NHS again

durhamjen

You do not know what process Jeremy Hunt took before attending A&EE with his child, or do you know him personally.

You then accuse 111 of being a crap service. You could well be right I don't know.

What confuses me is you then state :-

"I used. 111 and it probably 'saved my life' in 2013"

So Labour were foolish to start that process then.
Can they be trusted with the NHS?

It is too important to be used by politicians like this. What did Diane Abbott call it last night - their 'Main Card' I think was the term she used.
That is disgusting.

Was it papa who said it should be taken out of politics altogether? I am inclined to agree.

We will never have a resolution to the problems that beset the NHS as long as politicians use it as a political point-scorer and change the goalposts every time a government changes colour.

"Everyone who has any contact with it knows that 111 is worse than NHS direct"

I've never used 111, so I can't comment, but my last experience of NHS Direct was appalling. (It was better 13 years ago, though.)

POGS, I did not say 111 was a "crap" service. I never use that word except when quoting here, obviously, before you say that.
I said it was worse than NHS Direct, and gave my reasons. NHS Direct was run by medical staff. 111 is not. It's like a call centre when they have a list of questions to ask. If you go the right path, you win an ambulance or paramedic, or lose in some cases.

Yes 111, probably saved my life when I had an aortic dissection, in that they first sent a paramedic who phoned for an ambulance. If they had realised what was wrong with me, I would have probably been taken to Newcastle straight away instead of to Durham for 4 days, but at least I was not lifting heavy weights and making the dissection worse, which I could have been if I had been at home.
I was actually in hospital when the new NHS England came into being. I asked a few nurses about it, and they did not seem to know what I was talking about, apart from the fact that new stationery had been ordered which cost a fortune and they could not see the point of it.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/real-root-ae-crisis-lies-far-beyond-wards

This article criticises both Labour and Conservative, for those of you who think I am not impartial enough.

Rose, do you think what Diane Abbott said was any worse than Cameron saying there would be no top down reorganisation, knowing that Lansley had been looking into doing what he and Hunt have done for the previous five years?
They have destroyed the NHS and caused this crisis.

durhanjen

You are correct. You only 'implied' 111 was crap not stated it.

Going from memory and thinking back to snippets of conversations I had when I worked for the NHS and I'm pretty sure that work colleagues said 111 was rubbish.

Let's not descend into petty tit-for-tat arguments over this. The NHS is a great institution under enormous pressure and now needs some care itself. Many of us owe our lives to it and will do whatever is necessary to save it from its predators, be they Tory, Socialist or anybody else.

Do you know anyone in a care home?
Do you think this is right?

pulsetoday.msgfocus.com/c/125RO9qbUH1YPw0HAHwmPcK1

Sorry Durhamjen but NHS Direct was also a call centre. One of the offices was in MK and I visited once. There were a small number of nurses available to refer certain calls. Staff followed a set script on the computer - like a flwo diagram - "has he got a temperature" "has he vomited" that kind of thing.
The staff were agency staff getting paid £7.00 something an hour and being required to work weekend and overnight shifts with very little notice of when those shifts would be. I did not think it was particularly well managed as far as staff were concerned. However it had become a known national service. The current government thought they were getting paid too much and ended the contract with different areas having different arrangements for a while. Period of chaos ensued with nobody knowing what number to call etc. Not sure how it is run now, or by whom.

papaoscar is right. The NHS is precious and we all hold it dear to our hearts. We have to think how we protect it from political game-playing, under-funding and poor management.

We have an election coming up which should be out opportunity to say what we think - I am waiting for some clarity on the subject from any of the parties.

You said what the difference is, JessM. NHS direct had nurses in every call centre. 111 does not. Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing with me.

r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEViub.a9UvsoAUggPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByNW1iMWN2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDNwRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1420847643/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.youtube.com%2fwatch%3fv%3d-DA8DHe3-wI/RK=0/RS=VLYX9iNmxkXFNGvxfvXddDCGkPY-

What I can never understand is why what the Labour party says is considered political, but what the Tory party has done to the NHS is not considered political by some on this forum.

[ by the last post

I think the NHS should be run by an apolitical body.

Of course, if parents are concerned that their child may have a serious illness and they can't see a GP, it would be perfectly natural to seek help from any source available.

I think durhamjen is right in saying Jeremy Hunt's first port of call should have been the 111 service that he has directed other people to use. Possibly he did use that service and they advised him to take his child to A&E. It has been reported that the 111 call handlers are much more likely to advise people to call an ambulance or to make their own way to A&E because they (unlike the previous NHS Direct staff) do not have enough medical support to enable them to make an informed decision as to whether the symptoms complained of indicate a serious problem or not.

I and many other people were against Labour entering into the PFI agreements with private companies to build and maintain new hospitals and schools. However, I think it should be borne in mind that when Labour first took over from the Conservatives, the NHS was - as now - in an absolutely chaotic state with a severe shortage of beds, similar stories of people waiting for hours on trolleys, hospitals and medical equipment in a severe state of dilapidation and disrepair, etc. etc.

People misusing the A&E service, either through ignorance or irresponsibility, are not a new thing. Those working in hospitals know exactly why the system is screeching to a halt - the massive cuts that have drastically affected support for people in their homes (including a 69% decrease in Meals on Wheels) and that have negatively affected
GP services.

