Too posh to wash?

Lack of compassion, Orca ? Have you not been reading other threads about nursing care?

Why are you complaining about people who want to know exactly what the RCN had said about these proposals? It is always a good thing to see the primary source of a subject, and not rely on second, third, or fourth hand reports.

They do not like the idea of adding a year of pre-training to the training course. That is not saying that no-one should DO the basic care that the pre-training would teach to those who do not realise already that is a part of the job.

Nitpicking? Don't think so.

I am so divided on this one. I do think nurses should be willing to do just that - nurse, which would include the things mentioned in the OP, but I can also see that they have to be qualified in quite a different way to how they were forty or fifty years ago. I wouldn't want them spending too much time doing the mundane tasks though as this would be a waste after their expensive training.

In all, I think a while spent on the "shop floor", just so they know what it is all about, can only be good. After that, well they need more support staff.

One of the bees in my bonnet is the amount of money spent on agency nurses. I always feel if someone did the sums they would find that higher pay for nurses would cut the need for cover for sickness. There often seems to be less absenteeism with a higher pay grade. And bring back SENs for people who like nursing but don't like exams

I caught an item on the radio about this subject and was surprised to hear that the average age of students applying for the nursing degree was 29 which suggests to me that they don't enter the profession lightly and that they have a good deal of life - possibly ever caring - experience.

I'm afraid nurses have one of the worst attendance rates of any employment sector. The figures are dramatically varied between industries and working situations. Public sector much higher absence from work than private. Health and education top the list. Hence a lot of the money spent on agency work. Also frozen recruitment budgets. There are frighteningly few nursing vacancies in the NHS if you go and look.

JessM

Oddly enough my daughter's who are NHS nurses and son's who are dentists had several sick days when they started work.
I think they became immune to various things around within about 2 years of starting work.
Their friends were the same.
Unfortunately I was visiting a patient in hospital once and I saw a man attack a nurse. Another man was at the opposite end of the corridor.
It was a long corridor and it took us about half a minute to get to the nurse to get the situation under control.
By that time the nurse had been injured and I know she was taken down to A and E so working time was obviously lost.
I don't know if she lost working time in terms of days.
Later I found the man had a mental health problem.
As we all know nurses have to contend with drunks etc and the occasional injury will happen.
I can remember going in to A and E one Saturday and I think I was the only one who had not been drinking and the drunks started picking on me.
A security man came and took me for my treatment and lead me through several corridors to avoid taking me back through the waiting room.
He was hit by one of the drunks and I am sure the same must happen to nurses.
My daughters have been attacked but fortunately they only had a few scratches.

Frank

My sister-in-law is a nurse, and had quite a few weeks of just washing and caring for patients. But alongside people like her, why don't they use the auxiliary nurses to do most of the washing and cleaning? Or have they cut right back on them?
She specialises in mental health patients because her mother is schizophrenic, and she wants to make sure that she trains nurses up properly to be kind to people who may not realise what they are doing. She has said that she has been more scared by the attitude of some of the people coming into nursing than by the patients. She has a reputation now as a whistleblower and has had to move hospitals a few times, but if I ever get a mental health problem I really hope that I am cared for by someone like her.

Jess. I wonder if some of the high sickness problems for nurses might be due to being much more careful about not passing on bugs, which in another working environment would not be a problem. Don't risk your vague tummy bug or bad cold near a sick patient.

Thank you Greatnan for putting into words my own thoughts, I was perhaps being too polite. I will apologise to you though as I obviously haven't read the GN guidelines which say I have to have experience of nursing before I am allowed to comment. I didn't realise you were a retired nurse...or teacher perhaps? However, I have no problem with the teaching profession (though I think you digress here) as I do know how their workload has increased over the years. Does university lecturing allow me to comment on this perhaps?
Elegran if these two posters wish to know exactly what the RCN said they surely have the ability to google the site? Nitpicking yes, as they chose to home in on one word, and ignored the other issues raised...such as that I have personal experience of the poor standard of nursing care at Stafford. Neither of them chose to pick up on that did they? That is the reason I was in the Midlands over the Easter break, to attend the inquest of a dear friend, who was herself a nurse. Some people might remember I invited Frank to meet me for a cappuccino and muffin while I was in the area? Sadly he never took me up on the invite.

