Patrick Stewart on assisted dying

I'm with you maries.
I've said all I wanted to say on another thread and don't want to discuss it further, I just wanted to tell you how much I sympathise and agree

My father was not dying . He was killed by the hospital who decided they would withdraw treatment - but didnt tell me, or ask him.

To quote the doctor there " hes has a good innings". He was 89. Prince Philip had the same complaint and got treated and he is still alive. Had I known that before my father was bumped off ( and there is no other word) then I could have done something.

They killed him despite my asking for a different doctor and asking to pay to go private.

This is common practice.

I realise now they did exactly the same to my aunt - only worse, she was childless and the hospital didnt even bother to find her next of kin. They chose instead to use a stranger and put him in as NoK despite it being on my aunts notes that she had family who should be informed.

This man agreed with them for the LCP. I only found out when the under taker rang me ( he knew who I was) because this man had the death certificate and was clearing out her house and was trying to arrange her funeral ( cremation) and I got the shock news. Too late. When I spoke to the hopsital and PALS and all plethera of others I was fobbed off.

Dont ever get stuffed in hospital at a weekeind if you are old, thats when its worst.

You only have to look through our local paper to see how much its going on - comments from people like me and long lists of local death notices all from the same hospital trust.

My aunt must have died despetrate for water and food all because I didnt act on my instinct when she didnt pick up the phone (she often didnt and I would wait for her to call back). All because the hospital didnt inform me as they were asked to. Theats just the beginning too. I would hesitate to tell you what happens when some strangergets your family members house keys, effects and mosreimportantly her death certificate , with regard to bank accounts and pensions etc. Its a muggers charter - and he helped kill her too.

Most of this - and I am not the only one - caused by people, like those here who keep supporting dignitas and assisted dying and wanting it legalised. They can abuse it when its illegal, imaging what can be done once legalised. Its a Harold Shipman charter. They put him in gaol , now you lot would be giving him a medal for helping all those old ladies on peacefully.

Many medical staff now cannot understand when someone says they dont agree. They are so conditioned by expecting people to want their loved ones assisted or " helped" with that last dose of morphine.

Thats why I disagree with you. Too often those shouting the loudest I suspect are the ones least likely to be on this themselves at the end of the day. It is always for others. As I said, you go and line up first.

Why do you assume that anyone who wants to die like that is pressured or helped into it, Maries?
When my husband was dying of brain cancer, he decided he'd had enough. The doctor agreed with him that he would never improve, so he was allowed to stop eating and drinking until he died, as written in his living will. No pressure, just his decision. The GP said it was the hardest thing she had ever had to do.
If I am ever in his position, I will do the same, and so will lots of our family members, who saw it was a good and peaceful way to die.

Indeed- think about it. Sorry.

I am sorry to break into the self satisfied mutual agreement society here , but I do not agree.

This is something that has been and continues to go on , albeit illegally
(but sanctioned by the turning of blind eyes!). My father and aunt have been victims and I have been powerless to stop it.

I just hope you will all line up to be the first to go - and then the rest of us can be left to die when our time comes and not be pressured or
"helped" to it, even by one second.

Be careful what you wish for.

Also I think it would upset the balance of trust too- as Jane said before with the example of an elderly patient saying to the doc 'are you going to do a Shipman on me'? Best to separate totally regular medical staff, and Exit requests.

Yes, I think it would be too much to expect one's own GP to take all the responsibility - they have enough to cope with.

I do hope will soon be allowed to choose a) how and where we wish to spend our last days and b) to be assisted to die (if our illness is terminal) if that's our choice.

Exactly. If you are a member of Exit and asks for their help- you are visited by one of the trained volunteers- who talks to you alone to find out exactly what the situation is, if you have any doubt or hesitation at all, and whether any outside 'pressure' is born to bear on you, be it from relatives, or anyone.

If they feel that there are any concerns re doubt/s or outside pressure, then they will not agree to support you and will say it is best to wait for a while. If they come to the conclusion this is what you really want, and that there are no outside influences, etc- they will set a date with you. On the day- the volunteer will visit and again speak to the person on their own to ascertain for sure that both above conditions are met- and then, and only when- will help the person take the potion and stay with them until death is confirmed- all is recorded properly, and then doctor and police called.

