Depression 2

I too think you're making progress Mishap and maybe that's why you're noticing the 'bad' days more? Very sound advice from Elegran.
I know just how difficult depression is and send you ((hugs)) and many best wishes x

mishap you say " If I could see a pattern of progress then it would be easier to deal with. " but my impression (just an impression, without going back over all your posts) is that you DO HAVE a pattern of improvement overall. It is just that you yourself can't see the general graph for the individual bad bits.

Could you start recording a score - 1 to 10 perhaps - for each day? Even for part of a day - a good morning but a bad afternoon, a medium night's sleep and so on? You could look back on it and maybe see an overall trend toward higher scores, with peaks and troughs. You might be encouraged by what you see - which would take you over the troughs better when you know that it does improve, though gradually.

Thank you for your posts.

Nfk - it is very difficult to answer your question as there is nothing like a linear progress here. I can have several good days and I get optimistic that things are on the mend, and then it will drop on me from nowhere and I am at rock bottom again. I think that is what I find so difficult. I can have a gap of 4 or 5 days when I am OK (not back on top but OK) and then it all starts again. If I could see a pattern of progress then it would be easier to deal with. Hopefully as time ges by the gaps will get bigger and the drops less far.

Annie - it seems that there is someone who does the Rewind Technique nearby and I will at least enquire about the cost and the likely length of treatment.

I understand about spending money on therapists, it can indeed cost a fortune and it's always having to find your own way. Some people seem to be lucky and find a sympathetic GP and a good referral straightaway. Do you know the sites No More Panic and Anxiety UK? Both have a lot on them and active forums.

Don't blame you for grabbing the CBT or whatever is available. I just found CBT fairly limited though not useless.

Actually, just thought too that the Rewind Technique is meant to be very effective so that you only need a couple of sessions and that is what I found but who knows, it depends again maybe on the person and the interaction.

I hope you can manage to find the energy to keep going within the NHS, from all the stories I hear, persistence pays off.

How long is it since your last really bad downer? Are the gaps between getting bigger?

Hopefully this one won't last too long.

Thank you.

I have asked about the Rewind Technique - I'll try anything just now - but there do not seem to be any therapists in my area.

The NHS counselling service round here is solely CBT, of which many aspects do not apply to me - for instance I do not have low self-esteem or self-confidence - I'm just blooming ill! I will go ahead with their assessment sessions as this is all that is on offer.

The problem with private therapists is that if you do not click with their approach, a lot of money has been poured away - which I find hard to swallow.

The treatments in offer seem to be very hit and miss - trial and error with the medications and the therapies at a time when you do not have the energy to be searching for a treatment.

Mishap - I do understand being 'strong' is easier said than done.

Mishap I really feel for you, I've spent a lot of my life depressed too. I wish NICE wasn't so focused on CBT because I think it's of limited (but not no) use. Anti-depressants seem to have so many side effects, they are depressing in themselves!

I was interested in that link you put up www.clinical-depression.co.uk/ because that particular company and site, Uncommon Knowledge, is something I've been interested in for a while. They do some really useful MP3 downloads at reasonable cost which I've found very useful.

They also train therapists to do something called the Rewind Technique which, I think, comes originally from the Human Givens approach (http://www.hgi.org.uk/index.htm). Rewind is a technique that's been developed to help people suffering from PTSD and it's become pretty mainstream now. It helps you to go back and neutralise trauma in a safe and unthreatening way. Trauma means anything from a bad fall to the more serious kind of stuff that happens to people in life.

It's really helped me and is linked to the hypnotherapy I've had which has also been really helpful. I think some people are more sensitive than others because of personality, childhood, life events and things that might be shrugged off by some remain with others for life and affect their ability to cope with the everyday.

I've also tried a number of counsellors/therapists in my life and I think you have to resonate with someone to work usefully with them and that probably goes for anyone doing hypnotherapy or Rewind therapy too.

Anyway, go well and don't give up. Hugs.

I have no time to post mishap but hope your well soon. I have just had my Friday calling 'wipe my bum bum' from my 3 year old G.D

Thank you.

I have cancelled a visit from an old university friend for Saturday - I have not seen her for years and she emailed to say she was in the area and would like to call in. But I just know that I am not able to deal with that level of socialising at the moment. This is just about as out of character for me as anything could be - normally I would leap at the chance. This loss of real life is so painful to me and my family.

