Empty Nest Syndrome

jane I think it will get easier for you if he meets somebody and they become a couple. Some of the responsibility will lift.My DD2 feels extra protective of our DGS1 because of his autism.

I took him back to the bus station today and was utterly miserable as the coach drove away. You know you're being daft but can do nothing about it. I found this just now.

www.wikihow.com/Recover-From-Empty-Nest-Syndrome

I've done pretty much everything it suggests, but was mostly cheered up by the thought that it could take 18 months to two years on average before it starts to feel better. So at least I know I'm not alone, because today was tougher than the last time for some reason. Maybe he just wasn't here long enough for me to get fed up with all the extra cooking!

I understand that, you always feel like the main carer, it's hard to let go. DBH used to take DS to London every year to listen to a couple of days of the Proms, I always felt slightly irked even though I didn't particularly want to go!

My ex has an incredible memory and can remember all sorts of events but I can only remember certain things; my daughter making a dolls tea party in the kitchen one day with her teddy bears and my son running back into the house to give me a kiss the day that his dad took him to Disneyland [we were never a kissy family so it meant a lot to me]. For some reason we had some spare money that year and my daughter and I decided that her brother should go to Disneyland while he was still young enough to enjoy it to make up for the money we spent providing her with pony [which we couldn't really afford]. It still seems strange that he went to far away with his dad and I wasn't with them, even though he's travelled all over the world since.

Yes, I agree, those were probably the happiest times of my life too. I would love to be able to cuddle my children on my lap again, have them snuggle up to me. It's a wonderful feeling and I don't feel quite the same with my GCs even though I love them very much - probably just as well. I miss DD dreadfully but would hate to share a house with her again - she did come back home once and we rowed quite a bit. DS and I never argue which is perhaps why I miss him more. They do still need me, DD often comes to me with problems, but I miss everyday family life. DBH is very happy with his own company and has loads of hobbies and often isn't around, although I have friends it really isn't the same. It's taken this to make me realise why some of my friends are so bound up in clubs and charitable works. Adversely, it's presumably why so many men become depressed if they lose their jobs or if they haven't prepared for retirement.

Yes; I think we were so tired all the time when we were young mums we probably didn't appreciate it. I've always said that if I could go back in time for one day it would be to spend a day with my children when they were little. I had my little grandson here yesterday and I got a load of my sons old toys out for him to play with; as we sat there surrounded by toys I pointed out to the S.O. that that was how it had been when my kids were little; toys everywhere with very little housework being done [and wouldn't have had it any other way].

I still have ENS a bit even though my late eldest daughter would have been 40 next year and youngest is 36, left home ten or more years ago and has two of her own. It's weird, because I see them most days but wouldn't want her living at home again, as much as I love her. I think the ENS is more about wanting to put the clock back to when they were my babies and living it all again.

I have some residue of empty nest syndrome left even after 12 years and I think I always will. The funny thing is I really really don't want any of my children back. I always wanted to be a mother. I never really wanted to be anything else. I think it's the being needed and having real purpose is what I miss most. I have a friend ( honest!) and we often discuss this topic. We think it's why we have put on so much weight. 1) because we are no longer running around after children.2) we eat to fill an emotional void. We both have grandchildren, work, husbands, hobbies, other friends, but it's not the same as having a family at home. We know it's a fact of life and as my husband keeps telling me it's our success( we wanted well,happy,independent adult children) but we miss being 'mummy's'. It was fab while it lasted

I was wondering what happened to Dogs4me, maybe she is still around but under a different name, maybe she is happy now?

Ds is currently at home, I hadn't seen him for two months. He came back by National Express for Father's Day (which is more than he did for Mother's day!) and it is lovely to have him back, even though for only a few days. Unfortunately I do still miss him horribly all over again every time he goes back, I get very down and have to hit the St.John's Wort. I think I just miss being needed, as well as missing the good company of a person who thinks the same way as I do in many ways - and we must all know how hard it is to find people like that.

He is appalling at contacting us, I have to make all the running, but Facebook is a huge comfort s I can see when he was last on, so know that he is still alive. I phone him once a week, sometimes h talks for ages, sometimes just grunts, but as soon as he does get home he relaxes and rests and I know he really appreciates being able to slow down and be looked after for a while. This time he was due to go back on Monday, but has extended it to Wednesday, then I shan't see him for another month at least because he is going away with Cambridge OTC. Every time he comes back I discover a whole new raft of things he has got up to, and little ways in which he makes money. It's humbling to realise that he copes far better than I ever thought he would be capable of, despite his appalling memory. His grades are good too!

But Oh how I wish this ENS would just disappear.