Another worry I have is seeing nurses wandering round the supermarket in their uniforms. If they are floundering around in excrement and other bodily fluids they should not be in contact with the public and equally they shouldn't be bringing in the flu etc into the hospital with them .the RCN never seems to contemplate this. In the "olden days"the laundry in hospital had machines with soiled laundry in one side and clean laundry out the other side and never the twain should meet. Now it's all in the same room.

Orca, I am afraid I find several of your comments very impolite. I think you are sailing very close to the wind. We have been very tolerant up to now, but I think some people are beginning to dislike your arrogant, lecturing attitude.
Perhaps you have assumed that we are just a bunch of old women who had never held down professional jobs. I can assure you that both jess and nellie are highly intelligent women. We have people from all walks of life on this forum, including medical professionals, lecturers, teachers, retired probation officers, owners of successful businesses and social workers.
It is a bit rich to tell people to google a reference which you have made without attribution. And it is certainly not nit-picking to ask you to give your source.
And no, university lecturing does not make you an expert on classroom teaching.

I agree that it would be better if nurses changed at work and their uniform was laundered for them and I am sure most of them would welcome such a service.
Doctors were apparently found to be a source of infection because they did not always wash their hands between patients and sometimes their suits or shirt sleeves were not sufficiently clean. I know some now wear arm bands to keep their sleeves away from the patient.
I wonder how many patients have the courage to ask a doctor if he has washed his hands before treating them!

Particularly when that vague reference goes to the heart of the discussion.

especially for you ORCA .

I have direct experience of nurses wasting time rather than looking after their patients. I am sure however that there are other cases where they are understaffed. Each of us can only speak from our own expereince. I do think that nurses, however well trained, should not think that any hospital task is beneath them. The patient should always come first.

At risk of deviation, wasn't there a recent ruling that doctors had to have short sleeves on the wards? Some of them made a bit of a fuss and I don't know if it came into force.

I really don't care what you think of me and my remarks Greatnan though I do find it interesting that you think you speak on behalf of 'some people'. If we are going to nitpick perhaps you'd care to inform me what exactly you and 'some people' find offensive?
I gather that you consider yourself something of a 'Grande Dame' of GN or so 'some people' have told me.
I frequently sail 'close to the wind' but more usually in the actual sense than in the sense you mean.
If I can offer some advice it would be not to actually put it into writing that you consider I have been tolerated 'up until now' some people (?) might think you sound as if you are threatening me with ??!!!
And I love your final remark...how on earth did you find the willpower not to add 'so there!' at the end

D'you know I have a great respect for woman professional or otherwise.

Thanks Nonu

Is that the royal we , greatnan ?

I was a nurse many years ago. We started our training with 3 months in the Preliminary Training School (PTS) where we learned bed making, washing, lifting and feeding patients etc. and then went onto the wards for 3 years. We attended lectures every week back in the PTS. We were never allowed out in our uniforms, which seems to be the norm these days

Good to see you support Orca, Nonu. I think I can guess who has been saying nasty things about me in pms. The usual suspects! And of course, there is no clique involved!

Orca, it is against forum etiquette to make personal attacks on a member, rather than on their posts. All I am 'threatening' you with is being reported to GNHQ.
.

Interesting point Nonu it takes a woman's brain to pick up on that one
Yes Great who are we????
(With apologies to pedants ...I don't know why but that sounds very ungrammatical.)

Please explain ....what personal attack?

So you think women's brains work differently, do you, Orca.
Perhaps an apology for your personal attack on me is in order?

I gather that you consider yourself something of a 'Grande Dame' of GN or so 'some people' have told me.

I find that remark offensive and untrue.