Vaginal atrophy

Mamie I had heard about the French and their suppositories. However treating conjuntivities with a suppository is mind boggling. We normally put the eye drops right where they are needed.

If you are using a suppository you are surely going to have to use a much bigger dose as the drug would get a bit "lost" as it goes through the system?
What happens if the baby poos straight away?

I have had breakfast!

mamie Same here its ouch!

And does indeed have a nifty little applicator, thankfully.

Vagifem contains oestrodiol a naturally occurring oestrogen.

Mamie The topical cream is called Colpotrophine (promestriene 1%).

Is that Trophicreme, Butty? I have Trophigil. I wonder why the French version has progesterone? The gelules of 350mg have 341 mg of estriol, 0.2 mg of progesterone in a lactobacillus culture and I have three a week. Would be interested to know what is in Vagifem?

Indeed Jess and actually they told me to go to the doctor as soon as I got home when I was in Boots.
Yes pest arises (I like it) and suppositories are popular. They gave us a suppository for my five month old grandaughter when she had conjunctivitis?? (Resisting the temptation to say that in England we don't put medication for our eyes up our bottoms)..
I think it can all be a bit more earthy here, you don't get paper gowns while you wait for a mammogram for example.
I gather that Vagifem has a nifty little applicator, whereas with the French version you just insert them..
Am I putting anyone off their cornflakes?

Mamie I had an appalling allergic reaction to a pessary the doc. gave me here for an infection - nightmare indeed! You have my sympathies.

Once a week I use a little cream with a v. low dose of progesterone in it, which works very well, although a couple of months usage is needed for it to start working effectively. I expect (but don't really know) even this low dosage wouldn't be possible for your friend who's had breast cancer Marelli.

In fact, if you are over 60, the pharmacies in this country won't let you have the Canesten pessary. I was able to get it in NZ.

Don't the French always use pessaries or suppositories in preference to oral medications?

My iPad insisted they were pest arises instead of pessaries? Is it having Freudian spelling slips?

I have read that if you get post menopausal thrush you should not self medicate. This may be because it can be associated with Type 2 diabetes as well as vaginal atrophy. Excess sugar around in the body feeds the little candida devils. So post menopausal thrush should be taken to the doctor.
It is often a "normal" condition in the premenopausal woman, caused by oestrogens over-boosting the sugar content of vaginal secretions. (This is based on: - the slightly acidic balance of healthy vagina relies on lactobacilli using sugar and converting it into lactic acid which in turn creates mild acidity and discourages candida and other microbes. So the body cleverly supplies the lactobacilli with a little extra sugar - it feeds them. But this mechanism only works when there is oestrogen around. In younger women the menstrual cycle and its fluctuating oestrogen levels are linked to thrush - the balance sometimes is not quite right at all times of the cycle)
But it is not "normal" in the post menopause women who are not on HRT.

I had never had thrush before, Jess. I got a canestan tablet and cream in Boots the first time and when I went to the doctor here she was amazed. In France we would never put something in our mouths for vaginal thrush, she said. So pessaries prescribed and I was allergic to some of those.... Nightmare!

Treating the symptoms not the cause Mamie - I think most people find that thrush clears up at the menopause don't they? I seem to remember reading that somewhere and that has certainly been my experience - so if it starts up again its telling you something.

Yes I think that's it Jess. My doctor gave me endless thrush treatments and antibiotics for the UTIs, but I found the menopause matters site, realised what it was and he said, yes that will be it and gave me the gelules. It isn't Vagifem here, though. It took about four months to work properly, but I just use three a week now. The French version has progesterone, oestriol and lacto bactillus in it. I had a dreadful menopause for ten years, so I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

You never know Crimson but the vagifem probably does not smell as yummy.
I think mamie you have highighted the difference between a bit of a shortage of lubrication and a clinical condition that needs treatment.
I just looked it up on the NHS Choices site. Bit of a poor showing on this subject I think. The problems of older women not being taken very seriously maybe?

www.nhsdirect.nhs.uk/FemaleSexualHealthSelfCare/VaginalDryness

However their link to Patient.co.uk provides better info. This is quite a good site I find.
www.patient.co.uk/health/atrophic-vaginitis-vaginal-dryness
Now I have read that I understand that there are :
lubricants for help with intercourse (the runny ones are better than the gels don't we think?)
lubricants for dryness that is causing discomfort - you might not be wanting to have sex, but if you are dry, uncomfortable, itchy etc down below on a regular basis - yes this might be a self help solution. Things like Replens® and Sylk®. Boots also do one. Intrigued that "customers who bought this also bought" ... cucumber eye gel - how does that help?
and if those don't work, and they might not if your vagina really suffering from tissue damage caused by lack of oestrogen then there is the oestrogen cream that actually treats the condition and you can only get from your doctor.
Phew I feel better now. Learned something before breakfast and had a laugh. Thank you Patient.co.uk

In my case I had non-stop thrush and UTIs for months as well as problems with walking and exercise. I think the dose is very low and what they say is that some oestrogen may escape into the system at first, but as the vaginal walls repair, it stays put. I tried all the ordinary lubrication, but it made no difference.

Ana; is that the coconut oil or the vagifem? Because I was thinking that, if my thinning hair was a post menopause thing, then vagifem might help .

My female GP prescibed it straight away it is so uncomfortable you can't "just put up with it."

I joined this club some years ago!

jeni kitty If don't take the vagifem even walking becomes uncomfortable.
I don't worry about anything else these days. I understand that that vagifem is quite low in oestrogens and as it is "topical" most gets to just where it is needed and less gets into the general system than oral HRT does.

Marelli get her to see snother GP it is a really miserable and uncomfortable condition!

Jess LOL me neither!

There is also a French lubricant called "Vieille" which I think means "Old woman" ! It seems very like baby oil.

Is the vaginitis only causing problems with sex? If so there are no hormonal alternatives. The best I found was in France called I think Femmilube!
! My French wasn't up to asking for a lubricant, so some hilarious mime was used in a French chemist's shop.

There was also an offer on samples at some time on GN. Perhaps the participants could offer some helpful advice?

Good as a leave-in overnight conditioner for dry hair too!

I think the issue is that the vagifem contains some oestrogen and that some breast cancers tend to grow more in the presence of oestrogen. I had heard that it contains a lot less than HRT though. The day may come that I will have to make that decision because I have had breast cancer. But in the meantime - yes those lubricant samples were entertaining weren't they. Can we have some more Cari I can't remember which were the best ones.
On a similar theme I have recently acquired a tub of coconut oil from H and Barrett. Some deranged H and B customers eat it because they have got it into their heads it is good for you (mistake, very high in saturates) but as a massage oil it has the huge advantage that it is solid at room temperature and melts at skin temp. So no more worrying about tipping massage oil all over the bed. And it is edible. And smells like Bounty.

I can't take HRT either - have tried all sorts of dosages etc over the years but I get the worst breast pain imaginable, so I gave up on it. The doctor shouldn't write her off like that, there are loads and loads of natural products to try that may help, I received a bumper pack of samples (from GN I think after the Suzy Godson chat?) a while ago, what fun. Anyway have settled on one that suits us perfectly so that + regular activity has overcome any problems related to atrophy symptoms.