It sounds as if he is coping very well, Janerowena, and he sounds a credit to you. You should feel very proud of yourself and of him - I hope you are, though I understand your underlying anxiety for him. I still feel that for both of mine. I guess it goes with the job.

He has only just started, last October, so it's all new to us. He is 18. He is studying music, which is mostly based at west road, but he is all over the place as many courses are shared between not only the colleges but also the two universities, as Anglia Ruskin, who bought quite a few of Cambridges old college buildings, has wonderful facilities, and he wants to do composing for film or gaming. It's rather nice, he now has friends from both unis and today he is off to someone's flat for a jamming session - not something he has ever done before! Many of the lecturers seem to flit between the two, not something that would have happened in the past, I think. With the points system you can accumulate points towards your degree from all over the place.

I asked him about friends and he said that it seems to him that he is fine as long as everything stays relatively superficial, it's when people see him at 'home' that they start to realise that he is a bit different. So he keeps it light and joins lots of clubs and casually asks if anyone is going out that night, sort of in general, if he feels like socialising.

I didn't know he had asperger's until he was 13. I do remember being told by his tutor at his choir school when he was 10 that he was considered rather rude because he never smiled at his teachers and barely acknowledged them if he passed them when crossing the cathedral close. I explained to him why he should smile, and he always remembered to do so after that but it was a while before he stopped doing a sort of grimace, and it became more natural. It reminded me that it used to upset DBH when as a baby, he would smile at me but at no-one else. We worked out that he only ever smiled at people who he knew extremely well, and trusted. So it came naturally, rather than socially. Manners generally were something that had to be taught and explained long before he was diagnosed. He would never think to hold doors open for people, and his school was very hot on manners. His logic was that many of the female staff were bigger and stronger than him, and often weren't carrying as much. Logical but not gentlemanly. Getiing him to step aside for people on pavements was my first task, I reckon he now has manners that are far better than those of most teens. If anything he smiles too much!

That's awful, Tegan - poor lady! Did anyone else have any idea that she was depressed?

Jane - glad you had a good convo with DS. How is he doing? Is he at Cambridge? You mentioned Cambridge and I wondered which college - I used to go to Homerton (when it was a teacher training college though).

And yes, the envy thing is something I struggle with a lot. It used to be feeling envious that other family members had babies with no health problems, whilst we were hit as if with a thunderbolt at DD2's birth - a rare syndrome no one had heard of, undiagnosed until last year. It morphed into feeling envious that other babies were reaching milestones at the 'correct' time whereas our little one was doing her own thing in her own time, with health professionals tutting at her poor weight gain and failure to thrive, diagnosing everything from microcephaly (untrue) to cerebral palsy (also false) and low intelligence (ditto)....In the end I decided she was just herself, a unique and wonderful little girl and I'd have to learn to weather the comparisons and the stares.
Aspergers can be a tricky condition to live with - my nephew has it and I also have a niece with severe autism. My nephew is very bright so he does learn some social skills by observing what other people do, though he has problems with empathy and can appear to be very tactless. I think any parent with a child who has special needs probably finds it harder NOT to worry, especially as they grow up and independence beckons. How long has your son been at university?

I can see why you're so worried now, jane . On the subject of depression there is a lot of talk about it on my racing forums as a lady well known to the racing world has taken her own life. It has opened up a lot of discussion amongst people, which can only be a good thing [and these are male dominated forums where people are opening up and talking about family membersthat have suffered].

I'm sorry you are so low, I have seen that in several posts around the board, but when you think how much time over so many years lots of people have spent worrying and caring and feeling bad it's surprising that anyone doesn't have depression in some form or other. I get SAD and so does DS. which is another thing I shall have to remind him about every year as that seems to get worse with age. It's interesting that you say that bi-polar improves with age, that might cheer my co-grandma up.

As for the envy - at least you know you are being a bit unreasonable, some people never seem to recognise that. It's the maternal thing isn't it - Look at my child! They are wonderful! So why is yours doing better than mine? They must be cheating!' or something along those lines. DBH sees it all the time, as a teacher. and we have learnt to laugh at ourselves as we have thought it ourselves at times over the years, when a part in a play goes to someone else, someone else picked to play a solo in a concert and so on.

I had a rare phone conversation today with DS. As in, it was a conversation rather than just answering questions from me. That cheered me up a lot, sometimes it's lovely to hear his voice but as he doesn't make small talk it's a bit like having a small starter, then having the main meal put in front of you and then someone whipping it away again before you can taste it. The stupid boy forgot to take his painkillers, I knew he would.

