It's back: Morning Depression feeling...and worse

rowan how does your MiL act towards others when you are not there? I ask because it always made me angry that no matter what I did for my mother she never said thank you - she actually said that it was no more than I ought to do! She would talk continually about how well my brother was doing, how wonderful his children were etc. etc. etc.

She then moved to Australia to live with my brother and when I went to visit and had a chance to talk with my brother he said that it did get a bit wearing that my mother was always telling him how successful my DH and I were, what a lovely house we had, how much we did for her etc. etc. etc!!

Do you think your MiL may be the same? All these years she may have been telling everyone how well you coped with the difficult births, how wonderful you were with your daughters etc.

Perhaps when things get a bit trying for you during the visit you could "zone out" (I used to do this with my mother and she would chatter on completely unaware that I wasn't listening!), or after making the usual ooh ahh noises offer to go and make a cup of tea (or something stronger if she has it!), and while you are out of the room try a few relaxation techniques, take some deep breaths, clear your mind and just concentrate on your breathing and count backwards from 300 until you feel calmer.

Again, try to be kind to yourself - as I said before if you were the terrible person you think you are then none of this would bother you

The thing is baubles is that you can only take so much of listening to how fantastic someone else's life is. I had a friend for almost 30 years. She bragged continuously about how wonderful her life was (compared to mine) how fantastic her house was (compared to mine) how well paid her husbands job was (compared to mine) how exotic her holidays were (compared to mine) etc........ To be honest whenever we met I always returned home feeling deflated, inadequate and in a black mood. My DH picked up on this and it became apparent that she absolutely thrived on my misfortune. She needed me to make her life better ! Although our friendship never ended "officially" and words were never spoken. I just became unavailable and the message sunk in. We now say hello and send each other Christmas cards but thats it and I do feel better for it.

Rowantree as someone who has harboured murderous thoughts in the past I really do feel for you. These thoughts are horrible, if only there was an off switch.

My own MIL used to come to me every Boxing Day and spend the day telling me what a wonderful time she had had at her daughter's house the previous day, what a fabulous meal they had had, how beautiful her house was looking, what marvellous entertainment she had provided - to the point where I wasn't sure which one of them I hated most

That's just one example. I was also guilty of thinking that 'everyone else' was happier than I was and was having a better life.

I've had periods of depression throughout my life from an early age. CBT eventually helped me and I am now coping without treatment.

Please try to be kind to yourself, no one knows what goes on in other peoples' minds and as my grandmother used to say 'you can't be hung for your thoughts'.

I do hope you manage to appeal and get further help.

KAtyK, I don't take Mail on Sunday but many thanks for the heads-up - I will see if I can find the article online or google it. I have a book about compassion, but find it difficult to apply it to myself because - well, I don't feel I deserve it.

I am dreading visiting MIL next Sunday. I have to go because otherwise DH will have to explain why I'm not there, which will be extremely difficult as we always visit together. I know she will want to talk about her new great-grandchild and I am dreading her wanting to Skype her granddaughter, with our help, and see the baby. I just can't face it and really don't know how I will cope with the awful feelings of resentment, jealousy (of what? I wish I knew!), bitterness and wanting to hide and pretend it's not happening.
This granddaughter was born a few months before my own DD2 and whereas her birth was trouble-free, DD2s was far from it - as I've said on more than one occasion. Being born with a rare syndrome, she was a late developer and we were worried sick for the first two years of her life, fearing for her future, not knowing whether she was going to be mentally affected or not. But all that was about 30 years ago, and I should be over all that by now. Instead, I still feel deep resentment towards my sister in law (who never offered an ounce of sympathy or support when DD2 was a baby and never asks about either of our daughters now). I OUGHT to be the generous one and let the pain and hurt go, but I can't. I feel like a small spoilt child who doesn't want others to be happy because it takes something away from me (illogical in the extreme!) I can't claim that all my problems are because of DD2's birth and the problems arising from it; but it certainly didn't help, and I felt and still feel a strong, overwhelming sense of failure and inadequacy as a mother and as a human being.
It's probably far too late now to expect to ever feel differently or to have any relief from all of this, but I am still trying. I can't see my psychiatrist till mid June, after our holiday, to discuss what happens now that my referral for further therapy has been rejected. I guess that nothing will happen and that from now on, I am on my own. I'm simply not considered unwell enough to merit any further help

Rowan I don't know if you take the Mail on Sunday but there is an interesting article in it today about a lady who was helped enormously with her anxiety and overwhelming negative thoughts and feelings by something called Compassion Focused Therapy. It seems that it tackles self-criticism and replaces it with kindness (to yourself). It may be worth Google-ing it if you haven't heard of it already. Apologies if someone else has mentioned this.

