blood tests during February, the vast majority of people in our area will be vitamin D deficient.
I live in the north west. I suspect its true of many areas in the Uk because we have so few sunny days.
No I don't think it's the latest health thing, I think its a serious issue. Low vitamin D can cause all kinds of problems, the main one for me or people with rheumatoid or osteo arthritis is low bone density. I eat a good diet but even so, I take the supplement.

One of the reasons for low Vit D is that nobpody eats offal anymore. We used to have liver and onions once a week.
A lot of nations eat chicken livers but now people are wary of liver thinking it contains too many pesticides etc.

Babies used to be given a Vit B booster dose and that is one thing good about it the body can store it.

Actually Vit D deficiency was probably very common, but of course undiagnosed. Rickets was common, TB was rife, people died younger. To imagine our ancestors were healthy fit people running about the countryside happily enjoying life is a mistake. Yes the human race survived but many people died.
My DIL reports rickets and Vit D deficiency is being found in many middle class children because they have been kept covered in sun cream. The first cases took a long time to diagnose because no-one had seen any before. They are now watching for it.
We are lucky to live in a time when tests can be taken and supplements supplied.

Very interested to read your post melp as DD was diagnosed with chronic vit D deficiency with a reading of 8
This was found amongst a whole raft of tests ordered by a hospital consultant because she was not functioning as well as she used to and was on the verge of total collapse. The consultant gave her 20,000 units daily for 15 days followed by 2,500 daily for three months and now takes 1,000 daily. She is much better but has to pace herself and rest properly. She has always eaten well but food was not doing it for her.

Neurologists on the Vitamin D Council website reckon you can safely take 3 - 4,000 units per day and that in the UK we apparently need to be on 1,000 per day anyway.

Whilst it is best to have medical supervision it seems to depend on budgets as my test result was just one above the 'requires prescribing' level and so was not deemed to be low enough for a prescription despite my ME/CFS and related issues. Our practice has a serious overspend on prescribing and is concentrating on chronic conditions only.
This is fine by me as I am following advice given to DD and am feeling much better for it. I don't want my numbers to go 'chronic' as I reckon it is my health so I will manage it for my benefit as much as I am able to do.

PS I meant to say that I am starting to feel better in myself although I don't have much staying power. I am told that it can take a long time to feel the lack of Vit D and an equally long time to recover. Here's hoping!

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

You can by Vit D supplements cheaply from Boots or any reputable supermarket. Never buy any pills over the Internet, even from Amazon.

In the uk you dont get enough vitamin D from the sun for well over half the year because of our northern latitude. I have got well tanned this year but i am even considering taking cod liver oil in the winter even though I am a vegetarian.
I have frequently been low in this in the winter months.