Bach flower "remedies" no longer licences.

Good heavens. I'm agreeing with jings again.
No problem with therapeutic massage. Can relax people and reduce stress hormones etc.
Peddling water or little bottles of alcohol and claiming they are medicines. How can that be anything but fraudulent?

nightowl! Come on! At least the drugs companies, most of the time, produce drugs really beneficial to the human race.

And, in any case, two wrongs don't make a right.

I have only read of his work durhamjen, never tried the Australian essences

I agree Jess. My sister is a fan of Bach remedies, I asked her once why she didn't just have a nip of Brandy and she became indignant that it was the special properties of the flowers used ... Yes poppycock

Yes jingl I agree the drug companies do produce drugs that are of benefit to the human race. We are fortunate to live in an age where so many treatments are available. But if we are talking 'fat cats' where do I begin? There is plenty of evidence of the drug companies' levels of corruption, power, influence over doctors, stranglehold on research, etc etc. As Anniebach said above, I fear the drug companies far more than companies that produce homeopathic remedies.

Oh ok then. Drug companies are bad. So we must love everyone else. [shrug]

The drug companies saved my life on at least two occasions within the last ten years. I very much doubt that I would be alive and kicking and wasting time on the computer had I treated myself with herbal remedies. Just saying...

No one is suggesting using alternative medicine for trearing life-threatening medical problems. Anyone who would do so is taking a huge risk.

If you are determined to misinterpret what I say jingl then go ahead.

I'm not trying to misinterpret anything.

What I mean is, yes, there are bad things to be found in the drugs industry, but that can't make selling this -- cr-- junk as something to help emotional distress, right. Or making money out of same.

That's all I mean.

Ok jingl

I don't think it's crap, but I accept that some people do. Not worth falling out about.

Oh no! Definitely not.

What defeats me is why we should believe that the random idea of a sensitive chap in the 1930s who was having a bit of a beauties of nature high: "surely the dew on the flowers must somehow be imbued with their beauty and surely a drop of it will lift your spirits" - should result in a "remedy" based on that idea, which would actually have any value.

And yet we all accept sub-atomic particles.

I don't quite see the connection.

Pity about that Jingl because there is one.

Ok. Let's have it then.

Sweet Jingl I have neither the time nor the inclination to give you a lecture on sub-atomic particles. You either believe in them or not. Instead can I refer you to Steven Hawking's 'A Brief History of Time', though there are others available this is by far the most readable

Of course I believe in sub-atomic particles! I just don't see the connection to Bach Flower Remedies.

Sweetest Aka. sickly

I do actually have that book on my bookshelf. Gave it to DD when she was at Cambridge. For some reason she has never taken it away with her.

I actually tried to read it once!!!! (didn't get far - did anybody???)

I even tried to read a book which explained "A brief history of time" simply to non-experts. I didn't get to the end of the first chapter.

I wouldn't say subatomic particles are quite the same as the dew on the flowers.

JessM, where did you get the belief that 'you should believe ' ?

Sorry but I am always amused by the 'when he/she was at Oxbridge, , and this not an unkind comment, just curious why university isn't said

Some people believe that there is a god!

Briefly let me explain my thinking. All matter, whether solid, liquid or gas, is made up from tiny particles. Hydrogen is atomic number 1 and consists of a centre proton with one electron circling it (in the way the moon circles the earth but held by an electrical changes). Helium is atomic number 2. It has a core (nucleus) of 2 protons and two neutrons and an outer shell of two electrons. This is quite a stable structure because the 2 posive charges of the protons balance the two negative charges of the electrons. And so it goes on.
The next element is Lithium atomic number 3 and it has 4 neutrons and three positively charged protons in its nucleus and three negatively charged electrons BUT of these electrons two are in the inner shell/orbit and the other is all by itself in an outer orbit. This makes Lithium very reactive as that poor little electron all by itself in the outer orbit is lonely and looking for company, as it were, and therefore will happily join with other atoms to make a compound.

And so it goes on. As each element in the periodic tables is progressively bigger and has more neutrons and protons in its nucleus and more electrons orbiting. These three particles, because they are smaller than the atom are therefore subatomic.

Now in addition to these three basic subatomic particles have been discovered even smaller subatomic particles. I really don't want to go there but they do exist.

Now my point is. The chemistry and physics involved in chemical reactions is complicated. For instance water is H2O, hydrogen peroxide is the addition of another atom of oxygen to form H2O2. Not simple as it looks. Compounds found in flowers are extremely complex. The idea behind homeopathy and Bach rescue remedies are that these complex compounds dissolved in water, alcohol, etc to the nth degree still contain some 'memory' of their original compound. This is patently ridiculous but they could easily still contain some subatomic particle from that original compound, iin fact it's quite likely.

So though I may not use these products myself (except for the time Thuga cured my verucca but that could be a coincidence) I would not completely dismiss them by saying they retain no trace of the oroginal compound as testing at this subatomic level is not feasible.

You did ask!