One of the problems is that some of the ideas that get put into practice just feel gimmicky - 111 service sounds like a good idea on paper until you start to cost it and look at the practicalities. I am sure that people are right to say that it is underfunded with poorly trained staff doing their very best. And the algorithms they follow reasonably tend to err on the safe side and result in people being directed to A&E.

As this has become a political debate about the NHS can I just say that I find it unbelievable that the government are now saying "let's take the NHS out of politics and run it sensibly". When the medical profession and nurses and midwives warned that their proposed top down reorganisation wouldn't work they were ignored, and the reorganisation happened. The ensuing chaos is their responsiblility. The millions spent doing this could be funding more doctors,nurses and beds. Now they want us to believe they really care about the NHS.

Published by ConservativeHome.

www.adrianhilton.com/index.php/why-is-jeremy-hunt-contradicting-his-own-departments-advice/

Well said, trisher. I agree with every word.

trisher I agree - it is they that have imposed their political ideology on the NHS, Cameron having pledged that they would not, with the disastrous consequences we see now.

The Conservatives have said on many occasions that they wish to shrink the role of the state, which obviously involves amongst other things, the provision of public services.

Thanks for the post durhamjen Jeremy Hunt is a typical example of a Conservative-Say one thing -Do the opposite- Make use of anyone or anything. What I don't understand is why anyone would take a sick child to A&E rather than calling the out of hours service. I had to take my own kids to A&E on several occasions when they had accidents (boys!) they had brilliant care, but it isn't somewhere I would have wanted them to be if they were really ill.
I've just thought would not using the term A&E but calling it Emergencies Only cut down the number of people using it. I am sure there are people out there who don't know what A&E stands for and just think of it as an easy way to see a doctor

www.newstatesman.com/politics/2015/01/nhs-privatisation-experiment-unravelling-our-eyes

Hinchingbrooke Hospital had a bad CQC report last September. This latest one is because they did not improve in many areas. I am pleased I do not live in Huntingdon, being used as a loss leader for a private company.
The reason that the NHS bidders pulled out was because they knew that Circle was offering to do the impossible. It's a case of being hoist by their own petard.

It's okay saying that the NHS should be taken out of politics. That should have happened before Lansley's reforms and before the large scale privatisation plans.
Many of the builders who took on PFI have decided to get out of healthcare now, even though they are still reeling in the billions. They know that it will not carry on. It's like pyramid selling. Those that get in at the beginning do okay, and become preferred bidders. When people realise what a con they are, no other companies can make money out of them.

What has happened with Hinchingbrooke is similar to the East Coast Main Line. A company puts in a low offer, gets the business, gets rid of staff to lower costs, realises that they do not make enough money, then hands it back for the tax payer to correct the mess.

This could be another reason that there are problems in certain hospitals and A&Es.

"Some areas receive more money than they are entitled to under the latest funding formula and efforts have been made to rebalance spending. However, Ms Hodge said that the pace of change had been “very slow”.

She said there were “huge variations” across the country, with Corby receiving £137 per person below its fair share, and West London receiving £367 per person above it. Overall, around two fifths of CCGs and three quarters of local authorities were receiving five per cent below or above their target funding allocation, the committee said.

A Department of Health spokesperson said: “We are increasing the health budget by billions each year and the NHS has changed the way it gives money to local areas so that it better reflects population size and targets areas of deprivation.” "

I would like to know how a D0H spokesperson can say they are increasing the health budget by billions each year when everybody knows that they have been decreasing it by £20 billion over the past five years. The two statements are not compatible.
Simon Stevens has asked for the NHS to be given another £8 billion over the next five years whilst at the same time asking for £22 billion efficiency savings. What?

This was in the news less than a year ago.

socialinvestigations.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/the-house-of-circle.html

There are 17 links between Conservative lords and MPs and Circle.

For those who prefer not to read links, this paragraph in durhamjen's link is quite important:

"A secret plan to hand over NHS hospitals to foreign companies was initially exposed by the transparency campaigners, Spinwatch in 2011. A Freedom of Information release unearthed communications between management consultancy firm McKinsey and the Department of Health, which revealed how over 20 NHS hospitals should be taken over by foreign firms. This process should be done with a “mindset of one at a time…because of various political constraints associated with privatisation.”

durhamjen

Yes it was an interesting link, even I agree with. I do however find your comment which gives the impression only conservative politicians are the devils spawn unbalanced and for those who don' t/ won't read links I would like to say this in connection to the link.

Andrew Robertson is a left wing blogger with connections to the left wing media such as The Guardian, Russia Today etc. however I thought the link was fairly balanced, other than I think there could be other names from the political world that were missing.

What I liked about the link was his policy to not only list conservative connections to the private companies but the Labour / Lib Dem MP's and Lords, he knows of!!!. Such as Frank Dobson, Alistair Darling, David Miliband to name a few.

I thought his reply to one of the posts in response to the link provided was one that sums up the state of play rather well. Somebody asked why Labour started the privatisation of the NHS. His reply:-

'Because they (Labour) also represented the market, shared the ideology and 'obtained the vested interests'

A very fair point to make in my opinion .