I'll book my place in that line now, then, Rowan, for all the wicked thoughts I have about my MiL, stepmother and various 'friends'; for all the times envy and jealousy have gnawed away at my soul; for every time I've been sure everyone has a much better life than me ..... We're all too human. Sending you big (((hugs))) and hoping you'll try to be kinder to yourself. Xxx

rowan have you ever tried complementary therapies such as reiki or reflexology, indian head massage etc. They cannot replace your medication but may help you to feel relaxed and better about yourself. You must ask your doc before trying them, but I hope you can where I live it costs between 20 and 30 quid a session but it varies from area to area.
Im a trained therapist and I do people for free so if you live in Northumberland no probs. But I assume you don't but do look around for prices and treat yourself you will be pleasantly surprised

Thank you DebnCreme, KatyK and others. I can't believe that anyone else could have similar unpleasant thoughts too. I have a lot of issues with my MIL who can be extremely tactless at times. When, a few months back, DH asked her quietly not to keep bringing up my weight in conversations because it upset me, she commented that I was a 'complicated person' (!) Not that she was rude in mentioning my weight, of course. But I'm afraid that these days EVERYTHING she says irritates me to screaming point, though on the outside I'm smiling and as kind as I can be to her. I just want her to shut the f* up when she brags about things, goes on about how wonderful her daughters' children are (when she's with us) and telling us every minute detail of their houses or what they've been doing. She fusses about food - we search out places to take her to eat with the greatest care but every time she grumbles about something and it's only later that we hear from her youngest daughter that actually she had enjoyed her day out with us or the mini holiday we took her on (she never says so at the time).
As I said, I'm DREADING seeing her a week on Sunday because she will want to go on and on about her new great grandchild (as of course anyone would), not realising that for me it's a trigger and a big issue. I can't carry on avoiding it, I know, so I will have to find some way of coping in the future. But I don't feel up to it at the moment.

I sound more and more like a grumpy old woman - certainly a twitter and bisted one! But it's sooo good to come on here and share thoughts, experiences and feel less alone.

As to my psychiatrist - he's a nice man, very understanding and I have no problem with him. It's the Integrated Psychological Therapies service who have rejected his referral. And today I emailed him to ask about stepping up my antidepressant again - and was very surprised that he replied within the hour, agreeing to my request and will have a new prescription ready for me on Tuesday morning. That at any rate is a relief, but I won't be able to discuss the rejection from CIPTS till mid June when I see him for an appointment.

I now have the picture in my mind of several Gransnetters hanging in a line on a gibbet, for voicing some bitchy thought or other....swinging in the wind....I've certainly had enough nasty thoughts to earn me many. many hangings!

Oops, posted off my original message too soon.

I am also taking a low dose of Mirtazapine and do enjoy getting some sleep but am concerned if (even more) weight gain comes with it. So far no mid night munchies for me.

I do sincerely hope someone realises your need and offers you proper help. I agree with everything that sunseeker says, you are allowed to have your own views so don't let saying 'no' worry you too much. Without wishing to repeat this too often, but it is important, be kind to yourself. (((hugs)))

As ever it has taken far too long for me to spot an important thread. So sorry you are having problems again *Rowantree. it never ceases to amaze me that psychiatrists get cross or difficult when the course of treatment they recommend doesn't work for a particular person. Do they not realise that you want it to work far more than they do, so not only are you coping with feeling depressed, anxious and jealous but you are also bitterly, bitterly disappointed.

Kiora - that was a great post. I also think I would be hung if people knew my thoughts sometimes! Good job folks can't mind read or I'd be in serious trouble. I have often been talking to someone, smiling and agreeing with them and thinking 'do you know what, I'd really like to slap your face'. I also know that I am a good kind person but I am also human. Time to give ourselves a break I think.

