Breastfeeding

Petallus I don't agree with coercion either, and like others think that the money would be better spent supporting mothers of all ages through better midwifery and health visitor advice.

There is a lot of coercion not to breastfeed in some families.
18 year-olds may be legally adults, but I wonder how many 18 year-olds' pregnancies are actually planned and how many 18 year-olds are mature enough to cope with the physical and emotional challenges of pregnancy, childbirth and suddenly being responsible for another human being, that women twice their age find difficult enough.

I'm for supporting them, not bribing them.

People are adult at age 18 janea.

Certainly, younger teenagers might need support and hopefully this would come from families or the social services.

Not sure where coercion to breastfeed comes into it.

I am all for helping expectant mothers in making an informed choice regarding feeding methods but once they have been informed, the choice is up to them.

No one should be emotionally or financially bribed with, there is only one way.

This money could be put to so much better use in our ailing NHS.

I agree with you Ginny about the bonding.
2 of my DGCs were bottle fed and I loved giving them their bottles - it felt just as close and loving as when I had breastfed my DCs. I was so glad that DiL was happy to delegate it

Petallus We're not talking exclusively about adult women, though, are we? Doesn't the UK still have the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in Europe?

Women should decide for themselves what is best for them and their babies. I fully bottle fed my 3 DDs from the start and none of them could have been more wanted and loved. They have all grown to be happy and healthy. The' bonding' issue seems to be one that is pushed a lot too. Babies know who Mum is and as long as they are loved, cuddled and taken notice of breast or bottle makes no difference. Now all my DDs are in their 30s I have the same very close relationship with them all that I have always had. They know they are much loved and I know they love me.

But we are talking about adult women. Is it appropriate to think of them, and treat them, as though they are children?

There is a patronising air about the whole scheme.

Because £200 might help them overcome their 'aversion' to it. Bit like telling a small child that if they eat one sprout they can have pudding afterwards .

But how is paying those mothers £200 going to stop them from thinking that breastfeeding is 'gross'?

I know of several young mothers that have determined right from the start that they wouldn't breast feed because it's 'gross' . I think that's the attitude that the campaign wants to stop. When animals are orphaned they have to have special formulas made for them so why can human babies just have cows milk [albeit altered in some way]? It is rotten for mothers that want to breast feed and can't though, but I don't think this initiative should stop because of that, as they'd be the first people to understand the importance of it.

"Probably many still do"

No! No way!!!

(petallus' post down there)

Thank you for the vote of confidence, Nelliemoser! I can't add anything really conclusive to the debate about why women don't breast feed. There are so many reasons. Some women struggle to produce enough milk for a hungry baby, others have funny shaped nipples or uncooperative babies, some get infections or really badly cracked nipples, others find their OH or their mother or MiL isn't very supportive. The factors that make it easier seem to be good support in the early days - someone who knows what they're talking about, family members who give help and support and some experience of breast feeding sisters, aunts, mothers, MiLs and friends. You've got an uphill struggle if the baby howls all the time, the grandmother(s) keep saying, poor lamb, he/she's hungry, no-one else in your social circle is breast feeding and your OH wants you to get rid of the nursing bra and come out on the town.

Yes, it's bullying (or at least coercion) and usually goes from those who think they know better to others lower down the social scale who are thought to need enlightening.

Didn't the upper classes employ wet nurses years ago? Probably many still do. I don't suppose they were/are subject to these pressures.

I wouldn't have thought in this day of political correctness that it would be possible to say if you breast feed you get money and if you don't tough. There are millions of women (me included) who would have loved to breastfeed their children but couldn't and no amount of money would make it happen. This is some form of bullying or exclusion and it should not happen. Yes some mothers might be encouraged to breastfeed but lots more will feel even worse than they do already. There are many mothers who would welcome this sum of money to help with all the costs of a newborn and it should be available to all.

I think this campaign is intended to influence mothers who from the start have absolutely no intention of breast feeding.

There must be many reasons for not wanting to even try.
Perhaps the support workers trying to encourage mums to breast feed really should try to find out exactly what it is that stops women from doing so.
Just to say "I do not want to" without being able to explain why suggests that they may have not actually thought hard about why they feel like this.