No slippery slope at all- and the GP is not involved at all with the 'deed', which I feel is far better.

"You wouldn't treat a dog like this" may be a cliche, but it is so true. It is absolutely tragic tht someone should have to die like this. How could you look back on a happy life together when the end has been so awful? Surely people could be allowed a dignified death of their own choosing without it leading to the mass destruction of unwanted elderly relatives that is always touted as an awful warning.

The Terry Pratchett Dimbleby Lecture, read by Tony Robinson, was so moving. But I am afraid I felt very uncomfortable with the case/man they portrayed in the documentary- as it was partly a depression thing, and he was not really debilitated by disease. I do think he had to right to make the choice he did- but an 'example' which was much more 'clearcut' would have been much better to illustrate the feelings behind the need for change.

Problem is, late cases where people are really debilitated rarely can travel to Switzerland- so people facing a terrible death have to come earlier than really necessary, or it might be too late. Again, really tragic that people feel they have to make that choice far too early to ensure the choice is not taken away by the inability to travel.

I would urge anyone who agrees with this article to join EXIT in Switzerland. You cannot avail yourself of their services unless you are resident here- but you would be supporting their great cause. Being a member would also serve to prove to the police/Law, that you have joined because you are serious about your wishes should you ever 'come a cropper' with some terrible disease that cannot be controlled.

It has a section for foreign members, in English.

I agree with you all.

I watched a very moving programme last year when Terry Pratchett accompanied a very sick man to Switzerland and stayed with the man and his wife until the end.

Although I was affected by the filming of this man's death for weeks afterwards, I believe it was the right thing to do. If only it could have happened in his own home.

Not an easy subject.

We have several friends in the UK who have 'booked' their stay with us if ever they need the help of Exit- at least they will be in a comfotable and happy home- and their family will be welcome too. But it just shouldn't have to be that way.

I grieve that people in the UK only have the choice to travel to Switzerland, and die in a flat on an industrial estate via Dignitas, away from the comforts of home and their family- so so sad and tragic.

Agree totally too- and so glad the situation here is the same more or less as in Oregon. All the safety checks are in place and no slippery slope at all.

For us, such a relief that if ever we are struck with some dreadful disease, and the fight is lost, we will be able to EXIT at the time of our choosing.

Thank you for sharing this article with us bags. I was moved to tears. If I should reach the stage when I feel that my life has run its useful course...*please, let it be legal for my nearest and dearest to help me to die.*

I agree with every word, too, specially this last sentence:

'There is something broken and savage about a law that says when you are so ill, so full of cancerous pain, you cannot have your family, your pets, the things that made your life valuable, to comfort you when you choose to die.'

I hope it's legal here before I get desperate. I trust my family, maybe many don't. Although I don't have any millions that might give them an incentive to bump me off quicker, I know my children well enough to know that (currently) they wouldn't want to lose me too soon, but wouldn't want me to suffer either.

I agree. This is also a good point:

"To argue that legalising assisted dying for dying competent adults will inevitably lead to a ‘slippery slope’ is equally absurd. When a law is passed, a framework for what is and is not permissible is set down. Any deviation from this is, by definition, illegal."

For those who have read my previous posts on this subject, it will come as no surprise that I support every word he has said in that article.

In Oregon, assisted dying has been legal for more than a decade and a half, and to my knowledge their society has not collapsed, nor have their vulnerable citizens been dispatched by greedy relatives keen to inherit. People in Oregon are better protected by their law.

In Oregon, the terminally ill’s decisions about how they die are informed ones, made with health professionals, rather than in their absence. Allowing such choice importantly allows for alternatives to be suggested, for conversations about why the person wants to die and for loved ones to be able to come to terms with the decision in advance. Conversations David and Gillian were denied.

I am sure that the summary will be the same for other countries where assisted suicide is legal. It would help to prevent people from dying a prolonged (and often painful) lonely death.