Thank you all so much. I am amazed and so grateful for the lovely people on Gransnet. I don't feel quite so alone, and I'm certain many others feel the same way.

Kiora, I can identify with so much of what you say - counting your blessings has often had the effect of making me feel even more guilty and ashamed for being so selfish. You're right, it is an awful illness. It's not visible to others, and we feel we have to protect others from ourselves. It's the jealousy I find hardest to deal with of all my issues - the German term for it is Gluckschmerz and its counterpart is schadenfreude (to which I also plead guilty). I try hard to be as supportive as I can to others - friends and family - but when they begin to improve and regain their equilibrium, somehow that makes me feel worse (that makes NO sense at all, does it?)
I don't have these feelings about either of my daughters though - I can feel jealous FOR them but never OF them! It tends to be worse with people I know well, friends, or other family members.
I can identify with your holiday anxiety too and I do really hope your anxiety doesn't spoil it. I was keen on booking ours initially but when DH started getting enthusiastic about visiting places and making detailed plans I began to panic again. Maybe we can support each other in the run-up!
I will try and bear in mind your suggestions and what helps you. xxx

Rowan. Sending you a big big (((((((HUG))))))) I like you, I like your take on life. I'v posted on here about my feelings of horrible jealousy. But they are that, just feelings, not facts. Your not horrible to people are you. We can all think as we like. Our thoughts are our own. I'd be hung if people knew my thoughts. I think I had a period of depression at about the same time as you. So I can well understand your thought processes. I seemed to see only the dark side of everything and everybody. I remember thinking "I'm never talking to so& so again, they haven't supported me, they only think of themselves. Etc etc" it really made me feel worse but I couldn't help it. It wouldn't stop. As for counting my blessing because other people were much worse off than me. That really was unhelpful because I then thought what a selfish shit I was. I'm feeling a lot better now. I still often have days when I wake up feeling low. It's scary because I immediately think I'm getting ill again. I worry it will come back. It's such an awful illness. I'm due to go on holiday soon and I too am worried about spoiling it because my anxiety levels are still very near the surface. My husband has no insight at all lucky him. So finds it difficult to understand. I talked to him yesterday. More as a warning rather than looking for support from him. The thing that helps me the most is breathing slowly and keep reminding myself that these are my feelings and in fact nothing awful is going to happen. But that's hard when these feelings engulf you. I hope you feel better soon. Don't be so hard on yourself, your not as horrible as you think.

You are entitled to the services of a CPN whether or not you have been an inpatient. Contact the hospital or clinic where your psychiatrist works and ask to speak to the CPNs. Or you can google your health authority and either search online for CPNs or ring and ask. It may be that the psychiatrist will need to make the referral to the CPN, but you can ask for this to be put into action - tell them how bad you are feeling and that you need support to carry on and to continue with the medication.

Depression is a very complicated illness, because, as you know only too well, it can lead to irrational thoughts which are scary, and lead people to lose self-esteem and the courage to be assertive about what they need - they feel that they will be dismissed.

Can I suggest that you list clearly your reasons for needing support alongside your therapy. Put it all down on paper and have it with you when you speak to them. It will help you to be clear when you are feeling a bit nervous.

Both being unwell and putting on weight are blows to your self-esteem and you need someone bolstering this for you until you are well enough to do so yourself - which you will be in time.

That's a good post sunseeker and I agree that for now, it may be best not so see your MIL. Rowantree your traumatic time with your DD2 has infused you with dark feelings about 'birth' and maybe the fact that you have never been allowed to fully grieve about this, has led to resentment about others' pregnancies.This is all subconcious stuff, it's what our brains do to protect us from reality.Is the time right to get these feelings into the open concious part of the mind, and hope that the resentful feelings will then fade away? Try and find a new anti-depressant that won't cause weight gain, there should be one?Would a mild sleeping tablet help you? Fears are always worse during the night, and a good sleep will help your mood.As others have said, you are not alone, none of us are very good, even though we try to be.You have had problems in your life, as many of us have had, but with the right medication, your DH and the knowledge that lots of women have depressive feelings [especially our age] you CAN get over this.