It is not that I feel anxious about these things, but that I feel so ill and cannot trust myself not to be weepy at the drop of a hat.

You are right Katy that being strong is the only way forward - but the illness itself takes so much of that strength away. The sense of struggling through all the time is torture. I drag myself about and try to carry on. I will get there I know, but it is taking so very long, and the progress is hit and miss. I can rely on nothing.

But I sometimes feel bit better in the evenings so I bash on with that hope ahead of me.

What a b****r this truly is.

Mishap. I have felt as you do and have dreaded simple things like looking after my DGD, going to social events etc sometimes I have been getting ready to go to a 'do' or something and have literally been shaking with apprehension and the 'I can't do this' feeling. However I have always got through it (it's a shame that something nice has to be 'got through') and I don't think anyone would have any idea of what was going on inside me. We are stronger than we think and you have done SO well so far.

I can add nothing to Ann's post really Mishap but I feel so sad for you and do hope you can be well again soon!

Oh dear Mishap things don't seem to be improving for you at all, but you just have to have faith that they WILL get better. I cannot imagine just how awful you feel,although I get depressed I have not had depression and it sounds truly awful.

I so admire you for trying so hard to carry on with the things you can do,although with a struggle, and hope your GS brings you some joy when he stays over and it brings you some small sense of acheivement.

This morning when I woke up things were about as bad as they can be - I have fought my way through using a relaxation session on my iPod and getting up and having a shower.

Anyone who has never had serious depression will think that this sounds totally bonkers, but believe me it took everything I have to do those two small things; and every ounce of determination not to sink into a weeping heap.

The sensation when the attacks hit is unspeakably dreadful - a sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach as though the life is being sucked out of you. It is indescribable and very hard to understand - for me, let alone anyone else.

How glad I will be when I can stop using all my energy just to stay afloat and get on with living.

I am lucky that I enjoy quilting and other sewing/craft activities so I can immerse myself in those when the going gets tough. And my amily are wonderful.

I have to have my 3 year old GS for the night tomorrow - I just hope I can find the wherewithall to do it (with OH's help). I am a bit worried about this, but saying no to this would have felt like the final giving in.

Absolutely not a total misery * Mishap*, just so, so wish I could offer more than a listening ear. Been there, got the tee shirt etc.
((Hugs)) and hopefully the CPN will be able to help x

Thanks Rowantree for your thoughts and ideas - they are all welcome.

One of the difficult things for me is that I have stopped trusting (and therefore to some extent enjoying) the occasional good day. I used to get my hopes up and think that it had all passed and it was doubly painful when I was faced with a bad day the next day.

And the physical symptoms are a huge trial: nausea (lots of that!), diarrhoea, migraine etc. Add in the arthritis pain and it is all very challenging indeed. The black moments when they arrive are unimaginably bad and they drop on me from nowhere - I can change in the course of a few hours - so planning to do anything is very hard indeed.

Yes - getting up and about is the first challenge of the day, but I feel so ill if I lie in bed as you are just locked in the downward spiral.

All the evidence suggests that medication combined with some other "talking therapy" is the most successful route, so I am booked from some CBT with a PTSD focus - on the NHS I am glad to say. The counsellor I saw did not suit me - I think in some ways I was too ill to benefit from what she had to offer - and she was very expensive indeed!

It is a very odd illness and until it struck me I had no idea how debilitating and serious it could be - but now I know.

It is good to hear from people who have come out the other side in one piece.

I hope my post hasn't made you feel worse, mishap. I recall that when I was feeling so awful, I sometimes felt very jealous/envious hearing that others were well, so I was a bit hesitant posting. My intention was to give you hope, if possible: I remember weeping constantly to my DH, 'I'll never enjoy anything again!' and feeling utter despair. Some of my family are sceptical that the medication has made any difference and that it's therapy which has helped. I beg to differ: though I am firmly in favour of talking therapies, it HAS to be the right one for you and not everyone suits every kind of therapy. If one isn't helping, it's important to try something else. Where I live, options were limited, and I have been told that I won't be able to have anything else on the NHS because I've exhausted what's available locally. That upset me a lot, but then the new medication started to work and I then decided there was no need to seek anything further. I recognise that the respite might not last - I've been here before, though not for years - so if I become unwell again, I will have to seek private help, depending on our finances. I don't know of any other medical department which refuses to give further help to a patient because they aren't 'cured', but mental health resources are very limited. Go for whatever you can, Mishap; find out what other therapies are available to you, just in case, so you're forearmed and well-informed. That in itself can feel empowering.