Janerowena - I can identify with your feelings so much.
Bi-polar is difficult to live with, but it does improve with age, apparently - if that is any comfort. I have a bi-polar friend who is much more stable now and able to lead a fulfilling life. But any mental health problem can be extremely hard for the family concerned. I've been on both sides - as a carer and now a sufferer.
It has been a long, difficult journey for us as a family, and it's not over yet. It's further complicated because I cope less well now when life is easier than I did when it wasn't! My mind is really letting me down badly right now.

Our older DD is, as I said before, single - and she would love a relationship and a family before it's too late (she's 33 soon). She is loving, caring and thoughtful, and I am so hoping someone realises just how lovely she is, soon. My anxiety was further intensified recently at the news that the daughter of a friend of mine, also in her 30s, has now found a lovely new relationship - and to my shame, far from feeling happy for her, I feel awful - I am struggling to feel anything positive. That doesn't make any sense at all and believe me, I am deeply ashamed of feeling like that. My friend's daughter deserves to have a good life as much as anyone, but my emotions seem to feel otherwise - feeling envy is far from pleasant.
I guess many of us have painful feelings, but I've yet to find anyone who felt remotely as I do.

There is plenty of time for your son to find someone to love and who loves him - don't give up hoping. XXX

Unfortunately tegan my son isn't close to his flatmates, one of them tried to bully him. His differences were spotted quickly but he won't ever explain himself as of course he feels that he is just like everyone else. We sorted out how to deal with it, and I had many sleepless nights over that one, and it worked, but he will never be close to his current flatmates. Hopefully he will have better luck next year. The only flatmate he liked had to move out this month because he gambled away his loan! However he does have nice friends on his course and also from other Cambridge campuses that he has met through joining the officers training corps. Unfortunately, he hasn't a clue if a girl likes him. He is very goodlooking and I have seen girls looking at him and asked who they are, but he just says 'That's so-and-so. She's a friend'. I need one to come along and drag him by the hair into her cave.

You must have had more then your share of worries over the years, rowantree. My daughter's SiL is bi-polar and she lived with her MiL and SiL for a short time while they waited for their house to be finalised. She said that at least once a month an ambulance would have to be called as the SiL once feeling better would always stop taking the tablets. She has a flat of her own but frequently returns home. Sadly she has never found anyone nice, although she is very pretty. Goodness, the whole garden just swayed sideways then... It's a bit windy!

Rowantree your very insightful. I found your post very helpful and this isn't my thread (or whatever the techno phrase is)

jane; if your son's flatmates are anything like the ones my son had at uni he'll be fine. When, a few years later my son had a relationship that went pear shaped, they were still there for him, even though they'd all moved to different parts of the country. And my ex 's best friends are still his mates from uni. Mind you, I remember chatting to my son on the phone one Sunday and he seemed such a long way away; I could hear a church bell ringing in the background and I couldn't quite get my head round the fact he wasn't nearby.

Janerowena, though I don't know exactly how you are feeling, I can recognise much of what you describe. My younger daughter was born with a rare syndrome and also has mental health problems. For years I worried that she wouldn't ever find a partner to love her and was desperately worried about her being lonely. She was bullied at school because of her disability and really struggled - then went through a series of terrible partnerships with unsuitable and in some cases dangerous men before meeting the lovely man she is now with. He saw past the disability and mental health issues, has seen her at her worst and STILL loves her very much. They now have a beautiful baby daughter. DD has lots of health problems but her partner is very supportive and I am so happy for her. My worry now is that her elder sister is single and I am worrying myself silly about her! But my message is - don't assume that because your son has Aspergers, he won't find a partner. There are special people out there who can see past the obvious - and I hope your son meets one of them But I can completely understand your anxiety. I've been there too. It sucks!

Thank you rowantree. I worry more than most because he is highly intelligent but has slight asperger's and bad short-term memory, so it's a bit like soemone with early signs of dementia at times, although you wouldn't notice unless you knew him well. Thankfully he has an excellent sense of humour, but has no idea how to read people's faces. So there is always the worry for me that he will never find a partner and will end up back at home and really, deep-down, I don't want that for him at all as he will be so lonely and we won't be around for ever.