Someone once said to me that part of my problem was that I was trying to be perfect - when, of course, no-one is. I think you are the same, you feel you have to present a "perfect" front to the world or they will see the real you. Well, the real you isn't that bad, in fact the real you is just as human and imperfect as the next person. I imagine you go out of your way not to upset people but do people go out of their way not to upset you? I'm not saying you should go around deliberately upsetting people, but if there is something you feel strongly about you are entitled to say so. If you don't feel up to visiting your MiL then don't go. Your DH sounds very supportive and if you can explain to him the reasons you don't want to go he could go alone and give your excuses, or if you do decide to go, he could help steer the conversation away from the topics that upset you.

Please stop thinking about yourself as if you were somehow inferior to everyone else, you are not. If you were the terrible person you think you are then none of this would upset you would it.

As I said before, try to be kind to yourself (((hugs)))

It is such a comfort reading the responses here. I feel so guilty for feeling as I do. I am dreading hearing the news from Canada about DH's niece - details of how well she did in her labour, pics of the baby etc....things that most people would delight in hearing, but I am trying hard to pretend it's not going to happen. I know my DH has had the email by now, and he is aware of my feelings and hasn't said anything to me since I blew up at him the other night when he read his sister's email describing how she was with her daughter at the birth and how well it was all going. I said stupid, horrible childish things, such as 'I don't want to know about the stupid b** - why should we have all those b** details?' It was a ridiculous overreaction, just like a two-year-old and I feel so ashamed, but 24 hours later I still feel the same! I will have to face it sometime, send the required congratulations card and big present, but the worst thing will be hearing MIL going on and on about it when we visit her a week on Sunday. When her daughter gave birth she rang me up to tell me and made a point of telling me it was a 'normal birth' (mine were both C-sections - my first was horrendous because it was an emergency and the epidural didn't work properly so I felt some pain -and the second was when my DD2 was born with Goltz and severe malformations, so both times I felt utterly cheated of the blissful time I thought everyone else had giving birth). I was so angry with MIL for being thoughtless enough to point it out, and I know she will be doing the same this time for her granddaughter. How on earth will I deal with it? I have no idea - I am even thinking of pretending I'm not well enough to visit her, but I know it will have to happen sometime and I can't stop an elderly woman wanting to talk excitedly about her great-grandchild!!
It's worrying me so much at the moment that I can't think straight and the rejection letter from CIPTS was the icing on the proverbial cake today. I keep bursting into tears and my emotions are all over the place.

As to private therapy - I am certainly going to pursue this option now if I can find someone suitable and affordable.
What TwiceAsNice said about not being able to access primary and secondary care at the same time is correct - at least it is where I live. So it's pointless going back to my GP. I will have to battle it out with my psychiatrist when I next see him in mid June, but I don't suppose that will get me very far.

Grannyknot - I wish I was like you - those are the kind of feelings I really
wish I had. YOU are a truly good person!

I'm not sure whether I'm entitled to a CPN. I thought you only got one of those when you'd been an in-patient of a psychiatric ward, and I haven't ever been. I suppose I should be thankful for that, but if I had been, I might have rather more help now!
KIttylester and KatyK - reassuring to read that you sometimes feel similarly, and I had to smile as I read your posts because I knew I'd feel exactly the same in your situation. I hardly dare share my feelings with friends because I'm terrified they'd see me for what I am and be horrified and disgusted. Also I sometimes feel envious/jealous of close friends and I'd be mortified and devastated if they knew, or were hurt by it.

I've already painfully lost one 25-year friendship 5 years ago, partly because the friendship became rather toxic but mainly because I lost the struggle to hide feelings of jealousy and inadequacy and they spilled over despite my best efforts. I felt deep shame and humiliation; my 'friend', with whom I shared a small business, dumped me, and I had to give up seeing mutual friends and going to the groups we used to attend together because it would have been too awkward otherwise. She is going from strength to strength, continuing with her side of the business (she lied to me and was overtly unpleasant and cruel during the split, sending her DH to shout at me for not dividing the shared stock quickly enough and ignored the fact that we were going through a rather gruelling court case at the time (DD2 was sexually assaulted by a peodophile who turned his attention to vulnerable young girls). Anyway that's all in the past now, and it was all more complicated than it sounds, but it's left its mark and I have to be so careful to keep my inadequacies hidden so people can't see the unacceptable truth!