I wonder if any researcher has looked in detail at the reasons that are given. This might lead to the chance to discuss with groups of the more reluctant mums and young mums. It could be done in a way that would appeal to younger mums and challenge opinions. All done sensitively of course.
I wonder how much reluctance is due to feeling it is disgusting or have family who pass on that attitude. Or is it embarrassment at being seen to do it or that a younger mothers might feel ridiculed my her friends for breast feeding. Any ex health visitors, midwives breast feeding counsellors out there.
Lilygran put your hand up please, you might have an answer.

I enjoyed breast feeding too and found it easier on a cold night to get the baby plugged in than to hang about waiting for a bottle to heat. Also DH decided that as he could sleep at night, he would bring me a morning cup of coffee, and that went on until the youngest DC was at secondary school, so was a good bargain, I think! However, I was bottle fed myself as my mother couldn't get breast feeding established, and I feel quite healthy, touch wood. One DGC was vaginally delivered and breast fed and has multiple allergies, so might muck up somebody's study. Can we join your family in wrecking the data, J52?

My doctor said that breast milk was best because the cat couldn`t get at it! Seriously though, I enjoyed breast feeding all five of mine, albeit it for only 3 or 4 months.

I too used to think the benefits were huge, thatbags. Looking back, I was probably a very smug breastfeeder. But although there are certainly advantages, bottle feeding has some too. The baby's father can take his turn, probably leading to a closer relationship with the little one. Mothers can go back to work if they want/need to. Even being able to go to the pictures or out with friends occasionally must be a boon to new parents. Even shopping without a baby in tow. Expressing never worked for me and I fed on demand. I don't think I had a night out for around 4 years!

I agree, nightowl, that it's the benefits of breast feeding that make the difference. However, I'm not sure the benefits are so huge that we need this kind of 'campaign' and pressure on young mothers. I used to think the benefits were huge. Now I'm not so sure though I do know there are some. That's why I breast fed my babies. That and the fact that for me it was easy. It isn't easy for everyone.

I had two healthy babies and count myself lucky.

I agree with petallus and lilygran

Cash would be better used employing more (some?) health visitors!

If mothers from lower socio economic groups (working class do we mean?) are so desperate for money that they cannot afford to turn down the chance of £200, what happens then?

We may very well end up with a situation where mothers are reluctantly breast feeding whilst feeling resentful and coerced. What effect might that have on the mother/baby bond?

This emphasis on breast feeding is a culturally determined thing. As I said in a previous post, French women are much more likely to bottle feed.

Why can't people just do what they want to do and let other do the same?

I breastfed with no problems, so count myself very lucky. I agree that there is a lot more pressure on new mums these days to breastfeed - I'm sure a lot of it is down to targets that have to be met - and that this will just add to that pressure for some. I know someone who was given a pamphlet, one of many, by her midwife that emphasised how happy her partner would be if she breastfed because she would get her figure back quickly.

I always liked Hugh Jolly - he talked a lot of commonsense.

Where is the empathy for the first time mother, who, no fault of her own, cannot have a vaginal birth or breastfeed?

She will no doubt have seen the posters at ante natal clinics that 'breast is best' and there the pressure starts, if she can't do this, she has already failed. 'Love is best'

£200 per baby spent on other ways of supporting and encouraging mothers trying to breatfeed would have more effect.

The same £200 could also be spent on mothers who can't/don't breastfeed to help them in the difficult first days and weeks. They may be facing other problems too.

I don't think it's so much that bottle feeding causes health problems as breast milk confers health benefits. There is a difference and there is evidence to support this. In fact when you think about it it's common sense that human milk must be better for babies than modified milk from a different species. That's not to place any guilt on mothers who can't or choose not to breastfeed, and it's not to say that bottle fed babies can't do very well, it's just a fact.

I think Flickety explained the rationale behind this scheme, which is to reach out to lower socioeconomic groups where bottle feeding is the norm and mothers may need an incentive to buck the trend, and to explain to their friends why they are doing it. £200 is a lot of money to these mums but it still won't work without proper support and advice. In my experience midwives and health visitors are not necessarily the best people to offer this, unless they have had specialist training and have time to do it.