I wouldn't want mine to come home (other than to visit), even though I miss their company loads. And they wouldn't want that either! But I do get very envious of those who still have their children with them. My brother's sons still live at home - the elder son hasn't found a job (in law) and seems happy still living with his parents, and the younger is at university but living at home because he prefers it that way. Our daughters WANTED to live away from home - part of me feels a sense of rejection but another part recognises that this is the natural process of gnawing through the umbilical cord that children do as they grow up and away. I know they love us and I do try not to play the 'needy' mum, but I find there are times I feel jealous if they spend time with other family members when we aren't there. I hide it as best I can because I recognise that it is my problem, not theirs, and I need to work through it somehow. But there's no denying that it's a painful process! Just allow yourself to feel the sadness, janerowena, and the loss - it's something we will all experience to some degree. And we desperately want to know our children are OK, that they are coping, and are happy. I know that if I sense there's something wrong, I feel compelled to try and help - an urge I have to force myself to feel but NOT act on, unless they actually ask for help or support (which doesn't happen often). So what I'm saying is, don't judge yourself for feeling as you do. It's neither good nor bad - it just IS. Go with it, for now; allow it to work itself through. It will change in time, and your sadness will ease. Hugs to you X

I started having all those feeling while he was still here, rowantree, so I knew I would be a lost cause. I felt very depressed throughout his past year at school, which is a lovely one. I helped out quite a bit there too, so I have lost that as well, I feel as if I have been made redundant after 29 years of parenting. Still, I try to tell myself that I was lucky to have had a child around and at home for as long as I have, but I do wish my GCs lived nearer.

All the time this past week I have been showing my son how to pay his bills online, telling him to register with a doctor, teaching him a bit more about cooking, I have been smiling but inside I have been shouting No, stay with me safely at home! Yesterday I had to phone him and he was feeling a bit lonely and homesick, as none of his flatmates were back, it was so hard not to get in the car and drive there, which would have been ridiculous! He is normally happy with his own company so I knew he really must be feeling a bit low.

And yes, this morning the last of his dirty laundry went into the machine and I found myself hugging it. Because when I look at my children, I see them superimposed on top of all their past selves, right down to small toddlers.

It's lovely to know that there are others as sad as I am, even if it's not a good thing, because my best friend has four daughters and the age range is the same as for mine, 29 to 18, and she can't get rid of them! Two moved to be nraby and she looks after her GCs, 1 at uni farther away and 1 at uni still living at home. A quiet family day out turns into a circus.

Firstly - roseofmyheart - thinking of you in this anniversary...Pauline sounds like a truly wonderful lady and so dearly loved - with good reason. Nothing can take away those memories, though they are tinged with sadness. Hugs to you. Everyone should have a Pauline! X

roseofmyheart and others - can really identify with the ENS! It's years since our two headed off to university. They both went to university far from home so they would get different experiences and also wouldn't be tempted to rush home if things got grim (and they did, spectacularly for DD2 with her severe mental health problems, self harm and suicide attempts - we nearly lost her on more than one occasion). They both did MAs; both went travelling (not together!), returning home for short periods in between but both aiming to live independently from us as soon as possible.
Each time either of them went away, for a few days I felt bereft: I'd sit in their empty bedroom, sometimes crying, sometimes aching with longing, trying to take comfort from the leftover detritus, the smell, the memories.
It didn't last long each time, and I knew that independence was what we'd wanted for them - it was a perfectly natural progression in life and I wouldn't have had it any other way, even though I missed them being around.
However, it's gradually contributed to my ongoing depression and anxiety - there is still a sense of loss of what was, amazement of how short that family life period truly is. I am now into a new phase of being a grandparent for the first time (since August) and coping with all the joys and difficulties that brings in its wake. I still mourn my loss of role, if I'm honest, and because of anxiety and depression issues I don't find it easy to throw myself into other activities, though I have tried and am still doing so. I joined U3a and a few years back took classes in philosophy and Russian, though I ultimately decided to give those up. I am hoping to join the Gardening group, I go to a Meditation group once a month and Pilates class weekly and DH and I go out during the week for a walk or to visit a National Trust property or nature reserve. I find that going out somewhere helps distract from negative thoughts and rumination.
I'm glad to have joined Gransnet too as it's so helpful to share thoughts and feelings, both positive and negative, knowing that there is someone to listen and to send mutual hugs over the ether!

Very true roses. We evolve as 'different' people all through life. I coped quite well with the ENS. Luckily, my youngest DD kept returning! DD2 went to Australia when she was 21 and didn't come back - that took some getting used to and now I am finding myself again since being widowed. I feel totally different and in a completely different place. It's just something you have to deal with as and when it happens.

annodomimi is right of course, we were people before we were Mothers.
But can we be the same people, once we have been Mothers?The answer is no. So, we have to take time to get to know ourselves as we are now.However, janerowena I do understand, as my son was just lovely too, I really liked having him around to talk to.He was interested in subjects that my DH wasn't, so when he went to uni. I missed him, then he went to work in the North, then he came back here and got married.Now he has his own family, which is as it should be.We have to learn to be ourselves, which sounds like New Age nonsense, but isn't.It takes time.We have been selfless for so long with our families, and now we don't need to be [not to the same extent.]We should not panic at the void, and not rush to join everything going, but take time to think what do we like now? What will interest us?Take life easy a bit.