I am hoping that once I start taking the new antidepressant (not for a few weeks unfortunately) I will start to feel a little better - but they do take a few weeks to kick in so I won't know for quite a while yet.

Bless you all for your kindness and understanding! xxxx

Dear Rowan you are NOT in any way a subhuman freak! Most of us, however nice we may seem, harbour horrible jealous thoughts about friends and relatives - even those closest to us. It may not be nice but it's perfectly natural to resent the good things that are happening to others when we are feeling really depressed and hopeless.
I do hope you are able to find someone to help you, I'm sure the answer is out there somewhere.

Rowan depression is an awful illness it doesn't make you a bad person but it can alter your thinking so you believe falsely that you are. You are having a lot of negative thoughts at the moment and that is a huge part of depression so a normal feeling for you if you like. Please go back to your GP and discuss further options with regard to antidepressants the difference can be brilliant if you find one you tolerate well and actually improves your mood. All drugs have side effects we have to decide if the pros outway the cons. Is there a branch of MIND near you? You can have long term support from them and they do individual support and helpful groups some to help depressive symptoms, some just for interest to give you something to distract you from your unhelpful thoughts. As you are under a psychiatrist you could certainly be eligible for support from a CPN? I hope one of these options may help you be happier soon and good luck and best wishes to you. Another option is to speak to a therapist. If you are with secondary mental health ( which you are if you are seeing a psychiatrist) then you may not be eligible to see one through you GP because some health boards won't allow you to access secondary and primary care at the same time if they are separate services but if it is an amalgamated service you can be referred between. Your GP will be able to tell you what kind of service operates in your area. You could access a private therapist if you can afford it. The best way to do this is through BACP or UKCP. Most therapists are registered and vetted through one or the other and you can grind someone you feel you can work with near you. If you decide to do this always ask about how they work and proof of their training, reputable therapists will not mind this at all but at present anyone can set themselves up in private practice with the minimum of training so if you find them through a professional organisation you will have peace of mind. I wish you well.

Please remember that you have an illness and not a personal weakness. It is so easy to embrace that mindset and it really is not helpful.

There is no doubt that some anti-depressants fuel appetite and the desire to eat more is not a personal failing but a drug-induced state. It may be that you need the help of a dietician alongside your medication.

You are certainly in need of general support with your treatments and therapies and this is where a CPN can be very useful.

Rowan it's weird for me to read about your envy of other people, because I sort of have the reverse: I feel guilty when things go well for me and then I think about all the people in the whole wide world who aren't as lucky as I am (because a lot of it is luck, although I know you can make your own luck too). For instance, at the moment I am knitting beautiful things for my first grandchild who will be born in July, and I feel bad for all the mums who don't even have somewhere safe to take their babies home to, let alone exquisite knitted stuff. So I am a bit nuts too.

Re the meds - isn't there something about when you come off SSRIs, you can sometimes for a short period of time experience the original symptoms? It's a bit like when headache tablets cause headaches ...

I definitely know that's the case with tranquillisers. Where are the GN clinicians when you need them?

I had been wondering too Rowan

Rowantree I haven't read this whole thread, but strangely, you were on my mind this morning and I wondered where you had disappeared to and whether you were okay.

Hugs.

Kitty - it's natural I think to be a bit miffed. I know all about my DD's friend's mum. I spent a few hours with her recently and she said 'sorry I didn't catch your name' . She is feisty, accomplished, has a lovely life (apparently), has a top of the range new car every year, is invited to all the girly 'dos' they have, days out to the races and much more. I, however, am none of the above. Oo did I really just type that out loud! Bitter? moi? Rowan maybe if you did have a chat with someone, a friend maybe, and said that you are getting all these resentful feelings, it may help you. I have a chat with my sisters about my 'bitterness' and we end up having a laugh about it.

Well said Katy.

DD1 and her friend took their shared cleaner (who DD calls Fairy Godmother!) out for afternoon tea as a birthday treat. I was really . Silly really as I know she loves me and she is very thoughtful as far as the whole family is concerned.

The brilliant thing about GN, Rowan, is that we are mostly supportive and I'm sorry someone appeared irritated - that wouldn't have been most of us at all!