In the meantime, getting up and out of bed is an achievement in itself. Having small, achievable goals for the day can help too.
You might find herbal teas help a little, too: I have chamomile flowers, lime flowers (gentle and fragrant) and hops - all very soothing and calming. Loose teas are best and they can be ordered online.
You might also find a regular massage helps to relax you. I have reflexology every month simply because I find the foot massage so relaxing and blissful!
There are also various books and CDs available, as I'm sure you've discovered. I used 'The Mindful Way Through Depression' which has a CD with it. There are also sometimes such courses available locally - look on the website of your local Buddhist Centre, perhaps.

You are doing all you can to help yourself, but it's important to hold in your mind that sometimes you will have bad days and to be kind and gentle with yourself at those times, as you would be with a dear friend or relative. They do pass, and your bleak mood also will pass in time.
Wishing you well. X

Thank you rowantree - I am so pleased that you have found the right treatment for you and that you are feeling better now. I am grateful for your thoughtfulness.

I am still on a roller-coaster, having good days and then very low days, but I am seeking all the help I can and throwing all that I have at it and hope that eventually the light will again dawn. It is so very trying as it curtails many of the enjoyable things in life - but, I always get up and get going even if I feel bad - I think that is very important.

Two friends have been round this morning to help me pin out a quilt and I struggled through it energy-wise - but I did it and appreciate their kindness. Lunch and a snooze now I think.

Very helpful post Rowantree. I remember your earlier posts. I am glad you are improving.

A very inspiring post Rowantree. I am so pleased to read you have made so much progress. I wish you continued good health

Just logged in and haven't had time to read everything in detail. Mishap I have struggled with anxiety, depression and intrusive, horrible thoughts for decades, on and off. Until very recently I couldn't see any hope that I could ever feel any better. I had tried CBT, a year's psychotherapy, medication of different kinds, and even a dreadful 9 months' outpatient intensive Mentalisation-Based therapy at my local psychiatric hospital, which made me feel worse. I have tried Mindfulness and mindfulness meditation, which helped a little but i've 'fallen off' that particular wagon at the moment.
I know what it feels like to be in that dark hole, deeply envious of others' happiness, believing oneself to be a failure at life, walking through treacle and unable to enjoy any of the good things around me.

I see a psychiatrist regularly and he offered me a different drug for anxiety, which seemed to help even at the lowest dose. It took a couple of weeks to get used to side-effects but it was worth it not to wake up feeling anxious and sick every day. I stopped taking an antidepressant which wasn't helping but making me put on more weight, and was offered another, which is also helping - against all the odds. For the first time in years, I have some energy. I wake up feeling.....normal. I enjoy little things again. I'm not deliriously happy and still get my mood swings and have thoughts I am ashamed of having about other people. But they don't dominate as much. They don't obsess me. I don't cry all the time any more. There is plenty of room for improvement still, but I never thought I'd ever feel like this again.
So I would say to you - yes, there IS light there, Mishap, even when it looks darkest. The blue sky is still there, even if the stormclouds obscure it now. Keep going; there is always hope. You can and you will feel better than you do now.
I don't know whether you are seeing a psychiatrist but if not I would strongly recommend asking your GP for a referral on the grounds that your depression is tenacious and needs a more definite diagnosis and treatment plan. CBT might well help, but I would still insist on a referral because it will take some time and waiting is always agnonising when you are suffering like this.

I hope today is better for you, mishap

Fingers crossed tomorrow is a better day.

too many! typo

Oh dear, I do hope you are making steps forward, Mishap and not too may backwards again.

I have felt like this a couple of times over the years and both times seemed to be linked to a new medication. I think sometimes they can upset the chemical balance.

It is rather worrying that sometimes GPs don't check the contra-indications when prescribing a medicine that may not interact well with what you are taking already. I hope you can get an appointment with your own GP asap.

and one step at a time

Partly Mishap but also because life, let alone depression, seems to chuck you backwards at times, often when you least expect it
It's normal to feel as if not having any strength to fight, and fighting it is often the wrong word to use because you can end up beating yourself up when there's a blip.
I see it more as a determination to move forward, and you really are making strides Mishap, it's just that any blips are dispiriting big time.
I do hope things will seem a bit better tomorrow ((hugs)) x